@clevelandrocks said:

Get over the draft its really not as loaded as you think take a dose of reality

I think you're looking at the situation from the wrong point of view. Take names and excitement level when the guy has the ball out of the equation. I think if you started a poll asking who is funner to watch, you would get Harrison. If you started a poll and asked football minds, not fans, who is more valuable to a football team, they'll take the 2nd year WR with great hands, good speed, and IQ who had great rookie production; over the undersized change-of-pace RB just about everytime.

Anyways, if we did get a 3rd rounder in return of course there is a risk involved in that or any draft pick, but its a deep draft blah blah blah, and the guys in charge are as good as it gets in the NFL. And before you can see my point, you would have to also believe that he is expendable. I don't think you will ever feel that way and that's fine. We're gonna have to just disagree on this. That's why I put it out there to see who else sees this situation like I do. Apparently nobody. But then again, very few people were with me on Brady not being good or that Holmgren would keep Mangini either. I'm just a nay-sayer that's all.

@mopaji said:

And what kind of question is... Would you rather have Harrison or any of our second rounders from last year? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove but I will answer. I would rather have two of our 2nd rounders from last year. Here's why. Momass looked really, really good as a rookie with no QB and serving as the #1. He looks like a real prospect and I expect really good things from him over the next few years. Also, WR takes longer to develop in the NFL than RBs do so I would rather not start that project over again. Again, its a harder position to replace. The same can be said for rookie LBs converting to a 3-4 with zero help from the secondary. RBs on teams that are committed to running the ball will always be successful. Harrison can get 1,000 yards on this team if he stays healthy. But so could Davis, Jennings or most anybody else. The bottom line is Harrison has trade value and really can be replaced. Can he go on and have a good career here? Yeah, but sstrengthening this roster as a whole by building through this draft seems like a better idea for this team which is so desperate for talent with a first year regime in charge.

RBs can be replaced unless you're talking about the top 5 in the league. SD is dumping LT and Sproles in the same year and starting from scratch. Indy and NYJ both gave rookies extensive playing time and are now dumping the vets because in less than one year, their new RBs are ready to carry the load. The best backs in the league get to that status within their 1st two years, generally. Its an easy position to draft and its easy to find a decent one in free agency. I just think we should maximize this incredibly deep draft without giving up too much. And as fun as Harrison is to watch run sometimes, he isn't too much to give up in order to flood this team with talent and be really set up for the future. But again, if he stays here, I'm fine with that too.

You basically just sound like a dude that's obsessed with the draft. So you're saying you would take momass over harrison. That's just silly. Start a poll and ask the board who they pick, hell email mangini and ask him who he'd pick. Anyone with a brain would take the proven commoditity over the unproven any day of the week. Not to mention that my point was out of all 3 2nd round picks only 1 even looks like he has potential. Would you take robiskie over harrison? Would you would rather have veikune riding the pine then have harrison ripping off huge runs? And these are SECOND ROUNDERS. and 2 of them suck! So you want to trade jerome for a 3rd? so we can have a 50% chance at some dude that doesn't make the team?? Your logic is terrible.

Get over the draft its really not as loaded as you think take a dose of reality

@thaak said:

So that being said, a 3rd rounder was brought up as what would be fair compensation for Harrison.

You made your comment, saying that equal compensation would be a 3rd rounder (or I believe a better approximation of your words, were that a 3rd rounder would give us the same thing that Harrison does).

If in context of the conversation, that isn't you implying that a 3rd rounder could replace Harrison, that you think if we were to trade him, we should do so now cause his stock will never be higher, that you'd be ok with getting a 3rd rounder for Harrison, then you really do need to figure out how to communicate better.

You're right. It is useful to take past comments into consideration when either reading or stating new ideas.

Past comments (which highly outnumber, as well as take precedent over, the comments made about Jerome Harrison being traded for a 3rd) have been made about the numerous 3rd round picks that we currently possess. Furthermore, past comments have also been made about the value of RB's taken in the 3rd and later rounds by comparison with those in the 1st or 2nd round. To add to that, past comments have also been made about the needs of the Cleveland Browns in relation to the RB situation, and whether or not it would be more beneficial for the franchise to look for an RB in either the early rounds or with a later pick if they, in fact, are looking for a runningback in the draft.

