@hillis4mayor1 said:

In Gruden We Trust!

so now you are tight with Holmgren

Also, Here is an article I found on Warren Sapp's take on Dungy vs. Gruden: http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bu...ticle643685.ece

*Specifically look at "So who deserves the most credit for winning the Super Bowl? Dungy or Gruden?"

@rich4eagle said:

Great defenses are few and far between.

Franchise QB's are not nearly as rare and have staying power.

I DO NOT EVER WANT TO SEE JON GRUDEN ON THE SIDELINES FOR THE BROWNS..............

he is more smoke than substance

What I do want to see is a coach who understands how to scheme on defense and is offensive minded. I like to believe that Holmgren thinks that way too.

Heckert is proving to a good GM and Holmgren a good President

I like Mangini but get bewildered by the ultra conservatism on offense and the need to play a washed up Jake.

I do not want Mangini fired especially to replace him with the likes of Gruden which would be a move backward

But if Holmgren sees the next genius that actually is focusing on scoring instead being close............I am all for a new coach

But he better have a record of building offensive powerhouses and stellar defense

Gruden does NOT fit that bill

The Browns have come a long way from the total garbage that Sewage left pardon the pun.

My track record says my judgement has been way good over the years.

We may have a real QB for the first time since Bernie..............now let's get him some weapons and a coach who thinks offense

If Mangini stays he better show that next year or else we need a change

and if Holmgren makes the change now hope that is not Gruden........because that is going backward

Like I said a thousand times to get criticized as opposed to popular opinion Offense Wins championships and we need a coach that focuses on Offense........I think Holmgren thinks that way too......if Mangini cannot adjust time to move on but NOT to Gruden

You know, I bust your chops a lot Rich. But I have to say I agree with what you have to say here.

@rich4eagle said:

Do you really think you can buly me around by patting yourself on the back?

Just so you know, last year I played madden on coaching mode and won it all.

I would talk footbal with ya if you could choose one side of the fence.

How great were the Giants after he left?

And yeah tell me how many games he won in the playoffs in all those years without Belichick telling him what to do???

Go for it.

Meanwhile, I am not going into a pissing contest with an obvious football genius. YOU

I got better things to do.

Now if you want to discuss why I have my positions rather that supposing that I am just pissing in the wind

Let's talk .......otherwise buzz off

Every where parcell went he left the team in better shape.

Maybe talking football just not your game, how bout a spelling contest?

@wrrebel said:

You can't compare gruden to mangini. Its like comparing bill parcells and jim mora.

When he comes here you guys will be happy!

Well Parcells never won a playoff game that Belichick was not an assistant so that tell me your football acumen. I get it and got it..................you keep up if you can

and please listen sometimes because a few of us KNOW the game

@wrrebel said:

You can't compare gruden to mangini. Its like comparing bill parcells and jim mora.

When he comes here you guys will be happy!

anyone with a brain larger than a pea is happy you don't call the shots too.

Those who support Gruden want to throw out records, Super Bowl, etc. Fine.

But just answer this question. What would our record be today, after thirteen games, with everything that's happened at QB, with Jon Gruden as our head coach?

@miktoxic said:

so you want the flash-in-the-pan win one super bowl and then suck for another decade like tampa after gruden? how do our arch rivals continue to win over and over again. stability which stems from a good foundation from top to bottom.

Not a flash in the pan. His teams were 9-7 each of his last two years... then fell apart after he left.

The Tampa Bay team he won the Super Bowl with was old. Lean times were inevitable.

In Gruden We Trust!

@shepwrite said:

so you want the flash-in-the-pan win one super bowl and then suck for another decade like tampa after gruden? how do our arch rivals continue to win over and over again. stability which stems from a good foundation from top to bottom.

@miktoxic said:

and FFFF gruden.

It depends. Stability in and of itself isn't good. That's like saying you're going to start Ryan Leaf for the next decade no matter what happens... for the sake of stability. The Browns have, for the most part, been stable. That is, they've consistently sucked since the return.

When you have things right, primarily at QB and HC, you try to keep it for as long as possible. Do the Browns have the right head coach for the long term? To the point of keeping him in the name of stability?

I think there's a strong chance we'll finish 6-10 after finishing 5-11. I'm not sure that's a case for stability.

And teams change coaching staffs and win immediately all the time, often because there was talent on the roster but not the right schemes or coaches. Atlanta, the Jets, Baltimore, KC, St. Louis, Tampa Bay... they all won in either year one or year two. It seems to be more likely to yield MORE wins than less.

You can't compare gruden to mangini. Its like comparing bill parcells and jim mora.

When he comes here you guys will be happy!

@rich4eagle said:

Like I said I am not proclaiming Mangini is the answer. I am saying he has done a pretty good job so far with nothing work with but his offensive decisions concern me.

What I AM SAYING IS PLEASE NO GRUDEN...........we don't need another overhyped mediocre coach

Gruden inherited good teams with a lot of talent and when he left both they were losers

It's 95-81. It's a good record.

and FFFF gruden.

Like I said I am not proclaiming Mangini is the answer. I am saying he has done a pretty good job so far with nothing work with but his offensive decisions concern me.

What I AM SAYING IS PLEASE NO GRUDEN...........we don't need another overhyped mediocre coach

Gruden inherited good teams with a lot of talent and when he left both they were losers

Gruden coached for 11 seasons. He won 5 division championships. He had 6 winning seasons, 8 at .500 or above. He won a Super Bowl. He was 95-81 overall.

Mangini has losing records with two franchises. Overall he's 33-44. He's never won anything.

How is that better? I honestly don't get it.