nmills said:

When there's excitement on the field, I'm on my feet with everyone else. When the majority of fans are sitting, I don't want some goober standing for no reason, yucking it up over how much fun he's having blocking my view for 15 minutes. Silly me. I paid for my tickets and want to see the game, not some guy's back.

@ballpeen said:

Also, I am talking the vast majority of opposing fans....not the 1-2 percent who don't know how to act.

It simply boils down to what Holmgren said...we need to be nice because Cleveland is getting a rep as a Philly of sorts.

We don't want that.

I agree, however the most important thing that Holmgren said is that winning will cure a lot too. That's on them. We ain't like Philly or any other fan base, because we still have a HUGE rabid fan base and have never even made it to the show (in so many mounting generations). That's on the Browns ... there are too many pissed off fans leaving Cleveland Browns Stadium and frustrations mount.

Opposing fans look a lot sweeter leaving our house after watching their visiting team get beat, soildly beat.

When there isn't much to do except get drunk ... When the party is more fun prior to the game ... when getting drunk becomes a means of stomaching the poor football displayed ... shit's gonna happen, bad shit's gonna happen. Dominate and make this city proud and you will see a more festive crowd and less angry drunks.

Oh ... and ... suck on this Carmen Policy, you prick. Carmen never understood the above concept because it came too easy for him in San Fagcisco. White linen, suits, and wine and cheese don't make for a happy outing. Winning makes for a happy outing.

Strap it on boys, forget everything else and freaking dominate. Holmgren better get his priorities straight right now or it is going to be a long tenure.

No excuses.

Win ... then talk.

Also, I am talking the vast majority of opposing fans....not the 1-2 percent who don't know how to act.

It simply boils down to what Holmgren said...we need to be nice because Cleveland is getting a rep as a Philly of sorts.

We don't want that.

@ballpeen said:

I can't speak for open container laws....some slack up and some don't, but it isn't about getting drunk.

It is about going to a game with fellow fans....of both sides... to cheer for your team....a place that includes women and children...real men don't cuss in front of women and children...at least more than a damn or shit under the breath.

I seriously doubt any fan of another team rubbed anything in your face...unless you consider cheering for their team rubbing it in.....if they score, they are supposed to sit there all quiet and somber?? Serious question.

Remember this....it's not their fault their team is kicking our ass.

It's a football game man....nothing more.

When I was a kid people went to church, then went to the game....look at the old pics....people were dressed up....they didn't sit around binge drinking at 7am more intent on tossing beer at other fans....they went to root for the team.....and rooting for the team had nothing to do with acting like a fool.

I really wish the Browns dumped the entire Dawg Pound theme...the fact is "Dawg Pounders" never saw a championship and somewhere along the way the exaggerated stories that manifested through the years somehow became what you thought you needed to become.

Trust me here.....it isn't.

RE: having a drunkfest before the game- bad form, and counterproductive. Why spend all that money and pass out before the first quarter is over?

'Peen I've thought about this a bit- and I suppose we all draw lines in the sand at different places. At what point do the visitors cross the line and cheering for your team becomes taunting? Case in point would be the a-hole who wore the LeBron Miami jersey to the Indians game- he didn't even have to say a word to get major s**t from the fans- (maybe that was his intent to get his 10 minutes of fame) and if I had been at the game, I would have let him hear it too. In my book, running up and down the aisle waving the opposing jersey or turning around and flipping everybody off after you've scored is grounds for a peanut and beer barrage. Some Steeler fan did that in front of me, he'd likely "accidentally" get a beer spilled on his seat.

The times they are a Changin' at games- and they have to. Bottlegate begat the cups- yeah I was there- really, if you can toss an empty plastic 16 ouncer farther than 50 feet- the Indians want to talk to you. That wasn't the problem. What was worrisome was the idiots tossing fully loaded brewskis (I hope they weren't peeskis, but I have my doubts) out of the upper deck.

And way before the 9-11 BS there was a mighty good reason glass containers got banned at the Stadium. For the young 'uns I'll tell the tale. 'Twas late in the fourth quarter of a Browns- Oilers contest and the Oilers were driving towards what would become the Dawg Pound. There was a horrendously bad pass interference call on the Browns- and then it happened- and you didn't need HDTV to see what was going on. There was an unbelievable barrage of anything that wasn't tied down out of the stands- MD 20\20s, beer bottles, empty Jack fifths- you name it. There was busted glass exploding everywhere. I thought to myself, OMG, if someone gets tackled on that stuff they could get an artery severed. Well, the refs wisely made the teams change ends- and that was the end of glass at the stadium.

I haven't become anything your not, im just a fan that goes to cheer to. I've never even been to a tailgate, but if somebody wants to go there and party it up that's there choice. And you bring up throwing bottles like it happens all the time, it doesn't, its not the norm. People have emotions and sometimes when your passionate enough about something you emotions take control of you, were human beings.

Lastly I dont wanna hear about the old days. In the old days slave's did all the work, women were stuck in the house doing chores, and the men were bootlegging moonshine. In the old days LSD and Marijuana were legal. The past got us to the future, dont blame me.

nmills said:

Im not condoning fighting and mistreating other Browns fans, Im saying if an opposing fan wants to rub it in my face every time his team makes a play then I feel obligated to tell him to STFU. If I wanna stand up and cheer, I should be able to without being asked to sit down. If you cant see, stand up and cheer with me.

If I wanna get drunk and tailgate before a game I should be able to do that without being arrested for open container. Eliminating alcohol doesn't eliminate idiots, footballs an emotional game, theres gonna be foul language and scuffles once in a while. Its the nature of the beast.

