TD's/KR

Gale Sayers 11

Devin Hester 10

Josh Cribbs 9

Deion Sanders 8

Billy Johnson 7

Mel Gray 6

Dante Hall 5

Eric Metcalf 4

Brian Mitchell 3

Desmond Howard 1.5

Rick Upchurch 1.5

TDs/PR

Gale Sayers 11

Devin Hester 10

Desmond Howard 9

Rick Upchurch 8

Eric Metcalf 7

Deion Sanders 6

Dante Hall 5

Billy Johnson 4

Brian Mitchell 3

Josh Cribbs 2

Mel Gray 1

TDs/Total Returns

Gale Sayers 11

Devin Hester 10

Josh Cribbs 9

Deion Sanders 8

Rick Upchurch 7

Billy Johnson 6

Eric Metcalf 5

Dante Hall 4

Mel Gray 3

Desmond Howard 2

Brian Mitchell 1

The final total is inclusive of my last figure, the above just adds to it.

1 - Gale Sayers 79

2 - Devin Hester 66.5

3 - Josh Cribbs 65.5

4 - Dante Hall 54.5

5 - Rick Upchurch 52

t6 - Mel Gray 49.5

t6 - Brian Mitchell 49.5

8 - Deion Sanders 46.5

9 - Billy Johnson 45

t10 - Eric Metcalf 43

t10 - Desmond Howard 43

In comparison, without TD's/Return ratios

1 - Gale Sayers 46

2 - Josh Cribbs 45.5

3 - Brian Mitchell 42.5

4 - Dante Hall 40.5

5 - Mel Gray 39.5

6 - Devin Hester 37

7 - Rick Upchurch 35.5

8 - Desmond Howard 30.5

9 - Billy Johnson 28

10 - Eric Metcalf 27

11 - Deion Sanders 24

What this shows, is that Sayers and Hester were lightening in a bottle. Deion was to some extent as well. Cribbs was last year, otherwise he may not have been last on this list without his 2009 numbers. Brian Mitchell is only on the list because he played for 14 years.

If I only consider the ratios, the rankings look like:

Gale Sayers 33

Devin Hester 30

Deion Sanders 22

Josh Cribbs 20

Billy Johnson 17

Rick Upchurch 16.5

Eric Metcalf 16

Dante Hall 14

Desmond Howard 12.5

Mel Gray 10

Brian Mitchell 7

@thaak said:

Just to prove my point, I redid the chart figuring Josh Cribbs without 2009.

This is the final order

Gale Sayers 48

Brian Mitchell 43.5

Mel Gray 42.5

Dante Hall 41.5

Devin Hester 37

Rick Upchurch 36.5

Josh Cribbs 34.5

Desmond Howard 31.5

Billy Johnson 29

Eric Metcalf 27

Deion Sanders 25

He still comes in 7th. Of course that goes to show what a phenomenal year he had in 2009 (4 return TDS).

@dawgpoundpitt said:

Yes, but even without last years stats, Cribbs still ends up in the middle of the pack. His average stays about the same, and his TDs drop by 3 total. So instead of being #2 on the list, he would be about #7. He's also been in the league 1 more year than Hester, and last year Hester didn't really do PR's anymore.

I just hope I can find this thread six months from now when I wanna call someone out on a Cribbs comparison.

@the-gipper said:

They may have required a certain minimum number of attempts, and Cribbs, in his short career may not have reached the minimum attempts required to be considered for the list.

I mean, its like, he holds the NFL record for most KO returns for a TD, but he hasn't had enough total returns to have his number count on their list!!

If true, that would just be further evidence of how phenomenal he is.

Go up a few posts and look at my raw stats. You'll see that Cribbs is middle of the pack in attempts, and there are a couple guys who have less than 100 attempts in both categories.

They may have required a certain minimum number of attempts, and Cribbs, in his short career may not have reached the minimum attempts required to be considered for the list.

I mean, its like, he holds the NFL record for most KO returns for a TD, but he hasn't had enough total returns to have his number count on their list!!

If true, that would just be further evidence of how phenomenal he is.

@thaak said:

Then I weighted them points 11 through 1 based on the place of each ranking. If there was a tie, I added the placements those tied players would take and divided by the number of players for their total points.