Taking all of those past comments into consideration, wouldn't it be more likely that I was simply stating we could find a runningback with one of our numerous third round picks, as opposed to hinting that we should be trading Jerome Harrison to someone for a third round pick. Also, taking into consideration that I rarely, if ever, allude to something I want, don't you think that it's more likely that I was simply saying what I actually meant. And, if we're to really dissect my personality as well as my posts over this fantastic Browns forum, we would find that I am a straightshooter. As stated before, I never allude. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. If I say that we could find a runningback in the third round with the same skill set as Jerome Harrison, I mean that we could find a runningback in the third round with the same skill set as Jerome Harrison. I'm not implying, alluding, hinting to, or subtly referencing the idea that Jerome Harrison should be traded for a third rounder. What I said is what I meant.

Here's a hint: stop trying to read in to what people say on an internet forum. Take things at face value. Nobody is trying to deceive you, or lie to you, nor are they hiding ulterior motives. It's a damn internet forum, for chrissake. I'm not your wife, hinting that you need to stop wearing that t-shirt that you've had since college. I'm a fellow Browns fan, telling you that I believe we could find a runningback in the 3rd round with the same skill set as Jerome Harrison. That's all I am. And that's all I'm saying. Take it or leave it, it doesn't really matter to me. Because that's my opinion.

And if none of that is suitable to you, perhaps you can go back to the Antonio Cromartie thread and read where I said the only trade I would consider for Jerome Harrison is a trade that involved us getting a viable CB that can step in and make an impact.

EDIT: Don't worry about going back to look, I'll just post it here to save time.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

No, seriously. I would trade Harrison for a good CB and nothing else. And that's without giving up anything less than a 5th rounder. I don't want to trade him, but we also have two other runningbacks on our roster, and this year's draft is decently full of RB's. I'm not saying I want us to draft an RB by any means, but if we were to trade Harrison (which I'm also not saying I would necessarily want us to do), this year would be the year to do it.

@clevelandrocks said:

Liking what Harrison does has nothing to do with wanting to stockpile picks in an excellent draft year. In fact, its why he has trade value in the first place. Bringing in Thomas Jones is because he still has a year left in him and he will come for a fraction of what NY was paying him and so he's well worth it. Have you forgotten that we still have James Davis and Jennings? Jones doesn't need to be our feature back. We need a veteran in the backfield nomatter what. Why not a guy with excellent vision, still has a burst through the hole, and somebody his teammates absalutely love? Not to mention he is in spectacular condition and barely touched the ball his first few years. And I never said Harrison was shit I just said he has his flaws. Flaws which lead me to believe he is a change-of-pace back and nothing more. And I question his durability because of his size.

And what kind of question is... Would you rather have Harrison or any of our second rounders from last year? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove but I will answer. I would rather have two of our 2nd rounders from last year. Here's why. Momass looked really, really good as a rookie with no QB and serving as the #1. He looks like a real prospect and I expect really good things from him over the next few years. Also, WR takes longer to develop in the NFL than RBs do so I would rather not start that project over again. Again, its a harder position to replace. The same can be said for rookie LBs converting to a 3-4 with zero help from the secondary. RBs on teams that are committed to running the ball will always be successful. Harrison can get 1,000 yards on this team if he stays healthy. But so could Davis, Jennings or most anybody else. The bottom line is Harrison has trade value and really can be replaced. Can he go on and have a good career here? Yeah, but sstrengthening this roster as a whole by building through this draft seems like a better idea for this team which is so desperate for talent with a first year regime in charge.

RBs can be replaced unless you're talking about the top 5 in the league. SD is dumping LT and Sproles in the same year and starting from scratch. Indy and NYJ both gave rookies extensive playing time and are now dumping the vets because in less than one year, their new RBs are ready to carry the load. The best backs in the league get to that status within their 1st two years, generally. Its an easy position to draft and its easy to find a decent one in free agency. I just think we should maximize this incredibly deep draft without giving up too much. And as fun as Harrison is to watch run sometimes, he isn't too much to give up in order to flood this team with talent and be really set up for the future. But again, if he stays here, I'm fine with that too.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Because if you honestly believe that's an inference, I'm going to have to watch you perform in daily life. It must be hilarious. I bet you think strippers like you, too.

