secondly, thank you for proving my point.

if one would be so myopic to simply look at the stats that say ben was taking sacks, hits and hurries at the frenzied rate, one would conclude that the OL wasn't doing its job. but in reality, we know that its a bit more complicated than that.

then you choose to disregard that logic which you so aptly apply to your team, when forming your "opinion" of ben watson. he lost passes due to an evolving offense, but you simply see his stats and say he's done. GTFO with that shit if you really wanna talk football, and show some consistency outside of black and urine glasses.

capishe?

Rorbotron said:

TRANSLATION: I took a bus trip once to the city of Kent, Ohio and was the first in my family to step onto a college campus. That evening my ma baked me a mud pie in celebration.

@the-gipper said:

Western PA. 20 minutes outside of Pittsburgh. I was born and raised in Pittsburgh and received a scholarship to Mercyhurt College in Erie, PA. I actually had a ex gf follow me there and seeing as it was a relatively small school and one that prides itself on strong atheltics I went because I felt that was the best fit for me. I didn't want to be a "number" so to speak when sitting in class and I wasn't. I'll spare you the gory details but my gf became a glorified stalker and made things sorta difficult. My current gf who at met a Mercyhurst also on a scholarship but for ballet transferred to Kent State. I was prepared to just transfer to Pitt but went to visit Jess and my mom suggested I use at as a suedo college visit seeing as I was looking for a place to transfer. I met with my department head and really hit it off. I liked the direction of the program and it was a bigger school the opposite of Mercyhurst so I transferred. Soooo I graduated from Kent State and my gf and I have now been together 8 years. Time to get married lol.

Soooo I definitely got in to arguments on a daily basis during the season and occasionally in the offseason if I'd wear something Steeler related. Never anything terrible heated, at least outside the bar environment and like I said some of my best friends are Stains diehards.

Oh and Choco hasn't the "sack theory" been beaten to death around here? Everyone knows that Ben extends plays and holds on to the ball. The consequence of that is sacks but the benefit is also enormous plays so you take the good with that bad. I don't believe it's going to be the same issue this year but we'll see how the absense of Holmes effects things. I believe Wallace steps in nicely and the core is at least faster now across the board. The running game should certainly improve and it wasn't poor last year. Soooo if the Steelers do as they've said and re-commit themselves to "smash mouth football" Big Ben will have more time to do what he does when he does actually drop back to pass.

Rorbotron said:

Oh and it's posters like you that bring the "troll" out in me. I'm more than capable of constructive/intelligent conversation. It's just way to much fun playing with you. Unfortunately you aren't smart enough to keep up. I just need to bring it down to your level a little bit.

So? Just where are you from? I assumed as a Steeler fan that you are from Western Pa. That is where good honest Steeler fans come from, after all.

@mopaji said:

And I don't want TO either. I expect to see one of our tendered guys dealt in order to bring in a starting, veteren WR.

The problem is there isn't many good veteran WRs who are FAs or available from teams to be dealt, the only guys I can really think of are Torry Holt and Muhsin Muhammad, but I think T.O is still way better than both of those guys.

There wasn't any reports of T.O talking badly about the management or players in Buffalo, so if you guys just stop watching ESPN for 10 seconds then you'll realize he's matured a lot and would play a lot better with a QB who can throw it farther(and more accurately) than Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I think the only thing stopping us from getting T.O is possibly Tom Heckert and his anecdotes of how bad T.O was during the philly days and just his overall bad experience with him, so due to that we probably wouldn't get him, even though from a talent standpoint we should.

And I'm still rolling over a steeler fan claiming he not only went to "college"...but that he also "graduated".

Classic...50+ sacks snatch. Explain that one away...how your ol will be fine...

@gmp said:

Ben Watson...?????????40 year old Ben Watson...Wasn't he catching balls for Jim Plunkett back when? Go to a fantasy Draft and see how long it takes a Ben Watson to get drafted on a fantasy team....bring your sleeping bag...!

