@rich4eagle said:

These are the Neilsen numbers for Designated Market Area. These numbers are for "TV households", not straight population figures. Even if a "household' has 4 different people watching 4 different things on TV it still counts as one household apparently.

@slowburn said:

Yea, but to the NFL and the networks these numbers are all about the cashola. So snooze on that.

You have to cross that mark in the sand one way or the other..... It's impossible to be a fan of both teams....

Coming from a family of hard core Steeler fans, (my father grew up a few houses away from Art Rooney Sr and they life long friends) Theres no way you can root for both....It's in the blood from around age 8 to 10 and you become a fan for life...

Peace

T.Dawg

@unsympathetic said:

BY DEFINITION, you cannot be a fan of both the Browns AND either the Steelers or Ravens.

You can be a champion-chaser. You can also be a moron. But you can't be a fan.

Loyalty matters. The definition of the term "fan" isn't up for debate. Ballpeen and rich, your definition was rejected long ago. You are welcome to go talk amongst yourselves - but don't run that line of BS in here.

You are friigiging totally stupid............by definition a FAN is short of Fanatic and fanatic means you really want that team to win................so by definition a fanatic can root for as many teams as he wishes............and a moronic less that intelligent fool will limit that to ONE TEAM.......thus you are a complete mental midget....among masses of mental midgets

@the-gipper said:

2008-09 2009-10 2009 2010

Rank Rank Difference DMA Name TV Homes TV Homes

1 1 New York 7,433,820 7,493,530

2 2 Los Angeles 5,654,260 5,659,170

3 3 Chicago 3,492,850 3,501,010

4 4 Philadelphia 2,950,220 2,955,190

5 5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,489,970 2,544,410

6 6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,476,450 2,503,400

7 7 Boston (Manchester) 2,409,080 2,410,180

8 8 Atlanta 2,369,780 2,387,520

9 9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,321,610 2,335,040

10 10 Houston 2,106,210 2,123,460

11 11 Detroit 1,926,970 1,890,220

12 12 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,855,930 1,873,930

14 13 +1 Seattle-Tacoma 1,819,970 1,833,990

13 14 -1 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,822,160 1,805,810

15 15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,730,530 1,732,050

18 16 +2 Denver 1,524,210 1,539,380

16 17 -1 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,546,920 1,538,090

17 18 -1 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,524,930 1,520,750

19 19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,466,420 1,455,620

20 20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,399,520 1,404,580

21 21 St. Louis 1,249,820 1,249,450

22 22 Portland, OR 1,175,100 1,188,770

23 23 Pittsburgh 1,156,460 1,154,950

24 24 Charlotte 1,122,860 1,147,910

25 25 Indianapolis 1,114,970 1,119,760

27 26 +1 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,080,680 1,107,820

26 27 -1 Baltimore 1,102,080 1,093,170

28 28 San Diego 1,066,680 1,073,390

29 29 Nashville 1,016,290 1,019,010

30 30 Hartford & New Haven 1,014,990 1,010,630

33 31 +2 Salt Lake City 919,390 944,060

31 32 -1 Kansas City 937,970 941,360

34 33 +1 Cincinnati 915,570 918,670

32 34 -2 Columbus, OH 925,840 904,030

35 35 Milwaukee 905,350 901,790

36 36 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 858,050 865,810

37 37 San Antonio 818,560 830,000

38 38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 779,430 776,080

41 39 +2 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 738,880 743,4

Not sure where you got these numbers but they are not even close to the real TV markets for a lot of these teams.......especially those who metro areas exceed the numbers you quoted

@slowburn said:

f the stoolers

LOL.....ask? Do you mean ass???

Like I said....if you don't think I am a fan of the Browns.....good for you.....you don't know squat sonny.

@ballpeen said:

why don't you try to root your head out of your ask.....communist

f the stoolers

@the-gipper said:

