<![CDATA[Change is a coming....AGAIN]]>Whoa..Hold up here now..Mangini was fired because he didn't win enough games but now the roster needs a complete overhaul?..really..switching back to a 4-3 is a massive mistake..So basically what "Bob's Boy's are preaching is patience because its going to take a few years to build a "sustainable winning football team"..Oh I see...ITS OBVIOUS THAT GROSSI IS GOING TO BE A SHILL FOR HOLMGREN

BY TONY GROSSI

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The change in Browns head coaches from Eric Mangini to Pat Shurmur will result in a changes in the team's style and a makeover of the roster.

The offense will change to the pass-first West Coast system favored by President Mike Holmgren. The defense will change to a traditional 4-3 alignment. With those major systemic changes come different requirements in players.

"It's going to be a challenge, no question," said General Manager Tom Heckert. "There's going to be some turnover here. But we knew that regardless of the [coaching change] there was going to be turnover here. We have some age on the team and obviously we have to get younger."

The Browns co-led the league last season with 19 players 30 years or older. That's not the preferred roster composition for a team looking up to strong division rivals.

Let's break down the 30-and-up set this way:

Thanks for the memories

Quarterback Jake Delhomme (36) is scheduled to make $5.4 million in the last year of his contract. He won't see that.

Kicker Phil Dawson (35) probably will leave in free agency.

Defensive end Robaire Smith (33) likely will retire. His contract is up and he is coming off a back injury.

Goodbye and good luck

Linebacker Eric Barton (33) and linebacker David Bowens (33) were Mangini locker room leaders whose heavy legs don't fit in the coming 4-3 scheme.

Offensive tackle John St. Clair (33) needs to be replaced.

Defensive lineman Shaun Rogers (31) makes too much money for the effort and production he puts forth. He might stay if agreeable to a pay cut.

Tight end Robert Royal (31) wouldn't seem to be a fit in the West Coast offense.

Keepers

Linebacker Scott Fujita (31) has experience in the 4-3 defense and is one of the best players on defense.

Cornerback Sheldon Brown (31) received a $5 million bonus in a new contract after Heckert traded for him last year. An eventual shift to safety is possible if more cornerbacks can be acquired.

Guard Eric Steinbach (30) is one of the team's most consistent good players.

Long snapper Ryan Pontbriand (31) and safety Nick Sorensen (32) are core special team players.

Tight end Benjamin Watson (30) could be a valuable player in the West Coast system.

Offensive tackle Tony Pashos (30) is an above-average right tackle when healthy.

Defensive end Kenyon Coleman (31) is valuable because the switch to a 4-3 will require more defensive linemen on the roster.

Contracts up, have to re-sign

Quarterback Seneca Wallace (30) probably benefited more from the coaching change than any player. His West Coast experience makes him more valuable because he can take over from Delhomme as Colt McCoy's personal mentor. Wallace could draw interest from Arizona and San Francisco.

Offensive lineman Floyd Womack (33) is an underrated guard and tackle.

Offensive lineman Billy Yates (30) proved a capable backup center and spot starter at guard.

Heckert and Shurmur already have had meetings to decide which direction they need to go at certain positions. The good news is that the Browns are seeking the types of players with which Heckert was familiar while serving as the Philadelphia Eagles' head of personnel while Shurmur worked under coach Andy Reid.

"I think we are on the same page when it comes to players and what we are looking for and how we are going to acquire those players," Heckert said. "I do think we have at least some players that can fit whatever we are going to do. The guys that we don't have, we are just going to have to go out and get."

Good news on labor front? As NFL management and the players union conduct their rhetoric campaigns about the possibility of an owners lockout in 2011, at least one person sees a positive sign in -- of all things -- the number of coaches firings in the NFL this season.

Bob LaMonte, the pre-eminent agent for coaches and NFL executives, said he views the firing of seven coaches this year as a barometer that an owners lockout is more likely to be shorter than longer. Four teams fired coaches during the season -- Denver, Dallas, Minnesota and San Francisco. Three others made changes after the season -- Oakland, Carolina and the Browns.

LaMonte believes that "never in the world" would owners agree to put additional coaches on the payroll if they planned to have a protracted lockout.