T.O???????..well how'd that work out in Buffalo??.....would be a nice addtion to a Ravens, Patriots, kind of team..but not in Cleveland...

I admire all the positive talk of wins this year...but really?...look at that schedule...I can only see 4 wins tops on that...

I think next year 2012, will be an 8 and 8 year...the slow climb will begin then.......

Looks like another year of yardwork at 1pm Sundays

Ben Watson is under 30 years old; 29 to be exact. And if you look at fantasy numbers to scout actual NFL players, then you really shouldn't bother posting on here. Watson's numbers are low because New England runs 4 to 5 WR sets, not because he's bad. It just turns out, the TE in NE is basically useless outside of the red zone. He has really good speed, great hands, and he can block. He is an instant upgrade and still has 5 quality years left in him. Harrison had about 3 really good games and although I want him dealt before it's too late, he had more than one good game.

And I don't want TO either. I expect to see one of our tendered guys dealt in order to bring in a starting, veteren WR.

@gmp said:

Ben Watson...?????????40 year old Ben Watson...Wasn't he catching balls for Jim Plunkett back when? Go to a fantasy Draft and see how long it takes a Ben Watson to get drafted on a fantasy team....bring your sleeping bag...!

T.O???????..well how'd that work out in Buffalo??.....would be a nice addtion to a Ravens, Patriots, kind of team..but not in Cleveland...

I admire all the positive talk of wins this year...but really?...look at that schedule...I can only see 4 wins tops on that...

I think next year 2012, will be an 8 and 8 year...the slow climb will begin then.......

Looks like another year of yardwork at 1pm Sundays

T.O had Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him, here he would have Delhomme who loves to throw it down field(for better or for worse), he'd be good here.

I think you lost right when you start bringing in fantasy football into this argument, fantasy football has absolutely nothing to do with real football, and the majority of the time no one plays in IDP leagues anyway.

Rorbotron get out and go post on the steelers threads idiot, you're lucky the mods here allow you here whereas on the steeler forums, Browns fans get banned right away. You guys are gonna be horrible next season and I hope we sweep your garbage team, Holmgren must hate the steelers too after the refs gave you that superbowl in 05(though you rightfully won against the Cardinals).

@speedyd900rr said:

Also are you talking about QB pressure like those 8 sacks they had on Ben last game they played? Apparently pissburgh didn't come prepared to play even though they're season was on the line. My guess is the quarterback was to busy thinking about the trouble he would get in if the girl he got drunk the night before would remember he raped her when she passed out. What do you think?

Why do I feel like you have a jealous little brother complex? And trauma early in life? College? How old do you think I am exactly? I graduated college 4 years ago. I'll be 28 in September so no I didn't suffer Browns inflicted trauma early in life. I didn't realize they were capable of inflicting trauma on anyone to be honest. As far as Cribbs is concerned I could really care less. I certainly wasn't friends with him mostly because he was always getting in to trouble dealing weed etc and honestly I didn't go to many Kent State football games because they were terrible. Basketball games on the other hand plenty. All anyone ever did at the football games was get hammered and while I did we'd usually just tail gate and end up at home. Watching them get massacred week after week didn't really appeal to me. You really are a sad individual. Your attempts at insulting me are insulting themselves. Sucks being such a dip sh.it doesn't it? Either way can't wait for the season to start. The Browns had a nice draft, but so did the Steelers. We'll have our franchise QB back in time for the "shelacking" and even if he isn't back in the line up by then, Dixon can certainly handle the task.

Oh and it's posters like you that bring the "troll" out in me. I'm more than capable of constructive/intelligent conversation. It's just way to much fun playing with you. Unfortunately you aren't smart enough to keep up. I just need to bring it down to your level a little bit.

