@blowe said:

Stuff happens Smith won the job and got sick and Flacco did well and that is that!

Flacco was a first round pick and got the job and no team benches a first round pick unless he starts stinking it up. It is sorta like benching your kid who is playing well!

Smith has never had a chance so far in the NFL. He was a winner in college, I would be willing to get rid of either of our QB's for him.

@hoorta said:

Smith is really short for an NFL qb- and I don't remember enough of his OSU days to comment on his accuracy and velocity.

IMHO, if the Browns want a project, they're far better served using one of their extra third round picks on one of the second tier guys that's sure to be there. LOL, even Tebow. I see guys like Pike or LeFevour having way more upside than Smith.

That is, as they say, the rub. Does a guy that is young, who has only thrown 89 passes in his 3 year career rate equal consideration as a rookie? You have to look at it as if Troy Smith were available in the NFL draft this year. How would he rate against the likes of Pike of LeFevour. It all depends on the evaluation, and wishes of the front office type making the decision, in this case, Heckert and Holmgren primarily.

If I were evaluting the three on equal footing, I am not sure that Pike or LeFevour would grade out better than Smith. (I am not sure they wouldn't either. I am not qualified)

@hoorta said:

Now I am not sure exactly wich side I want to fall on with this issue, I have some positives and negatives for both arguements!

With that being said I don't agree with the fact that if they thought he had potential they wouldn't let him go for so little. QB is a leadership role, even for your back ups. When they step in to a huddle or are called upon for duty, they must command the role as a leader. If you have an unhappy leader in your ranks, he is not going to be able to garner the confidence of those around him to move the masses! I think Baltimore sees an unhappy potential leader and is capitalizing on opportunity to obtain something for him and prevent clubhouse issues. Just seems like a smart decision on their part.

@miktoxic said:

but i also agree with some others here in why waste out time with another mediocre qb who might get better (or not) or just concentrate on drafting someone who is better (even at a collegiate level) than smith is now? it wouldn't be too hard to do.

With as many 5th round picks we have in this draft, using one to grab Smith would not hurt the team at all. And Smith may turn out to be something...he may not. But what have you really lost inthe process? As for the Smith vs Flacco debate...Yes, the only reason Flacco started over Smith during his rookie year was that Troy Smith got very sick. But to say that Flacco would not have been the starter ever because Smith was there is just ignorant. Flacco was drafted to be B-more's starting QB for years to come. Troy Smith, had his health not been an issue, would have started Flacco's rookie season as the starter. But he would not likely have kept Flacco from the starting job beyond that season.

@hoorta said:

i agree 100%!

@mopaji said:

I HATE college football so I'm not a honk in anyway. But you offer your latest available 5th round pick and get a pretty solid young player with a good coach and Holmgren. Its clear Baltimore is doing him a favor by tendering him at a 5th round. They want to let him go because he is disgruntled and a 5th round tender will ensure he can leave and they can still get something in return. Its not a bad idea at all and it wouldn't matter if he played in Europe, it isn't a bad move on any level.

Which was my point- if the Ravens thought Smith had real potential, they would have tendered him higher instead of letting him go for a sack of seeds.

Smith is really short for an NFL qb- and I don't remember enough of his OSU days to comment on his accuracy and velocity.

IMHO, if the Browns want a project, they're far better served using one of their extra third round picks on one of the second tier guys that's sure to be there. LOL, even Tebow. I see guys like Pike or LeFevour having way more upside than Smith.

@mopaji said:

I HATE college football so I'm not a honk in anyway. But you offer your latest available 5th round pick and get a pretty solid young player with a good coach and Holmgren. Its clear Baltimore is doing him a favor by tendering him at a 5th round. They want to let him go because he is disgruntled and a 5th round tender will ensure he can leave and they can still get something in return. Its not a bad idea at all and it wouldn't matter if he played in Europe, it isn't a bad move on any level.

actually it took 2 seconds as i cut and pasted from an nfl.com page. btw, read the whole thread and you can see i never said i wouldn't take him for a 5th rounder. i'm making the argument that smith is not better than flacco. some have said the only reason flacco is the starter is because smith got sick. bullshit.

but i also agree with some others here in why waste out time with another mediocre qb who might get better (or not) or just concentrate on drafting someone who is better (even at a collegiate level) than smith is now? it wouldn't be too hard to do.

