@browns57 said:

Would rather it be this as opposed to a QB pissing contest .

@the-gipper said:

Shame on you rich.

Formerly Stone said:

Yes, why should HE invade your exclusive domain when it comes to all encompassing ignorance.

Shame on you rich.

@rich4eagle said:

If I could ever figure out how to load my image here you would all understand I rode a Motorcycle in every state in the US and most of Canada...............

riding provides great situational awareness and being in so many state capitals all states gives one a sense of up and down

By far the poorest part of America is the deep south sans Florida, by far the richest part is the Northeast and Cali coast.

I love Wash DC lived there for 35 years watching the center of power in the known universe at work...........and did work 1000 times in the Pentagon and a bunch of times at the US Capitol

that bullshit aside..........

riding and living made me appreciate a few things

First off, weather is important..........AC wrecked Cleveland and Pittsburgh two cities who had their moments out of the sun............

now sun drenched cities have AC..............hot ............go in enjoy the AC and the mild winter

Cleveland and Pittsburgh have nowhere to go in the cold rain and snow from Nov till April

Me here in Charlotte............not a prob with 200 plus days of sunshine a year

Anyway the highest mountain in Eastern US and biggest waterfall is here in NC ................and the Banking Capital sans NY.........NOT BAD

On my rides I have come to this conclusion subject to change

SD is number one..............for many reasons......

I think here is Charlotte is a great best of all worlds.............Myrtle Beach and Outer Banks and Hilton Head the best beaches in the USA.............but wait......the greatest mountains in the USA the Smokies because they have the great Blue Ridge Parkway and all those great tiny towns along the way and those 78 degree summer days.

Damn you can do both in two three hours

nuff about puffing my town

We have Steeler fans and Browns fans and all fans..............J...eee...ttt...sss

and the others

Now going back to great American cities

Chicago...........if you deal with cold and can afford to live downtown...................AWESOME

LA..............gave two houses one in the city and one at Manhattan Beach.........life is too cool

NY.........got money............Manhattan and Long Island......or in Conn...........the best

Cabo Mexico, have a place here too

Santiago Chile ..........the jumping off point for future postering

Australia...........the Gold Coast close to Sydney

Spain ......anywhere

Tampa Bay Clearwater..............cannot go wrong

Vancouver Island BC and Vancouver..........BOOM a winner

Nova Scotia what a great place

Pittsburgh and Cleveland it is all about spending ourselves broke on useless wars and killing these cities or figuring a way to bring back their industrial might WHICH AMERICA has abandoned.........not to mention the next the green scene

Very good post Rich. I will say this right now about the weather. This Spring was one of the best in Cleveland in recent memory. Virtually no snow in March or April, and in fact April was the warmest on record. Summer so far has been quite hot. Which is exactly what it should be!

You're right about the useless wars, and spending ourselves broke. It absolutely makes me sick that all of our jobs are going overseas so that these big corporations can make an extra buck. What about what is in the best interest of our fellow Americans? I don't even want to get started on this rant, as I can already feel my blood pressure rising thinking about it. There are too many factors involved. It's funny, because my neighbor on his Facebook when asked about his political affiliation he put down "it doesn't matter, because it's too late." Sadly I think he may be right.

For these two rust belt cities it is crucial that they continue to reinvent themselves, or they will continue to decline. Pittsburgh is figuring it out. Cleveland needs a major overhaul in leadership. This city needs to s*** or get off the pot when it comes to the casino, revamping the flats, the Medical Mart the schools... ect, and do what it takes to capitalize on this. Again, I wish that I had all of the answers, but I don't. But in the end this goes way beyond who has better sports teams.

If I could ever figure out how to load my image here you would all understand I rode a Motorcycle in every state in the US and most of Canada...............

riding provides great situational awareness and being in so many state capitals all states gives one a sense of up and down

By far the poorest part of America is the deep south sans Florida, by far the richest part is the Northeast and Cali coast.

I love Wash DC lived there for 35 years watching the center of power in the known universe at work...........and did work 1000 times in the Pentagon and a bunch of times at the US Capitol

that bullshit aside..........

riding and living made me appreciate a few things

First off, weather is important..........AC wrecked Cleveland and Pittsburgh two cities who had their moments out of the sun............

now sun drenched cities have AC..............hot ............go in enjoy the AC and the mild winter

Cleveland and Pittsburgh have nowhere to go in the cold rain and snow from Nov till April

Me here in Charlotte............not a prob with 200 plus days of sunshine a year

Anyway the highest mountain in Eastern US and biggest waterfall is here in NC ................and the Banking Capital sans NY.........NOT BAD

On my rides I have come to this conclusion subject to change

SD is number one..............for many reasons......