Rorbotron said:

So you are a bandwagon steeler fan who chose the squeelers because of some bad trama suffered early in your life by a Browns fan. The truth finally comes out, besides I can already tell by the way you troll these forums night and day that you were to busy jerking it to gay porn and to afraid of getting your ass handed to you that you would just sit in your room all night rather then attend the football games. Btw, just cause you went to Kent state where Cribbs played QB doesn't mean you know anything.

Rorbotron said:

Just be ready for relentless QB pressure, especially with Troy back and healthy.

Also are you talking about QB pressure like those 8 sacks they had on Ben last game they played? Apparently pissburgh didn't come prepared to play even though they're season was on the line. My guess is the quarterback was to busy thinking about the trouble he would get in if the girl he got drunk the night before would remember he raped her when she passed out. What do you think?

@choco said:

Like the 50+ sacks that horrible ol of yours gave up right? Oh bit its the stools, so you try to be objective. So which is it?

Ben Watson doesn't block so no there isn't. I'm also readily aware there is more to the game of football than just numbers. Look at Heath Miller one of the best tight ends in the league. Last season was the first season he was actually used to a greater capacity in the air attack. Soo no Ben Watson is just numbers and they are numbers he hasn't been putting up. Dude doesn't block.

Like the 50+ sacks that horrible ol of yours gave up right? Oh bit its the stools, so you try to be objective. So which is it?

@choco said:

And did someone teally say that fantasy drafting slot is an indicator of success?

Wow...how Retarded can one be....no offense to anyone with a mental handicap

Look at his stats. If we're talking from a purely numbers stand point the fantasy football correlation is very relevant. Fact of the matter is Ben Watson even when the Pats didn't have Randy Moss didn't put up gody numbers. His first full season was last year and his role was pretty minimal. He also didn't catch on until the tail end. The most grabs he's had as a TE happened in 2006 when I believe he had around 50 grabs for roughly 600 yards. Low TD numbers. I don't know who you think you have in Watson. He's certainly a athlete with some wheels but he's lost a step. Who knows he may put up solid numbers in the Stains offense if he's the focal point but he's not Gates, Gonzo etc. He's a mid range TE the Patriots were happy to unload. If I'm being honest look over the supposed starting roster for the Browns this year. How many of those guys were even drafted by Cleveland? Not many. You build through the draft fellas. You haven't exactly done a great job in that department until this year SOOO maybe it's a sign of things to come. Until then it's a patch work roster plenty are begging for a 8-8 or better record. Something I sincerely doubt occurs. If i'm being honest.

And did someone teally say that fantasy drafting slot is an indicator of success?

Wow...how Retarded can one be....no offense to anyone with a mental handicap

2 Sun. Sep. 19 vs. Chiefs 1:00 PM- W

3 Sun. Sep. 26 at Ravens 1:00 PM- L

4 Sun. Oct. 03 vs. Bengals 1:00 PM- W

5 Sun. Oct. 10 vs. Falcons 1:00 PM- L

6 Sun. Oct. 17 at Steelers 1:00 PM- W

7 Sun. Oct. 24 at Saints 1:00 PM- L

8 BYE

9 Sun. Nov. 07 vs. Patriots 1:00 PM- L

10 Sun. Nov. 14 vs. Jets 1:00 PM- L

11 Sun. Nov. 21 at Jaguars 1:00 PM- W

12 Sun. Nov. 28 vs. Panthers 1:00 PM- W

13 Sun. Dec. 05 at Dolphins 1:00 PM- L

14 Sun. Dec. 12 at Bills 1:00 PM- W

15 Sun. Dec. 19 at Bengals 1:00 PM- W

16 Sun. Dec. 26 vs. Ravens 1:00 PM- L

17 Sun. Jan. 02 vs. Steelers 1:00 PM-W

9-7

@diehardbrownsfan said:

No, No, No....

I just try to tell it like it is.....Do you see games on this schedule that I'm not looking at?....

Do you see wins in Pitts, Balt, NO NE Jets, Falcons, and on and on?...

If you do..then you my friend are the one who is not looking at this football team with reality.....