2008-09 2009-10 2009 2010

Rank Rank Difference DMA Name TV Homes TV Homes

1 1 New York 7,433,820 7,493,530

2 2 Los Angeles 5,654,260 5,659,170

3 3 Chicago 3,492,850 3,501,010

4 4 Philadelphia 2,950,220 2,955,190

5 5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,489,970 2,544,410

6 6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,476,450 2,503,400

7 7 Boston (Manchester) 2,409,080 2,410,180

8 8 Atlanta 2,369,780 2,387,520

9 9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,321,610 2,335,040

10 10 Houston 2,106,210 2,123,460

11 11 Detroit 1,926,970 1,890,220

12 12 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,855,930 1,873,930

14 13 +1 Seattle-Tacoma 1,819,970 1,833,990

13 14 -1 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,822,160 1,805,810

15 15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,730,530 1,732,050

18 16 +2 Denver 1,524,210 1,539,380

16 17 -1 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,546,920 1,538,090

17 18 -1 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,524,930 1,520,750

19 19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,466,420 1,455,620

20 20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,399,520 1,404,580

21 21 St. Louis 1,249,820 1,249,450

22 22 Portland, OR 1,175,100 1,188,770

23 23 Pittsburgh 1,156,460 1,154,950

24 24 Charlotte 1,122,860 1,147,910

25 25 Indianapolis 1,114,970 1,119,760

27 26 +1 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,080,680 1,107,820

26 27 -1 Baltimore 1,102,080 1,093,170

28 28 San Diego 1,066,680 1,073,390

29 29 Nashville 1,016,290 1,019,010

30 30 Hartford & New Haven 1,014,990 1,010,630

33 31 +2 Salt Lake City 919,390 944,060

31 32 -1 Kansas City 937,970 941,360

34 33 +1 Cincinnati 915,570 918,670

32 34 -2 Columbus, OH 925,840 904,030

35 35 Milwaukee 905,350 901,790

36 36 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 858,050 865,810

37 37 San Antonio 818,560 830,000

38 38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 779,430 776,080

41 39 +2 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 738,880 743,4

sleep apnea induced, wall shaking snore

Years ago folks who lived around here were primarily Dallas fans. Atlanta has never been an attractive choice for some reason. People watch the Falcons but I can't say I've ever seen any fans.

Judging by the gear the kids wear, I'd say the Panthers have more fans but you just don't see much Panthers paraphernalia on cars and such. People are more likely to display Clemson or Carolina loyalties.

As for the Sports Bars I've been in (a total of three or four) the Pittsburgh fans seem to be more plentiful. In fact, I was at a place last week and the guy running the trivia contest is a Pittsburgh fan who claims he "used to be a Browns fan." There's a fairly active Browns Backers group here in Greenville. I haven't been to a club to watch a game since before smoking was banned.

@ballpeen said:

Correct, as I have said, the NFL is all about the TV market. Here are the Nielsen DMAs which I believe I may have posted before:

2008-09 2009-10 2009 2010

Rank Rank Difference DMA Name TV Homes TV Homes

1 1 New York 7,433,820 7,493,530

2 2 Los Angeles 5,654,260 5,659,170

3 3 Chicago 3,492,850 3,501,010

4 4 Philadelphia 2,950,220 2,955,190

5 5 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,489,970 2,544,410

6 6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,476,450 2,503,400

7 7 Boston (Manchester) 2,409,080 2,410,180

8 8 Atlanta 2,369,780 2,387,520

9 9 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,321,610 2,335,040

10 10 Houston 2,106,210 2,123,460

11 11 Detroit 1,926,970 1,890,220

12 12 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,855,930 1,873,930

14 13 +1 Seattle-Tacoma 1,819,970 1,833,990

13 14 -1 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,822,160 1,805,810

15 15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,730,530 1,732,050

18 16 +2 Denver 1,524,210 1,539,380

16 17 -1 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,546,920 1,538,090

17 18 -1 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,524,930 1,520,750

19 19 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,466,420 1,455,620

20 20 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,399,520 1,404,580

21 21 St. Louis 1,249,820 1,249,450

22 22 Portland, OR 1,175,100 1,188,770

23 23 Pittsburgh 1,156,460 1,154,950

24 24 Charlotte 1,122,860 1,147,910

25 25 Indianapolis 1,114,970 1,119,760

27 26 +1 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 1,080,680 1,107,820

26 27 -1 Baltimore 1,102,080 1,093,170

28 28 San Diego 1,066,680 1,073,390

29 29 Nashville 1,016,290 1,019,010

30 30 Hartford & New Haven 1,014,990 1,010,630

33 31 +2 Salt Lake City 919,390 944,060

31 32 -1 Kansas City 937,970 941,360

34 33 +1 Cincinnati 915,570 918,670

32 34 -2 Columbus, OH 925,840 904,030

35 35 Milwaukee 905,350 901,790

36 36 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 858,050 865,810

37 37 San Antonio 818,560 830,000

38 38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 779,430 776,080

41 39 +2 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 738,880 743,4

@the-gipper said:

The reason Columbus is so large is that they incorporated Franklin county. If Cleveland were to incorporate Cuyahoga it would be higher in population.