KR Ave

Gale Sayers 11

Josh Cribbs 10

Rick Upchurch 9

Mel Gray 8

Billy Johnson 7

Dante Hall 6

Brian Mitchell 5

Deion Sanders 3.5

Devin Hester 3.5

Desmond Howard 2

Eric Metcalf 1

KR TD's

Josh Cribbs 11

Dante Hall 9

Gale Sayers 9

Mel Gray 9

Brian Mitchell 6.5

Devin Hester 6.5

Deion Sanders 5

Eric Metcalf 3.5

Billy Johnson 3.5

Desmond Howard 1.5

Rick Upchurch 1.5

PR Ave

Gale Sayers 11

Rick Upchurch 10

Desmond Howard 9

Billy Johnson 8

Devin Hester 7

Josh Cribbs 6

Mel Gray 5

Brian Mitchell 4

Dante Hall 3

Deion Sanders 2

Eric Metcalf 1

PR TDs

Eric Metcalf 11

Brian Mitchell 10

Desmond Howard 8.5

Rick Upchurch 8.5

Devin Hester 7

Dante Hall 5

Deion Sanders 5

Billy Johnson 5

Mel Gray 3

Josh Cribbs 1.5

Gale Sayers 1.5

Total Ave

Gale Sayers 11

Josh Cribbs 10

Mel Gray 9

Dante Hall 8

Desmond Howard 7

Brian Mitchell 6

Devin Hester 5

Rick Upchurch 4

Deion Sanders 3

Billy Johnson 2

Eric Metcalf 1

Total TDs

Brian Mitchell 11

Dante Hall 9.5

Eric Metcalf 9.5

Devin Hester 8

Josh Cribbs 7

Mel Gray 5.5

Deion Sanders 5.5

Desmond Howard 2.5

Gale Sayers 2.5

Rick Upchurch 2.5

Billy Johnson 2.5

Final Rankings

Gale Sayers 46

Josh Cribbs 45.5

Brian Mitchell 42.5

Dante Hall 40.5

Mel Gray 39.5

Devin Hester 37

Rick Upchurch 35.5

Desmond Howard 30.5

Billy Johnson 28

Eric Metcalf 27

Deion Sanders 24

Nice job. Maybe you should forward that data to the NFL Network and let them see the error of their ways.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/09000d...or-third-season

@the-gipper said:

Ok, I ranked them in Average KR, KR TDs, Average PR, KR TD, Total Average KR, Total TDs

Then I weighted them points 11 through 1 based on the place of each ranking. If there was a tie, I added the placements those tied players would take and divided by the number of players for their total points.

KR Ave

Gale Sayers 11

Josh Cribbs 10

Rick Upchurch 9

Mel Gray 8

Billy Johnson 7

Dante Hall 6

Brian Mitchell 5

Deion Sanders 3.5

Devin Hester 3.5

Desmond Howard 2

Eric Metcalf 1

KR TD's

Josh Cribbs 11

Dante Hall 9

Gale Sayers 9

Mel Gray 9

Brian Mitchell 6.5

Devin Hester 6.5

Deion Sanders 5

Eric Metcalf 3.5

Billy Johnson 3.5

Desmond Howard 1.5

Rick Upchurch 1.5

PR Ave

Gale Sayers 11

Rick Upchurch 10

Desmond Howard 9

Billy Johnson 8

Devin Hester 7

Josh Cribbs 6

Mel Gray 5

Brian Mitchell 4

Dante Hall 3

Deion Sanders 2

Eric Metcalf 1

PR TDs

Eric Metcalf 11

Brian Mitchell 10

Desmond Howard 8.5

Rick Upchurch 8.5

Devin Hester 7

Dante Hall 5

Deion Sanders 5

Billy Johnson 5

Mel Gray 3

Josh Cribbs 1.5

Gale Sayers 1.5

Total Ave

Gale Sayers 11

Josh Cribbs 10

Mel Gray 9

Dante Hall 8

Desmond Howard 7

Brian Mitchell 6

Devin Hester 5

Rick Upchurch 4

Deion Sanders 3

Billy Johnson 2

Eric Metcalf 1

Total TDs

Brian Mitchell 11

Dante Hall 9.5

Eric Metcalf 9.5

Devin Hester 8

Josh Cribbs 7

Mel Gray 5.5

Deion Sanders 5.5

Desmond Howard 2.5

Gale Sayers 2.5

Rick Upchurch 2.5

Billy Johnson 2.5

Final Rankings

Gale Sayers 46

Josh Cribbs 45.5

Brian Mitchell 42.5

Dante Hall 40.5

Mel Gray 39.5

Devin Hester 37

Rick Upchurch 35.5

Desmond Howard 30.5

Billy Johnson 28

Eric Metcalf 27

Deion Sanders 24

@dave said:

My guess is that fumbles weren't recorded as an official stat that early on.

@roach said:

It was made a few weeks ago.