@miktoxic said:

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

1 Drew Brees, QB NOR 514 363 70.6 4388 8.54 75 34 11 20 109.6 293

2 Brett Favre, QB MIN 531 363 68.4 4202 7.91 63 33 7 34 107.2 263

3 Philip Rivers, QB SDG 486 317 65.2 4254 8.75 81 28 9 25 104.4 266

4 Aaron Rodgers, QB GNB 541 350 64.7 4434 8.20 83 30 7 50 103.2 277

5 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 506 337 66.6 4328 8.55 60 26 12 50 100.5 289

6 Peyton Manning, QB IND 571 393 68.8 4500 7.88 80 33 16 10 99.9 281

7 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 583 396 67.9 4770 8.18 72 29 15 25 98.6 298

8 Tony Romo, QB DAL 550 347 63.1 4483 8.15 80 26 9 34 97.6 280

9 Tom Brady, QB NWE 565 371 65.7 4398 7.78 81 28 13 16 96.2 275

10 Kurt Warner, QB ARI 513 339 66.1 3753 7.32 45 26 14 24 93.2 250

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

11 Eli Manning, QB NYG 509 317 62.3 4021 7.90 74 27 14 30 93.1 251

12 Donovan McNabb, QB PHI 443 267 60.3 3553 8.02 60 22 10 35 92.9 254

13 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 499 315 63.1 3613 7.24 72 21 12 36 88.9 226

14 Kyle Orton, QB DEN 541 336 62.1 3802 7.03 87 21 12 29 86.8 238

15 Jason Campbell, QB WAS 507 327 64.5 3618 7.14 84 20 15 43 86.4 226

16 Carson Palmer, QB CIN 466 282 60.5 3094 6.64 73 21 13 26 83.6 193

17 David Garrard, QB JAC 516 314 60.9 3597 6.97 63 15 10 42 83.5 225

18 Vince Young, QB TEN 259 152 58.7 1879 7.26 66 10 7 9 82.8 157

19 Alex Smith, QB SFO 372 225 60.5 2350 6.32 73 18 12 22 81.5 214

20 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 451 263 58.3 2916 6.47 90 22 14 19 80.9 208

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

21 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 555 336 60.5 3666 6.61 71 27 26 35 76.8 229

22 Chad Henne, QB MIA 451 274 60.8 2878 6.38 67 12 14 26 75.2 206

23 Matt Hasselbeck, QB SEA 488 293 60.0 3029 6.21 53 17 17 32 75.1 216

24 Marc Bulger, QB STL 247 140 56.7 1469 5.95 50 5 6 14 70.7 163

25 Matt Cassel, QB KAN 493 271 55.0 2924 5.93 61 16 16 42 69.9 195

26 Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB BUF 227 127 55.9 1422 6.26 98 9 10 21 69.7 142

27 Brady Quinn, QB CLE 256 136 53.1 1339 5.23 59 8 7 19 67.2 134

28 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 364 196 53.8 2444 6.71 65 12 20 26 63.0 163

29 Matthew Stafford, QB DET 377 201 53.3 2267 6.01 75 13 20 24 61.0 227

30 Josh Freeman, QB TAM 291 159 54.6 1857 6.38 42 10 18 20 59.9 186

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

31 Jake Delhomme, QB CAR 321 178 55.5 2015 6.28 52 8 18 23 59.4 183

32 JaMarcus Russell, QB OAK 246 120 48.8 1287 5.23 86 3 11 33 50.0 107

QB Rating

Smith

21.3

League Average

70.2

League Leader

113.4

athensbuck: put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. isn't athens close to wv? exactly.

Wow, you wasted a lot of time compiling a list that demonstrates just how little Troy Smith has played. You also wasted a lot of time losing perspective on this whole thing. What can you get in the 5th round? Depth. You may as well take a very hungry young QB who has already been in the league a few years.

I HATE college football so I'm not a honk in anyway. But you offer your latest available 5th round pick and get a pretty solid young player with a good coach and Holmgren. Its clear Baltimore is doing him a favor by tendering him at a 5th round. They want to let him go because he is disgruntled and a 5th round tender will ensure he can leave and they can still get something in return. Its not a bad idea at all and it wouldn't matter if he played in Europe, it isn't a bad move on any level.

@the-gipper said:

And honestly, I am not so sure that with some tutelage from Holmgren that BQ may not still be the answer here. So many people it seems that were so ready to jump on his bandwagon now seem ready to jump off it. (You'd think they were local Steeler fans). I, personally, am willing to be a little more patient. This would obviously be a make or break year for him, but I would still be willing to give him the reins.