I think here is Charlotte is a great best of all worlds.............Myrtle Beach and Outer Banks and Hilton Head the best beaches in the USA.............but wait......the greatest mountains in the USA the Smokies because they have the great Blue Ridge Parkway and all those great tiny towns along the way and those 78 degree summer days.

Damn you can do both in two three hours

nuff about puffing my town

We have Steeler fans and Browns fans and all fans..............J...eee...ttt...sss

and the others

Now going back to great American cities

Chicago...........if you deal with cold and can afford to live downtown...................AWESOME

LA..............gave two houses one in the city and one at Manhattan Beach.........life is too cool

NY.........got money............Manhattan and Long Island......or in Conn...........the best

Cabo Mexico, have a place here too

Santiago Chile ..........the jumping off point for future postering

Australia...........the Gold Coast close to Sydney

Spain ......anywhere

Tampa Bay Clearwater..............cannot go wrong

Vancouver Island BC and Vancouver..........BOOM a winner

Nova Scotia what a great place

Pittsburgh and Cleveland it is all about spending ourselves broke on useless wars and killing these cities or figuring a way to bring back their industrial might WHICH AMERICA has abandoned.........not to mention the next the green scene

@the-gipper said:

I went to college in Ohio. Kent State to be specific and spent plenty of time in Cleveland. A good friend of mine lives in Edgewater I believe in Lakewood. His backyard runs to the water. We took many a drunken cab ride home from Cleveland so yes I've spent a EXTENSIVE amount of time in the area seeing as Cleveland is the closest city to the University. Also most of what is great about Pittsburgh is in Pittsburgh on the outskirts of the major downtown area aka where all the sky scrapers are...the north shore, south side, strip district.

Formerly Stone said:

So? What, like a filthy rat, did you just stowaway on board that boat?

http://www.rockle.com/yap/stripclubs/cleveland/10

Formerly Stone said:

Thanks for spending your money here. If you didn't like it here, why did you bother to come.

Or are you one of these local FRAKs?

Rorbotron said:

I have had several trips to Pittsburgh to go to college games and to do business downtown. Have I spent a whole week there? No. But I have spent as much time there as I have in many of the other major cities in this country. And how much time have you taken to experience Cleveland and Northeast Ohio? Did you check out the thread that I had on here detailing an itinerary of things that could be done here for out of town visitors? (and hell, I even forgot about the Westside market until ballpeen reminded me). I even had to leave off some major attractions in this area because I didn't have time to fit them in (like Cedar Point and Amish Country)

Formerly Stone said:

Ignorance is as ignorance does. When did you take that cruise? 1957?

@ballpeen said:

BB players have to live in their teams city during the NBA season, which is mostly the winter months, and Miami might be just a wee bit nicer in February that it is in Cleveland.

I am sure that if he finds the Miami summers warmer than he likes, he probably already has a pretty nice place in Toronto for the hot weather months.

OK, but what I am saying is that he has apparently put the considerations of "where is it nice to be in the winter" above the considerations of "where can I go play with the best player on the planet". Not only that, but I understand that he actually leaves money on the table by not doing the sign and trade here. To me, those are both indices that "partying" in what he perceives to be comfort is of utmost importance to him, not playing basketball.

Rorbotron said:

I do include them in the argument, because of their proximity. I actually didn't mind the Science Museum. I will tell you that the Rock Hall needs to be marketed better, and more geared toward having the induction ceremonies in Cleveland every year as opposed to every couple years. Now, we all know that the Cleveland schools are crap, however; a lot what goes into the fixing the schools has to start at home.

Bottomline, this city and region has a lot hardworking people, a lot of resources and a lot of potential. We as a region instead of pissing and moaning need to do what it takes to turn it around. With the economy being bad EVERYWHERE, this is a good time to capitalize and reinvent ourselves. Projects like the Medical Mart the casino, and the restoration of the Flats can go a long way in helping.

@the-gipper said:

But you are right, both towns are similar, have plenty to offer and enjoy, and a sports rivalry won't keep me from doing so, though I have no intention to go there soon. However, I had thought about it when I learned that there had been a National Heritage Area, administered by the National Park System that was to be set up there. Now, however I learn that the "Rivers of Steel National Heritage" will not be commissioned after all. It seems that the politician or politicians who were proposing it (from PA) have apparently overextended themselves as they also wanted essentially the entire state of PA to be a National Heritage area. They already have the "Oil Region" NHA, and the "Paths of Progress" NHA, and the Delaware-Lehigh Valley NHA, and the Lackawanna Valley NHA, and the Schuykill Valley NHA, and the Potomac NHA, and the Chesapeake Bay NHA, like I said, the entire damn state. Apparently the President and Congress said "that's enough", most other states have maybe one, two, or no NHA's...it is absurd to fund all these requests for Pennsylvania."

So, I will keep my eyes open on that. If it falls, I won't go, but if it succeeds I may check it out.

