Those two are like herding cats....very active

@mark-o said:

All that said... I'm with Roach...I'm a Browns fan and I want to see us win some damn games no matter who is under center.

Look, I respect all you guys Mark so this aint' personal but "Bah Humbug!" Seriously, what if DA does good in 2 games and he's reverts back to DA in 3 games so we win 6 games instead of 4 games? Do we REALLY want things any more cloudy than this nightmare already is?

They flushed this season right down the toilet and HEADS (that's plural) need to roll. And if for some reason we win 5 games by accident or 5 opponents go NY Giants thinking they have a vacation game and we go 9-7 do you want us missing playoffs for another 10 years?

I see this scapegoating 1 more freakin Head Coach as 100% of the problems when we don't have an ounce of character beyond Cribbs, Thomas, Wright, Rogers, Pontbriand and Dawson. The sad thing is 4 of those guys are part time on Sundays including Rogers when teams move the chains and his endurance lures him to sidelines.

This front office around the NFL circles is rumored to be in constant chaos. If that's what we want from here on out - hope we win the 5 games as meaningful as preseason. I'm SOOOOOO disappointed Opie wasn't what I thought he'd be nor was RAC. And just to rub salt in the wound, we get treated to a QB sporting a 47% completion rate and a WR that can't catch anything that touches his hands with an over-the-hill RB. What's to like? This ain't the Cleveland Browns you grew up on so don't accept the crappy product when it's crappy.

Season ticket holders ought to get their money back this year - they're getting robbed by a counterfeit operation posing as the Cleveland Browns tradition. Cartwheels, cheers and stadiums full of people only say: "Thank you sir - may I have another!"

You're not a terrible fan for demanding more from your team or hoping a cloudy picture comes into focus these next 5 weeks. Character isn't made by coaches - it's innate so your personnel guy CANNOT think a Ray Lewis needs a Marvin Lewis or Brian Billick to invent sic em, sock em and sack em. D'Qwell Jackson gets blocked out of your tv screen - Ray Lewis rips people's heads off at the line of scrimmage when he's not scoring on another INT from Dumb Ass.

- Tom F. (This Brass made me numb about what I'm rooting for or against as did the character of this team. Gut it!)

All that said... I'm with Roach...I'm a Browns fan and I want to see us win some damn games no matter who is under center.

@roach said:

DA was 7-0 at home last year and represented my team (not very well) in the Pro Bowl. Quinn has won at a big time level in college and has shown great athleticism, poise and accuracy at the pro level. WTF is wrong with you people? We've got a great situation and everyone is shitting all over it. This thread has convinced me that Browns fans have lost their edge as pure football people.

i love the Browns, Mount Union and St. Ignatius. The order is unimportant.

That's the best comments made yet.

I actually started this thread with the rule to delete the negativity because I'm embarrassed for Browns fans for their stupidity over this subject.

I hope DA gets all those players around him that he made better last season, better again against the Colts on Sunday.

BTW, Congrats to St. Iggy ... great game. I love that McVey kid, can't wait to see him return next season.

DA was 7-0 at home last year and represented my team (not very well) in the Pro Bowl. Quinn has won at a big time level in college and has shown great athleticism, poise and accuracy at the pro level. WTF is wrong with you people? We've got a great situation and everyone is shitting all over it. This thread has convinced me that Browns fans have lost their edge as pure football people.

i love the Browns, Mount Union and St. Ignatius. The order is unimportant.

mz. said:

i think this sums up things pretty neatly.

@lumbergh said:

You're repressing your desires Lums, this is not healthy.

You can rationalize, justify, deny, block it out of your mind and kick and scream all you want, but it's not going to change the fact you're infatuated with the Golden Domer.

Hey, it can't be easy coming to terms with your own sexuality Lums, especially after having a kid but hey, shit happens.

You probably need to let this all out, it would be much healthier.

@riffer-x said:

Lums is actually in love with BQ and extremely attracted to him. He has a hard time coming to terms with this, so instead he portends to hate Queen and back the Serial Drive Killer until the Beavers come home.

He would make a great study.

Riffer is having trouble understanding why Non-BQ Fags don't want to get oiled up and lay pipe to their Brady Quinn Fathead posters.

mz. said:

We don't hate DA personally, we hate the idea of him being our QB. Thank goodness the experiment is coming to a halt.

As for you, calling us out as fans, "jarhead", fuck off. I'm so sick and tired of Browns fans being criticized here, on our own board, because we want, simply, to watch winning football. Something Derek is not a part of, quite obviously.

no need to get hostile mz the pussy. I'm sure it is tough to stomach when your jack-off fantasy BQ comes in and hits rock bottom in the Football Outsiders DVOA ratings and on top of that gets himself benched AND knocked out for the year with a fingertip injury.