(Since it is St. Patrick's month I have now made a resolution to do most of my posts in green)

Quarterback Rating Leaders - Qualified

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

1 Drew Brees, QB NOR 514 363 70.6 4388 8.54 75 34 11 20 109.6 293

2 Brett Favre, QB MIN 531 363 68.4 4202 7.91 63 33 7 34 107.2 263

3 Philip Rivers, QB SDG 486 317 65.2 4254 8.75 81 28 9 25 104.4 266

4 Aaron Rodgers, QB GNB 541 350 64.7 4434 8.20 83 30 7 50 103.2 277

5 Ben Roethlisberger, QB PIT 506 337 66.6 4328 8.55 60 26 12 50 100.5 289

6 Peyton Manning, QB IND 571 393 68.8 4500 7.88 80 33 16 10 99.9 281

7 Matt Schaub, QB HOU 583 396 67.9 4770 8.18 72 29 15 25 98.6 298

8 Tony Romo, QB DAL 550 347 63.1 4483 8.15 80 26 9 34 97.6 280

9 Tom Brady, QB NWE 565 371 65.7 4398 7.78 81 28 13 16 96.2 275

10 Kurt Warner, QB ARI 513 339 66.1 3753 7.32 45 26 14 24 93.2 250

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

11 Eli Manning, QB NYG 509 317 62.3 4021 7.90 74 27 14 30 93.1 251

12 Donovan McNabb, QB PHI 443 267 60.3 3553 8.02 60 22 10 35 92.9 254

13 Joe Flacco, QB BAL 499 315 63.1 3613 7.24 72 21 12 36 88.9 226

14 Kyle Orton, QB DEN 541 336 62.1 3802 7.03 87 21 12 29 86.8 238

15 Jason Campbell, QB WAS 507 327 64.5 3618 7.14 84 20 15 43 86.4 226

16 Carson Palmer, QB CIN 466 282 60.5 3094 6.64 73 21 13 26 83.6 193

17 David Garrard, QB JAC 516 314 60.9 3597 6.97 63 15 10 42 83.5 225

18 Vince Young, QB TEN 259 152 58.7 1879 7.26 66 10 7 9 82.8 157

19 Alex Smith, QB SFO 372 225 60.5 2350 6.32 73 18 12 22 81.5 214

20 Matt Ryan, QB ATL 451 263 58.3 2916 6.47 90 22 14 19 80.9 208

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

21 Jay Cutler, QB CHI 555 336 60.5 3666 6.61 71 27 26 35 76.8 229

22 Chad Henne, QB MIA 451 274 60.8 2878 6.38 67 12 14 26 75.2 206

23 Matt Hasselbeck, QB SEA 488 293 60.0 3029 6.21 53 17 17 32 75.1 216

24 Marc Bulger, QB STL 247 140 56.7 1469 5.95 50 5 6 14 70.7 163

25 Matt Cassel, QB KAN 493 271 55.0 2924 5.93 61 16 16 42 69.9 195

26 Ryan Fitzpatrick, QB BUF 227 127 55.9 1422 6.26 98 9 10 21 69.7 142

27 Brady Quinn, QB CLE 256 136 53.1 1339 5.23 59 8 7 19 67.2 134

28 Mark Sanchez, QB NYJ 364 196 53.8 2444 6.71 65 12 20 26 63.0 163

29 Matthew Stafford, QB DET 377 201 53.3 2267 6.01 75 13 20 24 61.0 227

30 Josh Freeman, QB TAM 291 159 54.6 1857 6.38 42 10 18 20 59.9 186

RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RATE YDS/G

31 Jake Delhomme, QB CAR 321 178 55.5 2015 6.28 52 8 18 23 59.4 183

32 JaMarcus Russell, QB OAK 246 120 48.8 1287 5.23 86 3 11 33 50.0 107

QB Rating

Smith

21.3

League Average

70.2

League Leader

113.4

athensbuck: put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. isn't athens close to wv? exactly.

@the-gipper said:

And honestly, I am not so sure that with some tutelage from Holmgren that BQ may not still be the answer here. So many people it seems that were so ready to jump on his bandwagon now seem ready to jump off it. (You'd think they were local Steeler fans). I, personally, am willing to be a little more patient. This would obviously be a make or break year for him, but I would still be willing to give him the reins.

