@flugel said:

Excellent post, Flugs. I can see DQ, Maualuga, and Wimbley/Hall being every bit as good as Mayo, Crable, and Spikes.

Perhaps if we bring a Pioli in here, this could be us. Ahh, to dream...

@ballpeen said:

The odds are we are getting about all we can from the guy.

Good players don't need coaches to find ways to make the effective.

JMO

bad ones do, though, and if we're stuck with him, it's up to the coaches to make him as effective as he can be.

and, because we don't have a winning structure in place where vets can really keep rookies in check, character unfortunately has to be a high-level concern.

Aloysius said:

A guy who doesn't play hard when blowing out the Vols (sorry, Dennis) may end up becoming the guy who doesn't play hard when we're down by 2 TD's in the 4th Quarter of a playoff game, or the guy who just stops playing when we're 2-5 in a down year.

Spikes seems like the kind of guy the Pats & Steelers could draft and have the veterans keep in check. I don't know if we have the structure in place to do the same.

Instead of absorbing him into a high-character squad, we'd be trying to build a high-character squad with Spikes as its core.

Not sure that's a good idea.

Legit concerns Aloy.

That said, I can't help but asking what valid proof do we have he's a slacker when he's the guy on the All American highlights? ILBer isn't the type of position you can show up and play solid football thinking "I only need my C game." MOST highly effective ILBers aren't wired to be slackers with an on switch. It just doesn't fit the job description. Players DO ease up when they're up by 30-40 points though because they're human and there's no need to PROVE any more than what the scoreboard already reads. It's not like TN had a Peyton Manning an opponent with a big lead needed to worry about.

You're alot more thorough in your research than I am capable of so I'm just trying to get you to question how these rumors add up to consensus All American. Here's where I'm going with this: I'm wondering if this character wrecking rumor starts where the usual rumors start by scouts wanting prospects to slide to their mid to late 1st round doorsteps. Somebody got a pretty decent Dan Marino late in round 1 from this kind of pre-draft character assassination. Allegedly pre-draft Adrian Peterson's arm was going to fall out of the socket if he didn't get season ending shoulder surgery before his rookie year. Here's a guy that SHOULD have been #1 overall that goes 7th overall - and why? There was supposedly a surgery that needed to take place which still hasn't happened some 3000-3500 rushing yards later. IMO, Joe Thomas and AP are the best top 10 picks in that draft. Meanwhile, LATE rumours catapulted Jamarcus Russell into everybody's top 5 Mock Drafts. How did he get so much better 1 month before the draft?

If Spikes goes to NE - we're probably looking at a nice 12 year career with him teaming up with Mayo and Crable as the Next Generation of NE LBer Corps. For some reason they have the team leadership and right people at the top to get exchange value on players with risky reputations. FAs: Dillon and Moss. Meanwhile, Vince Wilfork was rumored to take plays off. When you draft a kid like this - you give him salary incentive to stay at a certain weight, run a certain 40 and bench press a couple cars as well as achieve certain things on the field. Albert Haynesworth didn't START off with the best reputation. His 2008 contract said - make the Pro Bowl and we'll remove the Franchise Player tag meaning???? There's going to be a Hell of an Auction in 2009 for this young man but didn't Tenn keep a motivated BIG man this year?

- Tom F.

A guy who doesn't play hard when blowing out the Vols (sorry, Dennis) may end up becoming the guy who doesn't play hard when we're down by 2 TD's in the 4th Quarter of a playoff game, or the guy who just stops playing when we're 2-5 in a down year.

Spikes seems like the kind of guy the Pats & Steelers could draft and have the veterans keep in check. I don't know if we have the structure in place to do the same.

Instead of absorbing him into a high-character squad, we'd be trying to build a high-character squad with Spikes as its core.

Not sure that's a good idea.

@ballpeen said:

Spikes will be a 12 year starter and make more than a few pro-bowls.....barring injury or playing for a simpleton like Romeo who will bury him on the bench the first 4 years of his career.

If Adrian Peterson played for Romeo, he would only have 30 career carries to this point....something about him not blocking well enough.

LOL! Yup and since you wrapped it up in about 5 less paragraphs than I could have - I don't need to piggyback anything.

- Tom F.