Like I told you yesterday...you and the rest of the BQ Fags have a lot to hope for.....i.e. you need DA to lose some games for BQ to have ANY credentials AT ALL as an NFL QB....to avoid your "Worst Nightmare". So go out and get some Colt gear and get ready for the big game.

@flugel said:

Good point Flugs, how about we take a look see at how Favre played on that same day over there in Chicago.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d805607fc

And at 2:05 Favre explains how 35 mph winds affect his game.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80560add

@jarhead said:

Pathetic take, jarhead. You dont think he'd be safe staying here? I guess you are used to patrolling the planet...

We don't hate DA personally, we hate the idea of him being our QB. Thank goodness the experiment is coming to a halt.

As for you, calling us out as fans, "jarhead", fuck off. I'm so sick and tired of Browns fans being criticized here, on our own board, because we want, simply, to watch winning football. Something Derek is not a part of, quite obviously.

@sturim said:

LOL! The only problem with this all is the Dr Frasier Crane types of the Pacific Northwest consider running with scissors to be an effective form of therapy. I suppose it's better than hanging out with grown men that like to do splits, cartwheels and circle jerks every game closest to Christmas to honor his annual 4 INT performances. He was even a better Kris Kringle to opponents than Kyle Boller and that ain't easy. Last excuse I heard out of Lums last year was Rudolph wasn't starting at Center in Cincy so it was the first time in history a QB has been asked to brave inclimate weather while Favre threw 5 TD passes on the same day in the same midwest type of weather without Rudloph.

Lummy's the king of excuses - it's all we've seen throughout 2008.

- Tom F.

@lumbergh said:

Now it's somebody else's fault BQ can't read a defense.

What's a better batting average .333 or .000? Equating this to our cause: BQ's winning percentage was 333 points higher than your favorite QB. Brady Quinn 1 Dumb Ass 0

Let's review 3rd starts in apples to apples:

DA faced a team that could only win 4 of 16 games with this gem:

Dec 24, 2005 D. Anderson 10 of 27 for 123yds 37.0 cmp% 4.6 avg 0 TD 4 INT This equals a 12.5 passer rating.

Our defense scored the ONLY pts as we can see how one of DA's INTs went for a TD. To this day, have you ever seen a Browns' Qb throw more INTs for TDs to opponents. There's 4 in our last 3 games with Baltimore.

7:05 TB FG Matt Bryant kicked a 23-yard field goal 3 - 0

2nd Quarter

6:18 TB FG Matt Bryant kicked a 24-yard field goal 6 - 0

3rd Quarter

9:20 TB TD Michael Pittman rushed to the right for 11 yard gain (Matt Bryant missed PAT) 12 - 0

4th Quarter

14:12 TB TD Derrick Brooks intercepted Derek Anderson for 21 yards (Matt Bryant made PAT) 19 - 0

11:33 CLE TD Tim Rattay fumbled. Daven Holly recovered fumble and returned for 40 yards (Phil Dawson PAT) 19 - 7

5:47 TB FG Matt Bryant kicked a 37-yard field goal 22 - 7

Now for a LITTLE more intelligence

BQ 8 of 18 for 94 yds 44.4 comp% 5.22 avg 0 TD 2 INT - margin of defeat was less, comp percentage better, avg pass gain better, less INTs with a broken index finger and damaged ligaments and tendons vrs a better team than Tampa was

I see why you're frustrated that Quinn was better in his very first preseason as well as his very first 3 starts.

NOW, if I pull up DA's performance 364 days later - Am I going to see progress? Let's just let the facts determine our answer because you're too lost in love:

Dec 23 @ CIN 53.4 29 of 48 for 251 yds 53 comp% 5.2 avg 4 INT 2 TD

- Like I shared on another thread, our offense had the ball to the Cincy 29 and further on 5 different occasions where we watched DA throw INTs and/or spark us to 0 points for all of those in a game our oline gave us about 150 yards rushing. Jason Wright averaged 12.7 yards a carry while Jamal averaged 4.4 in the same game. We just didn't have the right QB.

I didn't see a growing QB the same way a male cheerleader from Oregon State would have. Same guy Christmas season later. You've got that homecoming princess love with Lancelot armour working. It's adorable but truth be told it never amounted to a Victorious Secret come Christmas time.

- Tom F. (The goal of a franchise QB isn't to have our opponents drooling during every dropback and singing: "Here comes Santa Claus - Here comes Santa Claus right down Interception Lane." DA is averaging 4 INTs every start closest to Christmas. You got any cartwheels for that one Loverboy?)

@flugel said:

How many times does Quinn need to throw zero TDs against shitty defenses and get pulled from games for you to figure out who the BRASS likes at QB?

The Browns have thrown zero TD passes in 3 separate games this year.

Guess who is responsible for two of those? And guess who was playing against the better defenses?

@riffer-x said:

Always somebody else's fault.

Now it's somebody else's fault BQ can't read a defense.

