@pittsburgh-in-or said:

As for Cleveland, your ticket cost ranges between $32-$85 with an average of $58.50 and a seating capacity of 73,300 - game day ticket sales = 4,288,050

In Pittsburgh, the tickets range in price from $64-$98 with an average of $81. Seating capacity at Heinz Field is 65,050 so one day ticket sales = $5,269,050

Now, does any of this speak to true fan loyalty - not one bit. Does Pittsburgh have more loyal fans because the tickets cost more - not at all. Nor do the Browns fans care any less because their tickets are more affordable - to argue otherwise is not logical.

Even if we look at merchandise sold, while the Steelers may sell the most branded merchandise, does buying a leather jacket with your teams logo really make you a better fan than the next guy who may not want to drop an absurd amount of cash on a black and gold jacket or an orange and brown jacket.

All in all, I find it hilarious is that this argument holds steady across every sport. Do the Steelers have a lot of fans? Yup and so do the Browns. Are a lot of fans of the Steelers "bandwagon" fans due to their recent successes? Heck yeah but many of the out-o- state fans have parents who were fans of the first dynasty and they were probably raised to be Steeler fans. Anywho, the Browns have a loyal fanbase - that can never be argued. If someone did want to argue that point, I suggest they show up on a Sunday afternoon and try and convince some of the gentlemen in the dawg pound otherwise - they, I am certain, would educate the man.

Nice to have a Steeler fan in here who has common sense. Welcome.

@djdawg2010 said:

Oh they'll get there - not a doubt in my mind.

Sure, it has been one-sided lately but it has also been one sided the other way too.

When I lived out in Oregon, I became friends with one guy from Ohio who loved the Browns. The one thing we could both agree on though is that we both hated the Ravens. As a matter of fact, most people I knew out there hated the Ravens lol.

@pittsburgh-in-or said:

What both sides seem to lose sight of is that the Browns/Steelers rivalry is looked upon as one of the absolute best in the NFL - #5 per SI. The teams, past players, the fans, everyone and everything grinds to a halt more so than any other game twice a year. Sure we toss insults and speak ill of each others women and cities but boy is it fun LOL. There is a wikipedia page about the rivalry - pretty cool information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browns%E2%80%93Steelers_rivalry

Here is to the Browns doing there part to make it one of the best again! It's been rather one sided lately. I understand the Baltimore/Pittsburgh rivalry, but it's just not as natural as Browns/Steelers.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

Thank you and no worries about the remark - I can take it lol. I am not here to troll, I have actually been a member for awhile though these have been my first few posts. I enjoy the banter and the teasing but find that going to your rivals board gives a bit more insight into the fans themselves. I am sure there are many fans of both teams who will hate one another simply "because" and that is absurd.

What both sides seem to lose sight of is that the Browns/Steelers rivalry is looked upon as one of the absolute best in the NFL - #5 per SI. The teams, past players, the fans, everyone and everything grinds to a halt more so than any other game twice a year. Sure we toss insults and speak ill of each others women and cities but boy is it fun LOL. There is a wikipedia page about the rivalry - pretty cool information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browns%E2%80%93Steelers_rivalry

@pittsburgh-in-or said:

As for Cleveland, your ticket cost ranges between $32-$85 with an average of $58.50 and a seating capacity of 73,300 - game day ticket sales = 4,288,050

In Pittsburgh, the tickets range in price from $64-$98 with an average of $81. Seating capacity at Heinz Field is 65,050 so one day ticket sales = $5,269,050

Now, does any of this speak to true fan loyalty - not one bit. Does Pittsburgh have more loyal fans because the tickets cost more - not at all. Nor do the Browns fans care any less because their tickets are more affordable - to argue otherwise is not logical.

Even if we look at merchandise sold, while the Steelers may sell the most branded merchandise, does buying a leather jacket with your teams logo really make you a better fan than the next guy who may not want to drop an absurd amount of cash on a black and gold jacket or an orange and brown jacket.

All in all, I find it hilarious is that this argument holds steady across every sport. Do the Steelers have a lot of fans? Yup and so do the Browns. Are a lot of fans of the Steelers "bandwagon" fans due to their recent successes? Heck yeah but many of the out-o- state fans have parents who were fans of the first dynasty and they were probably raised to be Steeler fans. Anywho, the Browns have a loyal fanbase - that can never be argued. If someone did want to argue that point, I suggest they show up on a Sunday afternoon and try and convince some of the gentlemen in the dawg pound otherwise - they, I am certain, would educate the man.

great post. i respect your take very much and apologize to the snide remark. i thought you were just here to troll and stir things up. i see you use your head and i appreciate that. i have a tremendous amount of respect for the steelers brass and for the fans from pittsburgh or with an affiliation to the city. however, i have no respect for the fans that started rooting for them because they won more. they are all over the place and not just in ohio. the reason i can't stand them is because they have no loyalty and don't believe in anything. you seem to be a good guy though.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

Well, I personally do not look at the stat as anything other than what it is - a number. Things that go into that number are unkown. For example, Dallas is number 1 but their ticket prices are astronomical. Dallas Cowboy tickets range from $75-$239 with an average price of $157. $157 multiplied by an average seating capacity of 95,000 and you will get game day ticket sales of roughly $14,915,000.