I applaud your optimism, but the bottom line is...read my previous post about what they have and who they drafted, and you'll soon see things my way.....

Spoken like the true Gimpster.

2 Sun. Sep. 19 vs. Chiefs 1:00 PM- Win

3 Sun. Sep. 26 at Ravens 1:00 PM- Lose

4 Sun. Oct. 03 vs. Bengals 1:00 PM- Win

5 Sun. Oct. 10 vs. Falcons 1:00 PM- Win

6 Sun. Oct. 17 at Steelers 1:00 PM- Win

7 Sun. Oct. 24 at Saints 1:00 PM- Lose

8 BYE

9 Sun. Nov. 07 vs. Patriots 1:00 PM- Lose

10 Sun. Nov. 14 vs. Jets 1:00 PM- Win

11 Sun. Nov. 21 at Jaguars 1:00 PM- Win

12 Sun. Nov. 28 vs. Panthers 1:00 PM- Win

13 Sun. Dec. 05 at Dolphins 1:00 PM- Win

14 Sun. Dec. 12 at Bills 1:00 PM- Win

15 Sun. Dec. 19 at Bengals 1:00 PM- Lose

16 Sun. Dec. 26 vs. Ravens 1:00 PM- Lose

17 Sun. Jan. 02 vs. Steelers 1:00 PM-Win

11-5 AFC Wildcard - I am seeing our TE's being the key in our passing game this year as still unsure of our young receivers, look for one of our TE's to get over 1000 yds recieving

If Josh Cribbs win's two, we might win 7.

Not a lot of big hopes from me this year, just looking for solid consistient play to build on.

@beefjerky said:

Marginal RBs? Jerome Harrison is far from marginal, anyone who gets the 4th most rushing yards in a game, in the history of the NFL and breaks Jim Brown's franchise record for it, is far from "marginal". Hardesty looks like a solid tough runner, and then there's Hillis for some more depth.

I agree with you about the WRs, that is the weakest position right now, they should sign an FA WR, but I do like the potential of Mitchell(played in a run first offense with a scrambling QB).

Nothing TE?? You ever hear of that guy Benjamin Watson we signed? Very solid receiving as well as blocking TE, and then there's Evan Moore for depth.

The Browns are a FA WR signing away from having a winning record (T.O!!!!).

Gimp rarely has anything to say except negative things. I don't think he is a Browns fan. Just some lonely troll who found this board and attached himself to it. Kind of like a blood sucker attaches itself to you.

@gmp said:

Ben Watson...?????????40 year old Ben Watson...Wasn't he catching balls for Jim Plunkett back when? Go to a fantasy Draft and see how long it takes a Ben Watson to get drafted on a fantasy team....bring your sleeping bag...!

T.O???????..well how'd that work out in Buffalo??.....would be a nice addtion to a Ravens, Patriots, kind of team..but not in Cleveland...

I admire all the positive talk of wins this year...but really?...look at that schedule...I can only see 4 wins tops on that...

I think next year 2012, will be an 8 and 8 year...the slow climb will begin then.......

Looks like another year of yardwork at 1pm Sundays

Finally a honest assessment and a realistic one. Believe me when I say this I want the AFC North to be the strongest division in football and it's damn close. I don't want the Browns to be a speed bump year after year save for your "franchise turn around victory" last season against the Steelers. It was bound to happen sooner or later after all these years. Anyway and for the real reason I'm posting in response to the above two posts is Jerome Harrison. He rushed for a bunch of yards in a few games. He's no different than Darrell Green of the Redskins at this current juncture and that's a fact. My suggestion is before anyone starts annointing him the next Barry Sanders he should probably put together a 16 game season of what he did towards the tail end of last season. He's a scat back that won't hold up if you ask me but I guess we'll see.

Oh and everyone needs to ask Montario how he's dealt with Worilds in the past or any RB for that matter. Supposedly he never allowed a rushing TD while being DE for the Hokies.