"[John] Fox and [Marvin] Lewis had contracts up going into the season," LaMonte said. "We set a barometer this year that if just those two coaches [were let go] and there's no more firings, then I think the lockout would be on and it would be protracted. If there are more, then I thought the lockout would be short. So I think [the seven coaching changes] accelerates the concept of what my barometer said."

LaMonte particularly cited Dallas owner Jerry Jones' firing of Wade Phillips as a positive sign that a lockout would be short. He believes that Jones would not want to add the salary of a new coach to the enormous debt he already carries on the $1.1 billion Cowboys Stadium if Jones felt there would be a protracted work stoppage in 2011.

Of course, Jones was already paying Jason Garrett a healthy sum ($3 million) as Cowboys offensive coordinator.

But it's good to hear at least one independent person voicing optimism about the widening labor dispute.

If a new collective bargaining agreement is not reached by March 3, doomsayers insist the league will shut down completely, with players locked out of team-assisted injury rehabilitation services, free agency and trades coming to a complete halt, and club employees being laid off.

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@miktoxic said:

no. i thought you knew that we give new HC's two years now to prove themselves or they're out.

And I'm for giving a coach 3 or 4 years myself and I didn't want Mangini fired, but he is and I'm not going to be spiteful towards the next coach because of it and I'm not stupid enough to believe that it's some sort of elaborate conspiracy either.

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@longhorn said:

Actually, it is good we have some disagreement among Cleveland fans. It shows people still care enough to say what they believe. When no one sez anything, then everyone has given up and it is gonna be a L-O-N-G offseason.

I offer my own conspiracy:

Mangini set up Holmgren by losing all those games at the end of the season because he wanted to be a TV star and make Holmgren look bad. He also wanted to help his pal Rob Ryan become the DC at Dallas so he'd get paid tons of money by Jerry Jones no matter what his record is. I just hope Rob likes to go to bars and hear the owner spout of all types of ridiculous crap.

I agree with your theory, it makes sense..

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224715https://brownsboard.com/post/224715Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:54:02 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:49:00 GMT]]>

@wrrebel said:

I agree with you. Its seem like this board is going to have a long off season.

Actually, it is good we have some disagreement among Cleveland fans. It shows people still care enough to say what they believe. When no one sez anything, then everyone has given up and it is gonna be a L-O-N-G offseason.

I offer my own conspiracy:

Mangini set up Holmgren by losing all those games at the end of the season because he wanted to be a TV star and make Holmgren look bad. He also wanted to help his pal Rob Ryan become the DC at Dallas so he'd get paid tons of money by Jerry Jones no matter what his record is. I just hope Rob likes to go to bars and hear the owner spout of all types of ridiculous crap.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224712https://brownsboard.com/post/224712Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:49:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:43:09 GMT]]>

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

ones who will be calling for his firing after one season when he doesn't take the team to the playoffs.

no. i thought you knew that we give new HC's two years now to prove themselves or they're out.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224709https://brownsboard.com/post/224709Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:43:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:37:11 GMT]]>

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

And no one cares about your xxxxing opinion. Only a stupid ass piece of shit would make up some sort of conspiracy where the whole goal was to get MANGINI kicked out. If HOLMGREN's plan was to fire MANGINI he would have done it last year. He wouldn't wait for coach he wanted (Gruden) to become available because I'm sure HOLMGREN already had an idea that Gruden wasn't going to leave MNF. MANGINI was going to have to have a winning record in order to stay, but that didn't happen. We all knew that this year was a year for MANGINI to prove that his implemented system could work, and it didn't. It is going to take at least one year to completely change the offensive scheme and defensive scheme (something MANGINI didn't even have to do since we ran the same offense and defense when he got here) and if people just keep calling for the new guys head now and next year then we are just going to keep replaying the same losing tendencies that we have been doing since 1999.

Oh and I call people by their names. I don't use childish nick name like Mangenious, or Walrus to help my xxxxing point. Be a god damn man and use the name that god gave these two men you child.

I agree with you. Its seem like this board is going to have a long off season.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224707https://brownsboard.com/post/224707Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:37:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:01:14 GMT]]>

@choco said:

im already in hell...its called being a browns fans. close your eyes and imagine all is well, keep sucking at the teet....

so you choose not to see that holmgren set mangini up to fail? thats fine....but i will not allow this hypocrite fat xxxxing walrus to get his little scheme past me.

demand results then ask for patience? xxxx him....he wasted a year of football just to let his little plan play out. so this is now year 2 for wally....

dont like it hillis is boss? go xxxx yourself then.....cause i dont give a damn what u think.

