Homotron said:

The thing is: I don't believe any rule has been changed. A hit to the helmet of a QB has always been a penalty. (and OK, sometimes they are missed like the other night.).

Maybe what has been changed is the issuance of a fine for some of this.

Like I said, if Ngata had just got the helmet and not gotten into the dude's nose and broken it, would he have been fined?

I don't believe so. Certainly not before the more stringer enforcement.

@kosar_for_president said:

If we're following the rules to the letter a blow to the helmet is a BLOW TO THE HELMET so yes a fine was deserved. Tap Tom Brady's helmet and it's a 15 yard penalty and with the rule change possibly a fine. Front runners lol. How about just wanting some consistency with the officiating?

@spunkonmyback-dpoy said:

If you didn't notice there are threads about the Bills, Ravens, and Broncos on here to. Then again you squeeler fans refuse to acknowledge that isnt piss colored. ..... just sayin

Why are you on a Browns board bitching about what Browns fan talk about? If it bothers you that much then leave. ..... just sayin

We dont bitch about squeeler fans being here. We bitch when you act like retarted monkeys who aren't smart enough to realize your throwing your own feces at each other. There has been quite a few people who actually come to talk football which none of you do...... just sayin

We bitch when you refuse to see anything from outside the box. With you squeeler trolls it's always im right your wrong now go away. ..... just sayin

We bitch because you start threads on a Browns forum to complain about how unfair the league is to the steelers even though most of us seen the refs hand you a game or two weather it was against us or any other team in the NFL..... just sayin

Your coming to a Browns board to try and get sympathy for a team that isnt the Browns and you get all pissed off when we tell you how it is. Why you trolls dont post this stuff on squeeler boards beats me. I guess your waiting for our approval or something.... just sayin

Formerly Stone said:

On the contrary....it is where YOUR delusions have kicked in. Paranoid delusions. The Men in Black are after you Stone.

I hate what the NFL has been doing for a long time, since Pete Rozelle forced "parity" down our throats. I'm a purist and I loved the old dynasties.

As I see it, the only things that are truly designed to foster parity are: A. The draft which gives the worst teams the highest picks, thus supposedly assuring that those worst teams will get the best players. Well, we know that that may work for some, but how has it worked for the Lions, Bills, and the Browns the last 10-12 years? A team that drafts the Courtney Browns and William Greens and Gerard Warrens of the world screw that design up, don't they?

B. The schedule, which is supposed to give the last place teams the easier schedules, and the first place teams the harder schedule. How has that worked out? The Browns who were a last place team last year have by far the hardest schedule in the NFL this year. I believe it is the Bears who have had the "easiest" schedule.

Also, as far as I can tell, the "dynasty" is still with us. Certainly the Patriots are one of the best dynasties in history. Until this season I believe the Colts have set the record for most consecutive seasons with 12 or 10 wins...something like that.

If there is anything that has taken away from "dynasty building", it is probably free agency. But, as the Pats have shown,..and even the 49ers before that, as long your have the right Coach and QB combination in place you can still have a dynasty.

I hate the rule changes that have produced offensive slug fests and NFC teams that play flag football and piss poor defenses.

Well, those rules have been in place a long time. Since the early 80s at least. And to my mind it is still the teams that play the best defense that generally have the best chance of success. Yes, a good 13-10 game like we had the other night can be very entertaining. But so can a 45-41 game be.

If this were happening to the Browns (kindof an oxy-moron.....but) I would still hate it because while I realize that Goodell inherited a shitstorm as head warden of the prison population known as the NFL, I hate what he is doing even more!

What makes you think this isn't happening to the Browns? The Browns have to live by the same rules as every other NFL team, so, indeed "it"...whatever "it" is, is happening to the Browns.

I think the Steelers will get over it. They got rid of Joey Porter on their defense....and others....and didn't miss a beat. If James Harrison can't abide, then he can go away, and your DC will fit in someone to do just as well, I am sure....someone who will play by the rules.

Formerly Stone said:

Hypocritical BS?

If it weren't your boy who is bearing the brunt of this situation you would probably have not word 1 to say about it.

If it were a Browns player who were in the shoes of Harrison you would have Goodell back four square.

@spunkonmyback-dpoy said:

:lol: :lol:

Actually, thats exactly what I was aiming to get YOU to do!

:lol: :lol:

@brownsbacker said:

1. Go back to school and learn to read.

2. Reread the first sentence of the first post on this thread.

3. Take down the attempted smart ass comment you tried to make.

Formerly Stone said:

Well, technically it's flaming, but it's more of the old "we're great, you suck" rag that in general won't be tolerated.

@spunkonmyback-dpoy said:

Last time I checked, Jameel McClain was a Raven.