Spikes will be a 12 year starter and make more than a few pro-bowls.....barring injury or playing for a simpleton like Romeo who will bury him on the bench the first 4 years of his career.

If Adrian Peterson played for Romeo, he would only have 30 career carries to this point....something about him not blocking well enough.

Aloysius said:

True Aloy, but when you're kicking Tennessee's ass by 30 points - does he REALLY need to stay out there fully motivated? I think the competition differentials have alot to do with player/team boredom. When Ohio State plays Indiana, I would hope there isn't a need to be counting how many 2nd half tackles Lauranitis is making or how many yards Beanie Wells is tacking on. In the same sense, I'll guarantee Spikes won't need a coach to motivate him to be high intensity vrs Oklahoma.

I know everybody knows this but it's worth the reminder. Sometimes teams like the NY Giants, USC and Florida will be looking past opponents like Cleveland, Stanford and Ole Miss. Just when you think you're invincible or unchallengable - you're not up for a surprising challenge at hand. We've all had that team on our schedules and we often refer to that as Homecoming so there's an added incentive to focus for the team the coaches worry about the players not getting up for.

Spikes wouldn't have made All American if he was playing uninspired football more than he should have. Even a guy like Tebow needed a reality check after Ole Miss so it can happen to anyone because they're human. I don't think it's possible to be wired as a slacker if you've got a reputation for being a beast at sic em. Remember SOME of the inaccurate reports on Eric Turner? One unnamed scout in an old BNI issue wrote "often heard he's a big hitter that's all over the field making tackles - never saw that anytime I watched UCLA." I think that guy cuts my lawn now.

This is the time of year through April where rumors about studs get started in hopes of guys sliding down. What was the reason AP was drafted 7th overall by Minnesota? I think SOME of that was off of a report that his shoulder wasn't right and he may need season ending surgery before he plays his first NFL game. Sometimes people START that stuff in hopes that the consistently bad teams don't do their research the way they should. Your buddy Flugel is a gullable basterd so I bought that rumor hook line and sinker because I only had eyes for him. I LIKE our first round in 2007 though. Another year, someone argued DeAngelo's 40 time was too much of a concern for us to consider him as our change of pace - home run threat. How many times has the goal line ended his sprints with the football this season? I'm sure Carolina is happy as Hell we took the bait on Wimbley working out like Tarzan inspite of only 1 steller season at FSU where 4 of his 10 sacks came against 1 cupcake opponent. The rest of his career wasn't exactly slam dunking #13 overall. I gotta see the transferables a guy like Spikes, Rey or Curry shows.

- Tom F.

@ballpeen said:

No doubt Spikes is a physical freak, but he's got bigger character concerns than Maualuga. From what I've heard, the coaches have been on his case more than once this year about him not playing hard.

nfldraftscout's got Spikes projected as a Round 1 pick, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he dropped to late Round 1/early Round 2 because of those character concerns. Nothing like the insane stock slide Florida LB Brandon Siler suffered a few years ago, but teams are going to have to take his motivation issues into account.

Kind of like Chump Thompson, Kevin Bentley. Nick Speegle and a few others....

The odds are we are getting about all we can from the guy.

Good players don't need coaches to find ways to make the effective.

JMO

as long as he's on the roster, we should find a way to make him effective.

If we can get three or four sacks out of him next year, I'd consider that a success.

Sorry Al, I think it would be better to see if Leon can stick with a CFL team at this point.

Hey, Rahim Abdullah had a pretty nice career there and even saved a person's life that jumped out of a burning window.

FA:

• Kevin Burnett, ILB, Dallas - Burnett's an athletic linebacker (4.58 40) who's never really developed into an every-down linebacker for Dallas. That said, he's become an effective nickel linebacker, subbing in for Zach Thomas on passing downs. He's even shown some skills blitzing from the inside.

  Signing Burnett would help us in two ways:

  1. It'd make drafting Maualuga much more palatable. Even if you think Maualuga's deficiencies in coverage are exaggerated, you probably don't want him playing on obvious passing downs, at least as a rookie. Not only would it help to bring a more athletic guy on the field, it'd also help Maualuga stay fresh & adjust to playing in the NFL.