Kick Returns 426 returns for 10,136 yards, 23.8 average, 6TDs, and 10 Fumbles

Punt Returns 216 returns for 2,261 yards, 10.5 average, 6 TDS, and 6 Fumbles

Desmond Howard

Kick Returns 359 returns for 7,959 yards, 22.2 average, 0 TDS, 4 Fumbles

Punt returns 244 returns for 2,895 yards, 11.9 average, 8 TDS, 7 Fumbles

Eric Metcalf

Kick Returns 280 returns for 5,813 yards, 20.8 average, 2 TDS, 3 Fumbles

Punt Returns 351 returns for 3,453 yards, 9.8 average, 10 TDS, 26 Fumbles

Gale Sayers

Kick Returns 91 returns for 2,781 yards, 30.6 average, 6 TDS, 0 Fumbles

Punt Returns 27 returns for 391 yards, 14.5 average, 2 TDS, 0 Fumbles

Rick Upchurch

Kick Returns 95 returns for 2,355 yards, 24.8 average, 0 TDS, 0 Fumbles

Punt Returns 248 returns for 3,008 yards, 12.1 average, 8 TDS, 0 Fumbles

Mel Gray

Kick Returns 421 returns for 10,250 yards, 24.3 average, 6 TDS, 9 Fumbles

Punt Returns 252 returns for 2,753 yards, 10.9 average, 3 TDS, 7 Fumbles

Deion Sanders

Kick Returns 155 returns for 3,523 yards, 22.7 average, 3 TDS, 4 Fumbles

Punt Returns 212 returns for 2,199 yards, 10.4 average, 6 TDS, 5 Fumbles

Billy Johnson

Kick Returns 123 returns for 2,941 yards, 23.9 average, 2 TDS, 0 Fumbles

Punt Returns 282 returns for 3,317 yards, 11.8 average, 6 TDS, 0 Fumbles

Brian Mitchell

Kick Returns 607 returns for 14,014 yards, 23.1 average, 4 TDS, 14 Fumbles

Punt Returns 463 returns for 4,999 yards, 10.8 average, 9 TDS, 19 fumbles

Devin Hester

Kick Returns 101 returns for 2,297 yards, 22.7 average, 4 TDS, 5 Fumbles

Punt Returns 145 returns for 1,636 yards, 11.3 average, 7 TDS, 15 Fumbles

Josh Cribbs

Kick Returns 265 returns for 7,049 yards, 26.6 average, 8 TDS, 6 Fumbles

Punt Returns 103 returns for 1,141 yards, 11.1 average, 2 TDS, 7 Fumbles

Based on the above stats, I can't see how Josh isn't at least in the middle of the pack, and how the hell Hester even made the list, let alone #1.

@theclevelandsound said:

10. Dante Hall

9. Desmond Howard

8. Eric Metcalf

7. Gale Sayers

6. Rick Upchurch

5. Mel Gray

4. Deion Sanders

3. Billy Johnson

2. Brian Mitchell

1. Devin Hester

Ok, how the hell does JC not make the list? He is better than any one of those guys and has broken all of their records. It can't be because he is still in the league because so is Devin Hester. Im outraged! Help me out here.

The only thing I can think is that though Cribbs is the all time leader in Kickoff Returns, he only has 2 punt returns for TDs in his career.

You know who the leader in career punt returns for TDs is? Another Cleveland Brown. Eric Metcalf. Though not all of his PR TDs were with the Browns.

@theclevelandsound said:

Ok, how the hell does JC not make the list? He is better than any one of those guys and has broken all of their records. It can't be because he is still in the league because so is Devin Hester. Im outraged! Help me out here.

Well, Josh hasn't broken all of their records. A lot of the guys on that list are on it due to longevity, Like Mitchell, who probably put the # of kickoff returns out of reach. Heavily skewed to punt returns too, and if you factor that in Josh is good, but not in the top 25 (PRs). Metcalf's on the list because of his 10 punt return TDs. Gayle Sayers had an incredible 30+ yards per return on KOs, so that's why he rates. Yeah, I'm old enough to have seen him play, and he was an earlier version of Eric Metcalf with his moves.

But I agree, to put Hester #1, and not even have Josh on the list is an insult.

I loved Gale Sayers & would have him right there with Cribbs in the excitement category, but Sayers was too often injured. If you factor in speed, moves, power, durability, & results, Josh Cribbs is in a class by himself.

It is just my opinion that JC is the best of the bunch & I'll not change my mind.

Mike

@theclevelandsound said:

10. Dante Hall

9. Desmond Howard

8. Eric Metcalf

7. Gale Sayers

6. Rick Upchurch

5. Mel Gray

4. Deion Sanders

3. Billy Johnson

2. Brian Mitchell

1. Devin Hester

Ok, how the hell does JC not make the list? He is better than any one of those guys and has broken all of their records. It can't be because he is still in the league because so is Devin Hester. Im outraged! Help me out here.

unbelievable. cribbs should be somewhere on that list.

I am not going to do any research, but maybe average per touch played a part in the rankings.....I can tell you right now i would rather have Deion Sanders, Sayers, and maybe even Gray.

But I understand your point. Cribbs deserves mention. He's earned it.