The conserversy stemming from the Sunday night game has a lot to do with the league wide cries that Goodell and the refs target Harrison/the Steelers. It's one thing for Harrison, Ward, Troy and so on to make the claim. They have been saying it all year, but it never got all that much attention because it was Steelers defending Steelers at that point...In the week leading to this past game Brain Urlacher, Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Suggs all defended Harrison hit from the previous week that got him flagged and fined. Suggs went as far as to say Harrison is "red flagged" by the refs and the league. It was at that point the claim Harrison has been unfairly targeted took root and the NFL had to release a statement saying the claims from all these players is false. How often do professional sports leagues have to release statements saying they and the refs don't target a certian player after cries from rival players insisting the league is unfair to the rival player? I've never seen anything similiar to that happening in all my years of watching all kinds of sports.

During the game it was very evident the Ravens got away with 3 very obvious penalties involving hits and the qb. This coming 7 days after Harrison was flagged for a clean, textbook hit. All this happening on national TV for the world to see had the NFL scrambling to save face. The league called NBC and told the announcers the hit on Miller should have been flagged. Since when do current league employees contact tv networks during a game to admitt a ref's mistake? I've never seen anything similiar to that happening in all my years of watching all kinds of sports.

Ngata's hit on Ben certianly shoudl have been a flag. Goodelll has previously stated any contact to a qb's head is an automatic flag. Personally, it should NOT have drawn a fine. It was accidental. Although, Goodell has also previously stated the defenders are responsibile for avoiding helmet contact during hits and tackles. Goodell would defend his fine of Ngati under the premise Ngati should have been more careful and made certian his hand stayed away from Ben's head. Personally, that's BS because it is such a fast pace and physical game, but Goodell has fined others for the same reasoning so he has done it before.

McClain's hit on Miller should have resulted in both a flag and a fine. I'm okay with the amount being $40k. Earlier this season Goodell said he would suspend players for devastating helmet-to-helmet hits on defenseless recievers even if the hit was largely accidental and even if the tackler has no previous offenses. If Goodell was seroius about those threats the McClain hit would have resulted in a suspension. I'm glad McClain has not been suspended for his hit. I think hits should only draw suspensions if their was intent to injure. Goodell's threats of suspension proving to be nothing but empty words is good for the game of football.

Late in the 4th on the final drive Suggs pulled on Ben's helmet in an attempt to make a tackle. It's illegal to tackle players by the helmet (usaully it happens with the facemask) and has been for decades. With a recent surge to protect qbs there is no excuse for the refs to have missed this call either. Suggs shouldn't be fined for the infractions and he wasn't.

Formerly Stone said:

You spew alot of the same hatred, you just come off as a teeny bit less abrasive. While you do attempt to make some intelligent posts, the inner-troll within you does come out from under its bridge alot.

Formerly Stone said:

The bottom line is that due to the NFL's blind eye toward HGH and steroid use, the players in the NFL get bigger, faster, stronger, and more agile every year! You now have 270 pound linebackers who have the strength and agility to inflict unprecedented injury. The players who don't want to use HGH and steroids are faced with either being injured or cut if they don't.

And instead of fighting a battle against HGH and steroids which cause this superhuman increase, the NFL is changing rules that have worked for decades. All the time, preaching player safety, while they increase the number of games to 18 which will certainly create more injuries.

This hypocrisy is what has me pisses off!

The fact that the Steelers are the center of this bull shit, because they play physical, pisses me off even more! There was never a single word about James Harrison being dirty until Roger Goodell started his personal power trip!

I don't necessarily agree with your choice of 'bottom line.'

HGH and steroids certainly contribute to the problem but human beings are taller and larger overall for a variety of reasons and not just chemical enhancement. Movie theaters and stadiums (or stadia, if you prefer) contained seats that many people could no longer fit in. Any of you who have seats from old Cleveland Browns stadium may notice that it's a tighter squeeze than you expected when you try to sit. Even youngsters in pretty good shape might find that to be the case. Whether steroids are a cause or not, the athletes are not going to shrink. It's not like you're going to find the magic plug, pull it, and everyone will be shorter, smaller and slower. So, the only choice is to deal with the situation as it is now.

Let's, for the sake of argument, assume that Roger Goodell is not just on a power trip. What other possible motivation might there be for cracking down on enforcement of these rules? I'm guessing it's not just one thing.

Owners do have to protect their investment. You can yell all you want about the "greed" of the owners but that just kicks off the philosophical discussion of where we draw the line between successful business and greedy excess. As the economy is in flux, the line becomes a moving target.

When you ignore any unflattering motivations of the team owners and the commissioner, distilling the arguments down to their most noble, then player safety seems to me to be the prime impetus that makes the most sense. The fact that they are big boys and knew what they were getting into doesn't really fly when their families and often the taxpayers wind up footing the bill for choices that are made under all sorts of varying influences.