You know, when having a discussion it becomes useful to be able to take past comments by everyone involved as context for new and current comments.

So that being said, a 3rd rounder was brought up as what would be fair compensation for Harrison.

You made your comment, saying that equal compensation would be a 3rd rounder (or I believe a better approximation of your words, were that a 3rd rounder would give us the same thing that Harrison does).

If in context of the conversation, that isn't you implying that a 3rd rounder could replace Harrison, that you think if we were to trade him, we should do so now cause his stock will never be higher, that you'd be ok with getting a 3rd rounder for Harrison, then you really do need to figure out how to communicate better.

@thaak said:

Do you honestly think that was an inference, or are you just trying to belittle me because you realize you were in the wrong?

Because if you honestly believe that's an inference, I'm going to have to watch you perform in daily life. It must be hilarious. I bet you think strippers like you, too.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

So this statement has been the basis of your argument against me this entire time? To think, I was actually worried that you knew what you were talking about.

What my aforementioned statement describes is us trading Jerome Harrison and using one of our multiple 3rd round picks to grab an RB. Nowhere in there did I say that we should trade him for a 3rd rounder.

As I said before, it may do you good to actually read the full statements, and not pick and choose what you want to hear.

If that wasn't an inference, then you need to learn better communication skills.

@mopaji said:

Look, at the start of last year most fans were on board with the idea that this team would get a major face-lift in 2010. That time is here and there are only a few ways to acheive that face-lift. The most practical and effective way of doing that is by trading away any player with any market value from the previous regime. One of those guys is Harrison. The others are Rogers, Williams, and Quinn.

i think if the coaching staff knows that davis or jennings are capapble replacements and we could get TWO DRAFT PICKS (one in at least the second round) i would do it in a heartbeat. i'm just afraid that we trade a player away that could be a 1,000+ yard a year rusher and draft a couple of bums that are out of the league in a couple of years. i know nothing is guaranteed in this league and drafting any player comes with it's risks, but why draft a player in the first place to trade him two years down the line? it's not like we don't have a multitude of picks already. and if it's a serious draft year trade down from #7 and get another pick. but if this team is on the cusp of being really good, stay and 7 and hope berry is there or one of the DTs. or maybe a RT.

@miktoxic said:

I get all that. I even get why fans want to see more of him. I even like him as a RB. And if it were any other other year I would say keep him. But this year is a HUUUUUGE draft year for the Browns moving forward and the draft is loaded with talent. I just want to take full advantage of this scenerio. And if it means trading away one of the few guys we have with any trade value to infuse some young talent in here, I'm all for it. Especially when this team is built to run and whoever is back there will do well. In a perfect world, we would send Jennings back to the practice squad, Sign T. Jones, Leon Washington, or some other FA back and develope Davis by rotating him with Jones all year. In the process, we would have two draft picks for J. Harrison and a very nicely built backfield. Is Harrison good, yes, can he help this team, yes, would I be happy with him staying here, yes, can his role be filled by somebody else for less money and in the process gain two draft picks in a very very deep draft, yup. And that really is the basis for this trade idea.

Look, at the start of last year most fans were on board with the idea that this team would get a major face-lift in 2010. That time is here and there are only a few ways to acheive that face-lift. The most practical and effective way of doing that is by trading away any player with any market value from the previous regime. One of those guys is Harrison. The others are Rogers, Williams, and Quinn.

@thaak said:

No? How could you? Just because it has the term "3rd round" in it? Did you just search my username and the keyword "3rd round" in order to make accusations against me?

So this statement has been the basis of your argument against me this entire time? To think, I was actually worried that you knew what you were talking about.

What my aforementioned statement describes is us trading Jerome Harrison and using one of our multiple 3rd round picks to grab an RB. Nowhere in there did I say that we should trade him for a 3rd rounder.