I have been to every major city in the US and Canada, and there are a lot of other places I have my eyes on, so Pittsburgh is not a high priority to visit...unless this other thing goes through and is implemented.

Here is link on this: http://www.nps.gov/state/PA/

But I can't get the Rivers of Steel link to activate. That may just be my computer, or maybe it has been deleted from the NPS site.

Yeah, I've been to a ton of cities as well, and I would agree with you that Cleveland would only rank in my top 10 because they have the Cavs and the Browns. Although back when I was old enough to party and would go to Cleveland, the Flats were a rockin place.

I'd certainly put Baltimore, Austin, and San Diego near the top of my list. Detroit is at the bottom, hands down.

@the-gipper said:

And if you expect us to believe that you honestly don't like Cleveland all that well, then you need to respect those who say they honestly don't like Pittsburgh all that well.

FYI I have traveled to every city in the country, and there are towns I like that others may not like, and there are towns that it may surprise you that I really don't care for. Let's start with Dallas, then Atlanta, Houston.

If I were to rank the 46 cities in America that are what I call major league cities, there might be a few surprises in those rankings. ( As an avid traveler, I have done a top 10 list. Neither Pittsburgh or Cleveland are in the top 10. They would probably be in the middle

I definitely haven't read the entire thread so if I missed the Warehouse District discussion early in the thread I apologize. Otherwise the Warehouse discussion appeared only after I mentioned the poor condition of the flats. I'd also wager that most of the people in this thread have only driven through Pittsburgh and have never taken the time to experience Pittsburgh. Hell I doubt you Mr. Travel has actually taken the time to experience Pittsburgh. Either way it doesn't begin to matter because too each their own.

Rorbotron said:

You are not paying attention. The clubs etc. that used to be in the Flats all moved up the hill to the Warehouse district. In fact they are considerably more upscale there than they were in the Flats.

And if you expect us to believe that you honestly don't like Cleveland all that well, then you need to respect those who say they honestly don't like Pittsburgh all that well.

FYI I have traveled to every city in the country, and there are towns I like that others may not like, and there are towns that it may surprise you that I really don't care for. Let's start with Dallas, then Atlanta, Houston.

If I were to rank the 46 cities in America that are what I call major league cities, there might be a few surprises in those rankings. ( As an avid traveler, I have done a top 10 list. Neither Pittsburgh or Cleveland are in the top 10. They would probably be in the middle).

@djdawg2010 said:

Science Museum is awful but Pittsburgh's is also equally boring most of the time. The rock hall is too damn expensive for what it is if you ask me but nice for a one and done type situation. I also wouldn't include the HOF or Cedar Point in the argument for Cleveland but yes both are awesome.

Rorbotron said:

Yes it's ashame the city of Cleveland let the Flats go to hell. It was a huge draw for not only NE Ohioans, but for folks in the region. I remember in the 90s and even early 00s driving through there and seeing all of the out of town license plates. The Flats has not been restored as of yet, however; the proposal is for a combination of condos, offices, restaurants and bars to be built on the east bank. There hasn't been much movement on the project, however; if they're smart that is where they should put the casino. Furthermore, I would consider a floating casino as well. At any rate we still have The Warehouse District which is going strong, and E 4th as viable entertainment districts. Not the Flats, but definitely not bad. There are also plans for the restoration of the Euclid corridor, in which they have already added a busline and did significant road work. We also have the Rock Hall, and Science Museum as well as a world class orchestra and one of the best arts districts in the country. Add to the mix, Tremont, Little Italy, and places like Chagrin Falls, as well as being about an hour from the NFL HOF and an hour from the greatest amusement park (for thrills) in the country. Yeah, I think we're pretty OK in my book. Sure there are a number of things that I would do better, but nothing is perfect.

@the-gipper said:

I mostly agree with that you are saying....I wouldn't want to live in Miami anytime, but he won't have to live in Miami during the summer months.

BB players have to live in their teams city during the NBA season, which is mostly the winter months, and Miami might be just a wee bit nicer in February that it is in Cleveland.

I am sure that if he finds the Miami summers warmer than he likes, he probably already has a pretty nice place in Toronto for the hot weather months.

@the-gipper said:

I honestly don't. I like the west side market and playhouse square. Otherwise the city in my opinion is completely forgettable. The flats used to be nice but they quickly went down hill. I'm not sure if there has been a resurgence there or not but the last time I was there the flats were really on the decline.

Formerly Stone said:

London, England

@westside-steve said:

One cannot be both a heterosexual AND love the feeling of a mans dick in his butt.

"You've got to serve somebody" -Bob Dylan

WSS

How do you explain yourself then, Dude?

Rorbotron said:

Either way too each their own.

As soon as you get over being "ashamed to admit you like Cleveland" we will do likewise.