It's been made clear to me that the nature of the game will not suffer if the players comply with these rules. I don't see the downside.

@vaportrail said:

speaking of the days when we were a good football team...

They are changing the league to be less physical. Tough hard hits are not going to be around much longer. They protect Brady and Manning way too much. The hit to Rothlesburgher should in no way be fineable.

They are listening to Andy Reid's argument that even when a QB takes off running, he should not be able to be tackled like a running back. Yes, they are possibly going to allow more protection than the sliding.

The Sunday night game that just happened between the Rats and Squeelers is the last of a dying breed.

I don't like it, but that's the way it's heading. And overall, it's not going to be good for us as Cleveland fans. Cold weather, running, physical defense type teams (which is what we are trying to be) are going by the wayside.

Basketball allows the superstars to shine to improve scoring. Baseball juices the ball and loves the long homerun. It puts fans in the seats. Football is going to the passing, poster boy high scoring QB superstar.

Its good for business.

Formerly Stone said:

Steve Courson informed us all and Jim Haslett added support.

Formerly Stone said:

The bottom line is that due to the NFL's blind eye toward HGH and steroid use, the players in the NFL get bigger, faster, stronger, and more agile every year! You now have 270 pound linebackers who have the strength and agility to inflict unprecedented injury. The players who don't want to use HGH and steroids are faced with either being injured or cut if they don't.

And instead of fighting a battle against HGH and steroids which cause this superhuman increase, the NFL is changing rules that have worked for decades. All the time, preaching player safety, while they increase the number of games to 18 which will certainly create more injuries.

This hypocrisy is what has me pissed off!

This is where you flash a picture of the six Super Bowl trophies and turn a blindeye to the poster child team of HGH use (insert waving yellow towel here).

Endymion said:

are you serious? you and a lot of people like you are fxxkin nuts. have they really sissified the game? show me proof. you mean you can't watch an nfl football if it doesn't contain at least one spine jarring hit? i guess you're a fan of dog fighting too. maybe we should be back the gladiator games just for you. do us all a favor and move to spain where they don't have the nfl but you can catch a bull fight on sundays.

Endymion said:

2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.

Hey dick-for-chin, I was responding to the comment that Harrison was "trying to go low" and as the picture clearly show, no matter whether you notch it up or back a few frames is that he is extended upwards. So you fail in knowing what is up or down.

Endymion said:

1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.

In response to kshutchins:

3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.

To answer- no it was ridiculous- and inadvertent. However, I just took a look at the YouTube of the play where Ben got his nose broken- and I didn't see ANYTHING dirty about it either.

Regarding the hits- we've had coaches comment here that helmets (at least for the aggressor) have gotten TOO good. You can now spear with your head with about zero risk of injury. The recipient isn't as lucky. It's the equivalent of whiplash in a car collision. And there's mounting evidence repeated concussions are real bad for you long term. You can play hard, and hit hard- without trying to take a guy's head off. Harrison's burial of Flacco is very good evidence of that.

1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.

In response to Atenears:

2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.

In response to kshutchins:

3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.

I don't recall seeing these brain-jarring hits back in the Jim Brown era. Maybe they occurred, but I don't remember them. I also don't recall the game being any less exciting than the modern game.

It really doesn't matter if these hits were ever legal or part of the game. The fact is, we've learned a lot about the consequences of the hits and the long term after effects of severe blows to the head. It would be irresponsible of the league to ignore the consequences and allow increased violence to continue unchecked. We also know that athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger than they used to be. Even if the same sorts of blows were delivered back in the day, the consequences would not have been as severe.

Even if the league is not concerned with the health and well-being of the players, they should be concerned with their own pockets because I suspect that eventually they will end up paying for the care of the severely debilitated players and their families.

Endymion said:

He made a nice try (to go low) ... I believe he is lower than the goal post.

Formerly Stone said:

The fact that neither of these were called on the field is rather disturbing as well!

Oh and you guys have been on here for weeks crying that Harrison shouldn't have been fined for those hits against the Browns because no penalties were called!!!! Bunch of hypocrites.

1) Shaun Rodgers got a 15 yard penalty Sunday for TOUCHING Henne's helmet.

2) What part of progressive discipline don't you Steeler boogers get? Prior to the Massaquoi hit Harrison had already been fined, (and warned). Two weeks ago, he was still up to his old leading with his head stunts, so he got fined again. It seems that JH finally got the message against the Ravens- because I saw a crushing (and totally legal) hit he laid on Flacco.

Endymion said:

Also, I don't see how you can suspend a player (or even threaten to) for on the field plays when you don't suspend them for fist-fighting (which is an intentional act). Then again, I don't know how that player from New England who launched his helmet into Todd Heap's head didn't get suspended or fined more than James Harrison.

Harrison is a REPEAT offender and that is why his fines are so much. Roid rage will make you do stupid things.