As I said before, it may do you good to actually read the full statements, and not pick and choose what you want to hear.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

So I can't infer that you'd be ok with a 3rd rounder for him based on this comment?

@jrb12711 said:

Thank you, at least somebody is capable at taking their emotions out of things for a half-second to look at something objectively.

@thaak said:

What the xxxx are you talking about? I'm sitting here, asking you to tell me when I have ever said that I was okay with a 3rd rounder for Harrison. I haven't said it out of either side of my mouth, because I've never said it at all. I literally have never said that. I don't know where you're getting this from, but you're wrong and you have been from the beginning.

I'm honestly starting to believe that you are crazy.

If I go by your reasoning, then I can say that you're saying you want LaDanian Tomlinson out of one side of your mouth and out of the other side you're saying you want Jerome Harrison. Since we're just making shit up now.

Once again, I have never said that I would take a 3rd rounder for Jerome Harrison.

Nor do I want to trade him, I'm only saying that if we were to trade him, now would be the time.

You people are delusional. You just pick and choose the things you want to read from posts and ignore the rest.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm just saying he hasn't proven himself to be a "baller" yet.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. I'm not saying that we should trade Harrison. I am saying that, if we were to trade Harrison, now would be the best year to do so.

Once again, I'm not saying that we should trade Harrison. I am saying that, if we were to trade Harrison, now would be the best year to do so.

He is a hell of a lot more known than any rookie we might draft.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

So your statement doesn't stand. And, once again, I never said I'd be okay with taking a third rounder for him.

I don't see how you can infer that I would take Harrison for a third when I never said anything of the sort. I've clearly stated my stance on the subject multiple times, so if you're going to reference me then you can reference what I've actually said. Not what you think I'd do.

Dude, how can you sit there and say you’d be ok with a 3rd rounder for Harrison out one side of your mouth, and out the other say, I wouldn’t do it and then say that I can’t infer that you’d be ok with a 3rd rounder for Harrison? You make no sense whatsoever. Your word is meaningless in this conversation from now on.

@mopaji said:

I'm starting to see the Brady Quinn complex come out. A lot of fans ignoring the team's situation and are staying fixated on the chance to say "I told you so! I told you he was good".

listen, i don't think any browns fans on this forum wants for the team to be bad or make bad decisions. but when has JH really had a chance to show us anything besides the last half of last year? coaches, so-called gms and the hierarchy most likely always bow to a player that in the past has been good or great and gets paid top dollar, but now is over the hill (in the nba look at mcgrady) but you have to play them cuz you are paying him that top dollar.........and he sucks. aka jamal lewis. two years ago you'd be lucky to see harrison get 10 touches a game, and then they were always in spots where the defense knew we were gonna run and are O line couldn't block for ruth buzzi. hey, we've got a great spot in this year's draft at #7, why talk about trading a guy that was are only bright spot on offense besides cribbs? we aren't talking about trading him are we?

@riffer-x said:

He's ready, he broke out, capitalize on him don't give him away. The kid can ball.

Harrison isn't a known entity. All he's proven to me is that he can run against bad defenses when we have a good offensive line. That's not proving anything, in my book. I would be more content with his abilities if he performed against teams like San Diego and Pittsburgh. The only game he surprised me in was the early season Cincinatti game.

I'm not saying he's bad. I'm just saying he hasn't proven himself to be a "baller" yet.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer. I'm not saying that we should trade Harrison. I am saying that, if we were to trade Harrison, now would be the best year to do so.

Once again, I'm not saying that we should trade Harrison. I am saying that, if we were to trade Harrison, now would be the best year to do so.

@thaak said:

If you would, then my statement stands. I never said you said anything exactly. Just what you have already said you'd be ok with.

When you blatantly imply something, then my stating the obvious inference is not putting words in your mouth.

I would not.

So your statement doesn't stand. And, once again, I never said I'd be okay with taking a third rounder for him.

I don't see how you can infer that I would take Harrison for a third when I never said anything of the sort. I've clearly stated my stance on the subject multiple times, so if you're going to reference me then you can reference what I've actually said. Not what you think I'd do.