You have it all wrong man.

I can't speak for open container laws....some slack up and some don't, but it isn't about getting drunk.

It is about going to a game with fellow fans....of both sides... to cheer for your team....a place that includes women and children...real men don't cuss in front of women and children...at least more than a damn or shit under the breath.

I seriously doubt any fan of another team rubbed anything in your face...unless you consider cheering for their team rubbing it in.....if they score, they are supposed to sit there all quiet and somber?? Serious question.

Remember this....it's not their fault their team is kicking our ass.

It's a football game man....nothing more.

When I was a kid people went to church, then went to the game....look at the old pics....people were dressed up....they didn't sit around binge drinking at 7am more intent on tossing beer at other fans....they went to root for the team.....and rooting for the team had nothing to do with acting like a fool.

I really wish the Browns dumped the entire Dawg Pound theme...the fact is "Dawg Pounders" never saw a championship and somewhere along the way the exaggerated stories that manifested through the years somehow became what you thought you needed to become.

Trust me here.....it isn't.

nmills said:

Im not condoning fighting and mistreating other Browns fans, Im saying if an opposing fan wants to rub it in my face every time his team makes a play then I feel obligated to tell him to STFU. If I wanna stand up and cheer, I should be able to without being asked to sit down. If you cant see, stand up and cheer with me.

If I wanna get drunk and tailgate before a game I should be able to do that without being arrested for open container. Eliminating alcohol doesn't eliminate idiots, footballs an emotional game, theres gonna be foul language and scuffles once in a while. Its the nature of the beast.

Could not agree more; just have fun folks...and cheer; be loud

Im not condoning fighting and mistreating other Browns fans, Im saying if an opposing fan wants to rub it in my face every time his team makes a play then I feel obligated to tell him to STFU. If I wanna stand up and cheer, I should be able to without being asked to sit down. If you cant see, stand up and cheer with me.

If I wanna get drunk and tailgate before a game I should be able to do that without being arrested for open container. Eliminating alcohol doesn't eliminate idiots, footballs an emotional game, theres gonna be foul language and scuffles once in a while. Its the nature of the beast.

@atenears said:

Either that, or I'll just leave the Hag at home, she gives me a bad name with her actions.

Maybe so, but she makes you better.....I like the Hag....You married up.....I did too....that's a good thing

nmills said:

Sorry Mills....we usually agree, but here we don't. I'll be 64 soon enough....and trashing other fans has nothing to do with Browns tradition.

Being called some of the best fans in football has noting to do with trashing other fans and acting the ass.

It has EVERYTHING to do with being class in our actions.

Ask a few of the other older Dawgs who went to games with your Mama and Daddy on a early date....it has nothing to do with harassing some guy in a different color.....if it was, it was done by the people you don't want to become.

Grow up

@sisky-fringo said:

was this the first year they allowed psl's to be changed like that?

All of the seats that were offered were either 500 level, or big buck club level. Willing to shell out $5,300 a year- + the PSL + club fees for two tickets? I've sat there a couple of times- other than the bars and restrooms being a lot nicer (and heated) the view IMHO isn't 4X better.

To answer your question, you've always been able to request an upgrade to your season tickets when you send in your payment. It almost never happens though- because people own the PSL it's far more profitable to sell them on e-Bay or Craiglist. It's really unusual for a premium (and by that I mean 100 level) PSLs to revert to the Browns and come up for grabs. Those seats get handed down in wills, or sold for big bucks. I saw a listing on e-Bay for 40 yard line seats- and the guy was asking $5,000 a seat.

On a personal note, we've put in for seat improvement every year since we got in the 100 level, and after seven seasons, we finally got improved- one section closer to the 50, same row.

On the subject of jerk fans- yeah I've seen a few (both Browns and opposing teams). My feeling is act respectable, get treated respectable. Act like an a-hole, well time to get escorted out.

Either that, or I'll just leave the Hag at home, she gives me a bad name with her actions.

Dont be loud dont be proud just sit there and watch the failsauce in silent agony or just get up and head to one of the local pubs as the opposing teams fans whoop it up and have a good time, just smile and say thanks if they dump a beer on ya and claim that municipal stadium now belongs to them, because you know it does...

liquid retaliation is at least PG-13/NC-17.

@sisky-fringo said:

even with a nod here and there there's still plenty left to criticize.

I might be "that guy" but when they cheer when we fumble or int Im the one to throw my beer at him/her I thought thats why you were there

@medicineman said:

oh you can hate them, just can't deny them what they genuinely earned without looking bad imo. genuinely being the operative term here, so that keeps most of those rings in "hate play" too.

even with a nod here and there there's still plenty left to criticize.

was this the first year they allowed psl's to be changed like that?

@peterbell said:

its over the top

FYI, I moved my seats because the Browns fans sitting in the seats in front of mine were horribly obnoxious. They'd get drunk and scream obscenities at the Browns and stand up when there was nothing to stand up for, blocking the view of the field for those behind them. When they weren't yelling AT the team (rather than FOR it) they were just generally screwing around being rowdy and rude to other Browns fans. I finally asked them why they even bothered to come to games if it made them so miserable to be there. They proceeded to turn on me, of course.

I go to games to WATCH the games and not to deal with the people sitting around me. I also don't really want to be in the "family" section. I want an "adult" experience without feeling as though I have to protect myself from those who go overboard. The line here is when Browns fans are inconsiderate of other Browns fans. We're all on the same side and should act like it and enjoy the experience together.

I agree with Holmgren when he says that when the team starts winning, the fans behavior will improve.