He should have been developed a helluva lot more by now, regardless of a freakish hand injury.

Hey Hanklin Fraley, feel free to pick up the blitz up the middle.

Now next year the Browns intend on going into camp with a QB that is 1 - 2 as the starter with a 66 rating. A little bit of improvement over 0 - 3 but then again the team that DA was 0 - 3 on was horrible and not nearly as good as this "perfect Cockpit". I say that more to get illustrate that your 0 - 3 comment about 2006 does not mean a whole lot.

The reason that DA was not removed as a starter in 2007 was that he threw for 3700 yards 30 TDs and the team was trying to make the Playoffs. Now against the Niners you could argue that BQ should have been left in the game. I know it was an easy schedule last year .. Blah blah blah.

This season DA played 3 good to great games and 5 bad to horrible games and a bad quarter. DA is done in Cleveland, but he is the QB Right now for the Browns and there is no first round QB on the bench. So just get behind DA and hope he brings it the rest of the season.

Next season the Browns will go into training camp with a QB that is 1 - 2 against 3 medicore to bad defenses and a 66 rating. He will get his chance to prove that is not what he is. He will get his chance to prove he is durable. He will get his chance to prove he is a leader. And he will get his chance to prove he can do what DA could not, be consistant.

Still bothers me that this team has had 11 QBs in 10 years. I hope they stick with BQ for more than a season. They need to give him time to develope. After all he will only be 25 next year.

@flugel said:

Then, in 2008, we had to stomach countless BAD days from DA regardless of excuses without ever once seeing this newfound need for a spark RAC alluded to. Somebody like Lums will NEVER get this but the FANS did not draft BQ or heavily commit to him on draft day - Savage did. Am I right in saying that? Now here's the ridiculous outcome: we won't know if BQ was the right choice heading into season #3 and a majority of fans are certain DA is NOT the guy. That's inexcusable for our BRASS to not know if we're set at QB or not.

Furthermore, all this follows cramming Trent Doofus down our esophagii so we ALL saw Frye as an upgrade. Now THAT sucks! This has been a collasal screwup BUT what masks everything is a schedule full of candyasses in 2007 where 12 opponents averaged 4 wins apiece (2 were winless at the time we played them). I don't DA's late Novemeber and December looked anything like his September and October as the number of scouting reports for DCs to master him made it easy.

- Tom F.

That post was money Flugs.

@ballpeen said:

I think one could look back through 1st round qbs drafted who didn't get 25 starts with the team that drafted them...

I don't disagree with much of what you say, but you totally discount the new regime.

What if the new guy doesn't like Quinn?

Ballpeen, that's a very logical question. I think what infuriorates people is that Savage had an urgency to cough up 2 draft picks to trade back up into round 1 to get BQ. We're just not good enough to throw away that many draft picks so if Quinn wasn't WORTHY of putting on the field for some guy that was 0-3 and did NOT win the starting job in camp, we've thrown out 3 different draft picks essentially for a 47% completion rating. Quinn actually had the strongest preseason performances in 2007 while Frye and DA combined for 1 TD pass all preseason of 07. NOBODY understood the hesitation and reluctance to REMOVE DA when he threw that game away in Cincy last year. We reached their 29 yard line or further 5 times without scoring on any of those as we watched 4 bad decisions yanking playoffs from our future. The SAD thing was our oline paved the way for about 150 yards rushing that day and Bodden returned an INT to Cincy's 22 that SHOULD have made QBing easy vrs the crap team we were playing. Seriously, does a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or even a Drew Brees lose a game like that? For that matter, does Chad Pennington?

Then, in 2008, we had to stomach countless BAD days from DA regardless of excuses without ever once seeing this newfound need for a spark RAC alluded to. Somebody like Lums will NEVER get this but the FANS did not draft BQ or heavily commit to him on draft day - Savage did. Am I right in saying that? Now here's the ridiculous outcome: we won't know if BQ was the right choice heading into season #3 and a majority of fans are certain DA is NOT the guy. That's inexcusable for our BRASS to not know if we're set at QB or not.

Furthermore, all this follows cramming Trent Doofus down our esophagii so we ALL saw Frye as an upgrade. Now THAT sucks! This has been a collasal screwup BUT what masks everything is a schedule full of candyasses in 2007 where 12 opponents averaged 4 wins apiece (2 were winless at the time we played them). I don't DA's late Novemeber and December looked anything like his September and October as the number of scouting reports for DCs to master him made it easy.

- Tom F.

WHETHER OUR BELOVED BROWNS WIN OR LOSE AT LEAST THAT IS A FUN OFFENSE TO WATCH.

BUT WHAT THE HELL DO I KNOW, i ONLY RAN AN OPTION OFFENSE FOR FOUR YEARS IN HIGH SHCOOL. 4 YEARS 1400 YARDS RUSHING AND 24 PASSING TD'S.