     If Curry's already gone at pick #6, I could see us trading down and picking Maualuga at #9 or #10. Though I'm scared as hell about Rey Rey, trading down & picking him would be a incredibly popular move. It'd do wonders for the reputation of Savage or whoever is our GM, at least in the short-run.

  2. With Burnett playing inside, we could restart the short-lived experiment of blitzing Leon Williams from the outside. With Williams entering the final year of his rookie deal, it'd be nice to see if he could actually contribute as a pass rusher.

• Terrell Suggs, DE-OLB, Baltimore - The more I think about, the more it seems like we have to sign T-Sizzle. Though I don't like giving big money to a guy who may only be good for 8 or so sacks a year, we've forfeited the opportunity to wait on a hybrid prospect to develop. With Kam regressing and Alex Hall still extremely raw, we desperately need a guy who can rush off the edge. It'd be a reach to take one of the top-flight DE-OLB's with pick #6, and it'd be extremely risky to hope that a ready from day one guy will be available in Round 2. I think that translates into us signing Suggs.

  One of the other things that's been mentioned as a reason for not signing Suggs is that he'd play RDE in a 4-3, the same position Kam Wimbley and Alex Hall would be somewhat suited for. However, I'm increasingly convinced that that may be a virtue, not a vice.

  If we bring in a defensive guru like Rex Ryan, we could employ the occasional 4-3 front using Suggs at RDE and Wimbley at OLB, or vice versa. Since Wimbley's sacks this year have been mostly the result of him having an unobstructed path to the QB, he'd benefit from being snuck into the backfield behind one of four rushing d-linemen.

  And because defenses will be scheming for Suggs, our only big-time pass rusher, we'll need to move him around anyway. So having Wimbley (or Hall) able to somewhat competently rush from the RDE spot would be a benefit to us.

• Round 1: Aaron Curry, LB, Wake Forest - Man, I really hope so. If we got Curry, Suggs, and Burnett, our linebacker core would be set. We'd then be able to use our 2nd & whatever picks we get for DA and/or KW2 to fill our needs at OL, WR, CB, etc.

  If not, maybe Maualuga is a good option for us. Bringing in Burnett would make that a little more likely.

That's very, very interesting.

BTW, Lerner has halted additional scouting trips to bowl games for Savage until after the season and they have time to sit down and see if Savage will be the GM next year. Kind of interesting.

That said, Cushing doesn't project well to 3-4 ILB. From PFW:

Scouts were hoping to see USC SLB Brian Cushing perform better than he did when he moved inside against Arizona State to replace the injured Rey Maualuga, but with action coming at him from both sides, he did not anticipate and react as quickly as he did tilted over the tight end on the strong side and did not play with as much pop, power and punch taking on blockers. He is versatile enough to fill in during a pinch, but his best position will be lining up over the tight end.

I actually think Cushing would be a great 4-3 SLB, especially for a team without a good pass-rushing LDE.

He reminds a lot of Chad Greenway, only Greenway's just now developing as a pass-rusher (5 sacks); Cushing's already refined his skills.

As for Lum's Cushing comment, they are both good players, just different. I see some Bobby Carpenter in Cushing (that scares me...)

And 'peen, you may be right about Rey not being in Lewis' or Urlacher's class (I mean, who knows?) but from what I've seen I'd me more willing to take that chance than I would be to pass it up, I guess. Again, the Penn St game will be a huge deciding factor for me.

Aloysius said:

That scares the hell out of me.

I was thinking the same thing. I didn't watch him much this year but he was never even near the ball vs Oregon State.

I wonder if most of his publicity comes from that big hit out-of-bounds vs the UCLA QB a couple years ago.

What does he do that Cushing doesn't do?

@ballpeen said:

I am pretty sure both Brandon Spikes and Percy Harvin will declare.

Harvin is closest to have the talent to go as high as we draft, but he doesn't really fit in the need category...there will be someone who fills a need that will be rated just as high.

Spikes is going to be a heck of a ILB in the league, but he will be a stretch to take at 4-5 in the draft....I think Curry and Rey are better prospects. Spikes probably later round 1

Good point Ballpeen! I think we all kind of overlooked this kid. Spikes actually EARNED a spot on the All American Team so I got to see some of his goodies on the All American highlights. He's an impressive 249 pounds that shows up extremely FAST and instinctive on film. LBers that make plays consistently at the line of scrimmage and produce turnovers with RDs on the resume are the ones that impress me most as "must get." Man it would suck to see someone like him landing on a team already frequenting the playoffs. Then again, there's a reason those teams frequent the playoffs right?