And no one cares about your xxxxing opinion. Only a stupid ass piece of shit would make up some sort of conspiracy where the whole goal was to get MANGINI kicked out. If HOLMGREN's plan was to fire MANGINI he would have done it last year. He wouldn't wait for coach he wanted (Gruden) to become available because I'm sure HOLMGREN already had an idea that Gruden wasn't going to leave MNF. MANGINI was going to have to have a winning record in order to stay, but that didn't happen. We all knew that this year was a year for MANGINI to prove that his implemented system could work, and it didn't. It is going to take at least one year to completely change the offensive scheme and defensive scheme (something MANGINI didn't even have to do since we ran the same offense and defense when he got here) and if people just keep calling for the new guys head now and next year then we are just going to keep replaying the same losing tendencies that we have been doing since 1999.

Oh and I call people by their names. I don't use childish nick name like Mangenious, or Walrus to help my xxxxing point. Be a god damn man and use the name that god gave these two men you child.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224701https://brownsboard.com/post/224701Mon, 17 Jan 2011 01:01:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:39:12 GMT]]>im already in hell...its called being a browns fans. close your eyes and imagine all is well, keep sucking at the teet....

so you choose not to see that holmgren set mangini up to fail? thats fine....but i will not allow this hypocrite fat xxxxing walrus to get his little scheme past me.

demand results then ask for patience? xxxx him....he wasted a year of football just to let his little plan play out. so this is now year 2 for wally....

dont like it hillis is boss? go xxxx yourself then.....cause i dont give a damn what u think.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224696https://brownsboard.com/post/224696Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:39:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:13:14 GMT]]>Anyone who thinks there is some secret reason why Holmgren did what he did is Retarded. People who think we can just switch our offense and defense to something that our personnel (who were already bad in the systems already in place) are not suited for and expect them to excel in a new system in one year are Retarded. Holmgren gave Mangini another year to prove that his system could work and he ended the season on a really shitty note giving Holmgren enough of a reason to switch to his own system which he has seen alot of success with. A system that we are currently not yet set up to use, a system that WILL take time to get get up and running.

Everyone who is already calling for the new guy to be fired can go to hell in my book. Same with the ones who will be calling for his firing after one season when he doesn't take the team to the playoffs.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224691https://brownsboard.com/post/224691Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:13:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:03:36 GMT]]>

@canton-mike said:

Kathy,

I agree....Does this mean you & I are showing our age? I may have lost respect for them even before 1970.

Mike

Oh, yeah. I keep waiting for the Browns to offer senior citizen discounts but I'm no silver-haired granny yet.

It was 1970 when I abandoned all hope of any improvement. Cleveland is such a great sports town you'd think they could do better. Gad.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224688https://brownsboard.com/post/224688Mon, 17 Jan 2011 00:03:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:24:20 GMT]]>

@kshutchins said:

How many players typically leave a team from one season to the next? None of this is particularly surprising or insightful. They might let OLD player go? Is this supposed to be shocking?

Oh ... and I lost respect for the Cleveland sports media in about 1970.

Kathy,

I agree....Does this mean you & I are showing our age? I may have lost respect for them even before 1970.

Mike

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224681https://brownsboard.com/post/224681Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:24:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:23:41 GMT]]>

@junkyard-dawg said:

Get the xxxx outa here with that racial bullshit.

Not racial dude... just facts we were slow and white, which go together like peanut butter and jelly

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224680https://brownsboard.com/post/224680Sun, 16 Jan 2011 23:23:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:58:28 GMT]]>Mangini was simply a fall guy. Holmgren and Heckert both knew what was going to happen and you can tell by the free agent signings last year. We didn't sign any true 3/4 defensive linemen in part because they didn't expect mangini to stick around.

Now after wasting a year for political reasons holmgren will be asking us for patience saying championship football is on the horizon.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224673https://brownsboard.com/post/224673Sun, 16 Jan 2011 22:58:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:18:05 GMT]]>

@peterbell said:

Naw..The boat on Gruden sailed along time ago..sorry WRREBEL..hurt you're feelings..BADLY

My neighbor has 3 rabbits

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224651https://brownsboard.com/post/224651Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:18:05 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:15:58 GMT]]>

@longhorn said:

Jon Gruden?