(Since it is St. Patrick's month I have now made a resolution to do most of my posts in green)

I really liked what i saw later in the season with Quinn managing the game. I also still love his willingness to work. The guy gets after it and considering all the negativity and what have you, i found that to be a positive trait. I just question whether BQ will EVER be able to consistently hit a long ball. He can throw it....i don't question that .....but his accuracy is ALL over the place. Some of that could be confidence but i have a feeling, the reason his stock dropped in the draft is EXACTLY for this reason.

I can see Zombo and i agree in terms of approaches with the QB. You've got better talent out there to grab and you have to see if you can snag one of those guys. Of course, it could prove to be another Jeff Garcia , Dilfer case...but i think our team is more well rounded now and the talent i'm eyeing is greater than Dilfers and Garcia's when we got them.

Zombo said:

Smith seems to me to be a guy that is not going to be any better than the guy we already have from the same draft, Brady Quinn. Both of them are backup material, you are not going to buld a franchise around either one right now. My plan would be go out and get a vet starter (Mcnabb, Bulger, Delhomme, etc) and draft a prospect (Bradford, Claussen, McCoy, etc) and REALLY put your resources into the position, because it is the most important position and we are competing with studs Palmer, Flacco and Rapeburger for years to come.

Even if you keep Quinn, hoping he can still develop into a franchise stud, then you pair him with a veteran or an intriguing fraft pick ... not a Troy Smith. Then we are sitting there with two younger guys we HOPE are any good ... sound like last year and the very thing we are trying to get away from?

We have cornered the market on young mediocre QBs. Let's get a proven winner and/or a young stud and quit HOPING a guy like Quinn or Smith is the answer. We have to aim higher at this position, it is critical.

Zombo

I am not personally convinced that Flacco is all that much of a stud, but he does seem to have the confidence of the Ravens, so he will be there and the Browns will need to compete with him.

And honestly, I am not so sure that with some tutelage from Holmgren that BQ may not still be the answer here. So many people it seems that were so ready to jump on his bandwagon now seem ready to jump off it. (You'd think they were local Steeler fans). I, personally, am willing to be a little more patient. This would obviously be a make or break year for him, but I would still be willing to give him the reins.

(Since it is St. Patrick's month I have now made a resolution to do most of my posts in green)

@the-gipper said:

What is your solution? Pick up one of the available FAs (restricted or unrestricted), or draft a rookie?..or both

Good question. I think you need to pick up one of the free agents AND draft a youngster....if those are the only options we are mentioning. I honestly would approach the trade angle of adding either McNabb, Kolb or Hassleback while drafting some young Qb to take over the reigns. I wouldn't be upset IF we were to give a 5th rounder for Troy's services as i think he's still got some upside. I just don't think i'd personally go that route.

We've got choices and we need to take a look at them all. I want to develop a good young arm but that seems to be a difficult thing to do sometimes. We certainly aren't the only team struggling with it.

@bag-o-browns said:

Whoever said Jason Campbell too, please no. I've seen enough of him to understand he's a guy who just will not improve any more than he's shown.

OK, well, the question is: If they do as presumed and release DA, then the Browns would only have 2 QBs on the roster, Quinn and Ratliff. They would need at least one or two other QBs on the roster.

What is your solution? Pick up one of the available FAs (restricted or unrestricted), or draft a rookie?..or both

Whoever said Jason Campbell too, please no. I've seen enough of him to understand he's a guy who just will not improve any more than he's shown.

Zombo said:

Do you guys want to win or do you want to collect Ohio momentos?

Zombo

Fair point. All the guys that want us to go after Smith may be the same ones that say we should dump Quinn. At this point, I don't think Quinn should be dumped.

But, since it seems clear that DA will probably not be here, another QB seems essential, at least as a backup, if not as a competitor for the starting job.

There may be 25 guys out there that could be brought in here in that event. None of them seem like a bright shining star. Smith is simply one of those guys in that mix. Maybe no better or worse than any of the others.

@yosemitejam said:

Yea, and that is probably what they said about John Unitas when he was cut by the Steelers when someone may have compared him to Sid Luckman or somebody.

And you completely missed my point: I am saying simply that because a QB may not be able to make it with one team doesn't mean that he couldn't prosper or excel with another team. Even if you don't project him as a superstar, it doesn't mean he couldn't be a productive QB elsewhere.