@hoorta said:

It actually includes everything you mention plus down to south of Canton.

Answer: these were rankings of the population of their metropolitan regions, not just their city proper. E.g. Columbus proper at this point is far larger than Cleveland proper, but the Cleveland Metro region is probably double or more the size of the Columbus Metro region. Fans are generally drawn from the metro region, not just the the city proper.

Ask this question:

How many of the Browns fans who patronize this board actually live inside the Cleveland city limits? Few if any probably.

@ballpeen said:

I don't have this twisted view that since I am a Browns fan I have to hate everything Pittsburgh.

I rooted for the Ravens in their Superbowl....the Bengals....I root for the home team....and AFC North teams are the home team.

I don't root for them while we are still in contention for a North Crown.....but once we are out of the picture....I don't hope they lose just to be a dick.

I am a avid Gator fan but didn't think twice about rooting for Bama to win the national championship.

That doesn't make me a bandwagon fan or a lesser Browns fan does it?

I will say that when the Steelers and Cowboys played I was not sorry to see them beat the Cowboys. But when they played the Seahawks and Cardinals, no, I was definitely rooting for the opposition (though for perhaps a different reason than you think. I had wanted the Seahawks to win because they had never won a title, and I had wanted the Cards to win because they haven't won since 1947. If the Steelers had not won since 1947 I may indeed have been wishing them to win)

@rich4eagle said:

So the answer is simple the Pittsburgh Steelers have more fans than any other team.........and that is easy to see that no matter where they play "terrible towels" are obvious.

Years back we had that mantra.......but twenty years of pathetic football preceded by 15 out twenty some years of pathetic football................have erased "the Storied History of the Cleveland Browns"........when once all the world was Browns Town

The best thing Cleveland fans can do is admit that this post says it correct............and be committed to demand the new management keeps moving forward instead of like the fan base did previously salute a bunch of buffoons.............and their buffoon decisions

and worse like ever other response to this thread ignored the obvious...........The Steelers.......denial is disease which cannot solve problems

Go Browns

If by your statements you are saying that there are a lot of Steeler FrontRunnerAssKisser fans out there, I certainly would not be one to deny that, though I suspect there are more Dallas FRAKs and Raider FRAKs. IF the Browns had performed the way the Steelers have performed the last 30 or so years, then the Browns FRAKs would have probably dwarfed the number of Steeler FRAKs, but the Browns have not. Bottom line: those Steeler FRAKs only love the winning, not the Steelers or Pittsburgh per se. If the Bengals had won 6 SBs and the Steeelers none, all those FRAKs would have probably been Bengal fans, or Lions fans if they had the same record, or Bills fans, or Eagles or any other team you might want to name. It is good to be a winner, just don't be deluded into thinking that it has been anything other than the winning that has attracted fans to that team.

BY DEFINITION, you cannot be a fan of both the Browns AND either the Steelers or Ravens.

You can be a champion-chaser. You can also be a moron. But you can't be a fan.

Loyalty matters. The definition of the term "fan" isn't up for debate. Ballpeen and rich, your definition was rejected long ago. You are welcome to go talk amongst yourselves - but don't run that line of BS in here.

@listercat said:

Because they're including Durham and Chapel Hill (UNC & Duke) in the "metro area". Chapel Hill is a stretch. By that count the Cleveland "metro area" should include Lorain to Painesville, and everything north of Brunswick.

nmills said:

i guess so.

@ballpeen said:

I don't have this twisted view that since I am a Browns fan I have to hate everything Pittsburgh.

I rooted for the Ravens in their Superbowl....the Bengals....I root for the home team....and AFC North teams are the home team.

I don't root for them while we are still in contention for a North Crown.....but once we are out of the picture....I don't hope they lose just to be a dick.

I am a avid Gator fan but didn't think twice about rooting for Bama to win the national championship.

That doesn't make me a bandwagon fan or a lesser Browns fan does it?

We pretty much follow the same rules about teams. Since I grew up half way between Pittsburgh and Cleveland I have always been a fan of all sports teams from both cities. In recent years it has been way easier to view the Pittsburgh teams. I have season tics to the Browns but rarely go. I am optimistic we have turned from stupid to a building franchise. I have no hope for the lead moron who stated what he did but he is what he is DUMB as are those who had reinforce stupidity. Anyway, again thanks for the kind words and let's hope we get real fans who understand the game and what constitutes a fan to overrule rude assholes like I just encountered