Naw..The boat on Gruden sailed along time ago..sorry WRREBEL..hurt you're feelings..BADLY

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224650https://brownsboard.com/post/224650Sun, 16 Jan 2011 21:15:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:33:05 GMT]]>

@wrrebel said:

If pete and repeat were on a boat and pete fell off, who is left?

Jon Gruden?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224634https://brownsboard.com/post/224634Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:33:05 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:29:44 GMT]]>

@peterbell said:

ROGERS WAS A 7 MILLION DOLLAR TURD THIS YEAR..He basically quit on the team..keep him really..

bring in Haynesworth? ..Lets get Caruth from Cincy who killed his girlfriend..Too many white guys?..WTF

does that mean? .Are you an afro centrist racist? How about bring in good players with a semblance of character. You're

getting dumber by the post..good grief

If pete and repeat were on a boat and pete fell off, who is left?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224633https://brownsboard.com/post/224633Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:29:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:24:58 GMT]]>ROGERS WAS A 7 MILLION DOLLAR TURD THIS YEAR..He basically quit on the team..keep him really..

bring in Haynesworth? ..Lets get Caruth from Cincy who killed his girlfriend..Too many white guys?..WTF

does that mean? .Are you an afro centrist racist? How about bring in good players with a semblance of character. You're

getting dumber by the post..good grief

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224630https://brownsboard.com/post/224630Sun, 16 Jan 2011 20:24:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 19:38:11 GMT]]>Rebuilding imples we once had the building we wanted and now we are rebuilding it. In reality we are building.........a big house hopefully and not yet pitching another tent in the middle of nowhere.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224610https://brownsboard.com/post/224610Sun, 16 Jan 2011 19:38:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:48:00 GMT]]>

@wrrebel said:

I think a fresh start with a coach who can push his buttons he may work out.

Let's face it him and mangini dispised each other.. mangini had a rule, no talented players

Rodgers also has a rule... Kiss my big black ass... if you want me to play football ...better pucker up Pat

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224600https://brownsboard.com/post/224600Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:48:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:34:22 GMT]]>I think a fresh start with a coach who can push his buttons he may work out.

Let's face it him and mangini dispised each other.. mangini had a rule, no talented players

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224598https://brownsboard.com/post/224598Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:34:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:31:45 GMT]]>

@wrrebel said:

yeah but he is ideal for the 4-3 and is the most talented guy on our dline..

I agree BUT if he can't be on the field for long how much of an impact is he really making?

Plus I don't want one of our most talented players to quit so easily on the team.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224597https://brownsboard.com/post/224597Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:31:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:26:58 GMT]]>

@next2nothing said:

Rogers has shown he is only good for maybe 12 - 15 plays a game. He tweeted after our 0 - 3 start this past season that the season was already done. I don't know about you but he hasn't shown that he even wants to be on this team.

yeah but he is ideal for the 4-3 and is the most talented guy on our dline..

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224595https://brownsboard.com/post/224595Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:26:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:23:57 GMT]]>

@wrrebel said:

why get rid of rodgers now? He is perfect for the 4-3.. Hell lets bring in haynesworth.. schaffering should be used to give guys a blow or as a fluffer

Rogers has shown he is only good for maybe 12 - 15 plays a game. He tweeted after our 0 - 3 start this past season that the season was already done. I don't know about you but he hasn't shown that he even wants to be on this team.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224593https://brownsboard.com/post/224593Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:23:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Change is a coming....AGAIN on Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:20:52 GMT]]>

@next2nothing said:

I think we'll be able to come to terms with him. He's showed production since he's been here and I think we really need to lock him down.

You're forgetting that D'Qwell is a 4 - 3 LB and was really the wrong pick that year. He has never been good as a 3 - 4 LB. He'll be coming back and will be much better in the 4 - 3. Fujita will go back to the outside. Gocong will be serviceable at OLB too. I'd rather have him then slow Bowens and Barton. If we get rid of Rogers, Schaffering could be a good filler at DT for the time being.

I do agree that we need a playmaker on our front 7 though but I think you're underestimating Roth and Fujita. Gocong is a 50/50 to me but I really can't remember how well he did at Philly.

why get rid of rodgers now? He is perfect for the 4-3.. Hell lets bring in haynesworth.. schaffering should be used to give guys a blow or as a fluffer

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/224592https://brownsboard.com/post/224592Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:20:52 GMT