So maybe he isn't going to be a Unitas, Steve Young, Dawson, etc., i.e. a Hall of Famer. But it is possible that he could be like these guys who were good, productive starting QBs in new places:

Jake Delhomme: 2 years as a backup with New Orleans before moving to Carolina and going to the Super Bowl

Brad Johnson: several years with the Vikings and Redskins before going to the Bucs and a SB

Ron Jaworski: 2 years as a backup with the Rams before going to the Eagles and the SB

Matt Hasselbeck: 2 years as a backup with the Packers before going to the Seahawks and the SB

Trent Dilfer: 6 years with Tampa before going to Baltimore

Even our own Frank Ryan spent two years as a backup with the Rams before coming to the Browns.

These guys are not superstars, but became good, winning QBs after several years in backup roles primarily. So, all I am saying is that it CAN be done.

@the-gipper said:

(Do the names Brett Favre, Jim Plunkett, Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Drew Brees, Len Dawson, Johhnny Unitas, etc. etc. etc. sound familiar? I am not saying this will happen with Smith, but it has happened with many others in the past, so don't discount the possibility.)

You must be delirious to mention the great John Unitas in the same breath as an untested, undersized, misemployed qb who won't even be playing in the professional sunday league much longer. Slap yourself

(Do the names Brett Favre, Jim Plunkett, Kurt Warner, Steve Young, Drew Brees, Len Dawson, Johhnny Unitas, etc. etc. etc. sound familiar? I am not saying this will happen with Smith, but it has happened with many others in the past, so don't discount the possibility.)

again, where do you get this idea from that he is a quality backup? he has shown no reason to believe that. ohio state fans need to stop thinking he is going to be great, yet he only had one good year during college. in case your forgetting (and i'm guessing not a lot of people knew this) quinn had better stats his senior season than smith did, with less talent around him to boot. smith just had a better running game and a much better defense and we all know how he has turned out. if smith had gone to a different school would everybody still be advocating that he came here? no, he would be a punch line. if it weren't for the fact that he went to o-state then nobody would want him, just like nobody wants jason white. smith is nothing, and will be nothing.

@athensbuck26 said:

he very well indeed beat out flacco

i know you wont admit facts but its just the truth not S&G blinders but hey glad to see you jumped on another screen name to agree with yourself

if Smith doesnt get sick Flacco never see's the field in his career

That's just goofy. Smith has 89 attempts in a 3 year career and you're ready to say he's better than Flacco?

@athensbuck26 said:

he very well indeed beat out flacco

i know you wont admit facts but its just the truth not S&G blinders but hey glad to see you jumped on another screen name to agree with yourself

if Smith doesnt get sick Flacco never see's the field in his career

Whoa- I'm as big an Ohio State homer as anyone- but think for a minute- if the Ravens thought Troy had starting qb potential- they sure as hell wouldn't have tendered him low. Second round tender is $1.8 million- dirt cheap for an NFL starting qb. At 6'0" you're entitled to believe Smith has Drew Brees potential, but Ozzie doesn't think he's worth it.

Secondly, I'm opposed to giving the Ratbirds anything to pick up a player.

@bigbrownsfan said:

Smith STILL hasn't beat out Flacco... PERIOD! Oh, in preseason, did he? Wow, really? Who the F cares about pre-season?

If Troy was that great, he would have unseated Flacco by now. Oh, oops, my bad... he HAS NOT.

God's sakes get over the damn Scarlet and Gray blinders..., if he were from New Mexico State or Tulane or San Jose State you wouldn't even bring his name INTO the discussion. Period.

Wait, I know.... let's get Daryll Clark. I mean, I am a PSU fan, so, he must be good!! AND>>..... he is from Ohio!!! OMG... we cant miss. Draft him. Third round.

NOT.

yawn

he very well indeed beat out flacco

i know you wont admit facts but its just the truth not S&G blinders but hey glad to see you jumped on another screen name to agree with yourself

if Smith doesnt get sick Flacco never see's the field in his career

@athensbuck26 said:

No, here's a fact:

Smith STILL hasn't beat out Flacco... PERIOD! Oh, in preseason, did he? Wow, really? Who the F cares about pre-season?

If Troy was that great, he would have unseated Flacco by now. Oh, oops, my bad... he HAS NOT.

God's sakes get over the damn Scarlet and Gray blinders..., if he were from New Mexico State or Tulane or San Jose State you wouldn't even bring his name INTO the discussion. Period.

Wait, I know.... let's get Daryll Clark. I mean, I am a PSU fan, so, he must be good!! AND>>..... he is from Ohio!!! OMG... we cant miss. Draft him. Third round.

NOT.