- Tom F.

I am pretty sure both Brandon Spikes and Percy Harvin will declare.

Harvin is closest to have the talent to go as high as we draft, but he doesn't really fit in the need category...there will be someone who fills a need that will be rated just as high.

Spikes is going to be a heck of a ILB in the league, but he will be a stretch to take at 4-5 in the draft....I think Curry and Rey are better prospects. Spikes probably later round 1

To comment on mz the pussy's comment....I don't disagree at all, but I don't think any of the guys at backer in this draft are in the same class as the guys you mentioned.

I also don't want to sound like you pass on a clear cut better player to wait to take someone in a later round. My comment is if you have a few guys more or less equal. If you have that, then maybe you consider who you might get later. If a guy like Curry is the best player on your board, you take him as he fits both profiles.....value and needs.

I will be honest...for sure in round 1..I don't consider needs at all...or almost at all. I think you should always select the best player available and worry about playtime later.

If Bradford is clearly the best player, I would take him.

You can't go wrong selecting good players. Where you can go wrong is in not selecting them.

I guess if I had to break it down...rounds 1,5 and 6 are select the best player available no matter what position they play. Rounds 2,3 and 4 are rounds you allow needs to partially dictate the direction you go....round 7 is a round you select the fastest human being you can find, even if he is a non football player...say a track guy.

That would be my draft philosophy.

I arrive at that simply because FA is a part of the process these days...and that process is totally dictated by needs. Teams don't rank FA'a then go after the highest rated players...they go after guys because they need to upgrade a position. Somewhere in the draft process, you have to allow for the infusion of solid talent without allowing the position they play to interfere with the procurement of said talent.

Sure, there has to be some common sense....you don't draft nothing but receivers if every time you selected a receiver was the clear cut best player.

One also has to consider that as you get deeper in to a draft, more and more players end up "tied" in value on teams boards. Obviously needs would be the tie breaker, but early in a draft, you usually end up with some clear cut choices...we may differ on how they are ranked, but a team has a clear cut board...always take the player you feel is the better player.

@ballpeen said:

When I look at the depth of the draft, the pool of backers who will be there in round 2 and later is deeper than the pool of backs.

I think we will be better off taking a guy like Wells in round 1, then a guy like Matthews Jr. or Ellerby in round 2.

When you have several holes, you have to consider the depth at various positions, then think about how taking various players/positions will impact the overall improvement.

If as a team you have determined you need a back and a backer and the basic ability of each guy you can take first is about equal based on their position of play, you then need to consider who it is you might be able to select next....if your first selection was a backer, and the next wave of available players is going to have good backers available but the running backs won't be that great, then you really need to take the running back first.

Hope that adds to the discussion.

I thought you did a nice job of making your point of view make sense. Clay Matthews is impressive but he doesn't start believe it or not. He does run 4.5s though and he's got great football genes so I can see some upside there. Are there any of your Gators that you hope we consider in this draft?

- Tom F.

@ballpeen said:

I think we will be better off taking a guy like Wells in round 1, then a guy like Matthews Jr. or Ellerby in round 2.

When you have several holes, you have to consider the depth at various positions, then think about how taking various players/positions will impact the overall improvement.

While true, peen, I am tired of trying to plug the holes in our D with maybes and projects instead of the enforcer we need. Our D has no face, no leader. Look at Baltimore (Lewis), look at Chicago (Urlacher), then look at us (???).

Beanie's nice. But is this our top priority?

When I look at the depth of the draft, the pool of backers who will be there in round 2 and later is deeper than the pool of backs.

I think we will be better off taking a guy like Wells in round 1, then a guy like Matthews Jr. or Ellerby in round 2.

When you have several holes, you have to consider the depth at various positions, then think about how taking various players/positions will impact the overall improvement.

If as a team you have determined you need a back and a backer and the basic ability of each guy you can take first is about equal based on their position of play, you then need to consider who it is you might be able to select next....if your first selection was a backer, and the next wave of available players is going to have good backers available but the running backs won't be that great, then you really need to take the running back first.

Hope that adds to the discussion.