As for Cleveland, your ticket cost ranges between $32-$85 with an average of $58.50 and a seating capacity of 73,300 - game day ticket sales = 4,288,050

In Pittsburgh, the tickets range in price from $64-$98 with an average of $81. Seating capacity at Heinz Field is 65,050 so one day ticket sales = $5,269,050

Now, does any of this speak to true fan loyalty - not one bit. Does Pittsburgh have more loyal fans because the tickets cost more - not at all. Nor do the Browns fans care any less because their tickets are more affordable - to argue otherwise is not logical.

Even if we look at merchandise sold, while the Steelers may sell the most branded merchandise, does buying a leather jacket with your teams logo really make you a better fan than the next guy who may not want to drop an absurd amount of cash on a black and gold jacket or an orange and brown jacket.

All in all, I find it hilarious is that this argument holds steady across every sport. Do the Steelers have a lot of fans? Yup and so do the Browns. Are a lot of fans of the Steelers "bandwagon" fans due to their recent successes? Heck yeah but many of the out-o- state fans have parents who were fans of the first dynasty and they were probably raised to be Steeler fans. Anywho, the Browns have a loyal fanbase - that can never be argued. If someone did want to argue that point, I suggest they show up on a Sunday afternoon and try and convince some of the gentlemen in the dawg pound otherwise - they, I am certain, would educate the man.

@pittsburgh-in-or said:

You'll notice that the Browns appear 2 slots lower than the Steelers.

All the best...

Yeah, to bad they need to win a Super Bowl in order to jump the Browns. I wonder what will happen a couple of year after the hangover wears off.

@lcdawgfan13 said:

If you would like to use that as a barometer for "true fan loyalty", I guess we can. The link posted was from the 2008 rankings, so, here is the link from the 2010 rankings: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/30/footba...ns_Revenue.html

You'll notice that the Browns appear 2 slots lower than the Steelers.

All the best...

@lcdawgfan13 said:

But... But... But... They go to the playlets more. Surely that means they have better fans than we do. Right?

@djdawg2010 said:

No kidding! The part I love is seeing Pittsburgh, with all their recent success, 2 slots under the Browns in revenue and 3 slots behind in value! Even with all the bandwagoners, they can't match the Browns revenue! Wouldn't that be evidence of true fan loyalty?

@lcdawgfan13 said:

According to those #'s and where the Browns are on that list, they rank 12th in the league in revenue and 15th in the league in overall franchise value...both are higher than the Stoolers. So the logic that the league is hoding back teams because they don't generate enough revenue is competely false.

I would like to point out how high the Browns are on that list despite repeated losing seasons just proves the loyalty of our fans!

Can you imagine then how much higher the ranking would be if they were perennial contenders?!

@clevelandfanforlife said:

Here's a little info from Forbes... http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sports...ns_Revenue.html

According to those #'s and where the Browns are on that list, they rank 12th in the league in revenue and 15th in the league in overall franchise value...both are higher than the Stoolers. So the logic that the league is hoding back teams because they don't generate enough revenue is competely false.

I would like to point out how high the Browns are on that list despite repeated losing seasons just proves the loyalty of our fans!

@miktoxic said:

and YINS has to come in here and slap a shit burger on the wall. you are the reason we hate most squeeler fags. go find your own forum to talk shittbugh love. do us all a favor and jump in front of a bus. oh yeah, sorry i forgot, they don't have buses that go out to 'one tooth gulch' trailer park, do they?

Yeah no shit!

Surf and Turf said:

1) At the beginning of every season all teams start 0-0 and every team has a chance to make the playoffs, championship game, and Super Bowl.

2) All teams have the freedom to scout players and draft. How you draft and what you do with those players is up to your team.

3) All teams have the freedom to pick their front office and coaching staffs.

4) Not all teams cry year after year like yins do because you can't get it right.

5) Most teams are able to turn their fortunes around in 2-3 years except the Browns and whose fault is that?

Most fans do not constantly complain like yins do.

can't you Fing see that we are here talking about OUR team with our heart on our sleeves pumping the old brown and orange?

and YINS has to come in here and slap a shit burger on the wall. you are the reason we hate most squeeler fags. go find your own forum to talk shittbugh love. do us all a favor and jump in front of a bus. oh yeah, sorry i forgot, they don't have buses that go out to 'one tooth gulch' trailer park, do they?

Surf and Turf said:

1) At the beginning of every season all teams start 0-0 and every team has a chance to make the playoffs, championship game, and Super Bowl.

2) All teams have the freedom to scout players and draft. How you draft and what you do with those players is up to your team.

3) All teams have the freedom to pick their front office and coaching staffs.

4) Not all teams cry year after year like yins do because you can't get it right.

5) Most teams are able to turn their fortunes around in 2-3 years except the Browns and whose fault is that?

Most fans do not constantly complain like yins do.

look again jackass. nobody is whining about anything in this thread. learn to analyze something besides your mom's nipple patterns.

1) At the beginning of every season all teams start 0-0 and every team has a chance to make the playoffs, championship game, and Super Bowl.

2) All teams have the freedom to scout players and draft. How you draft and what you do with those players is up to your team.

3) All teams have the freedom to pick their front office and coaching staffs.

4) Not all teams cry year after year like yins do because you can't get it right.

5) Most teams are able to turn their fortunes around in 2-3 years except the Browns and whose fault is that?

Most fans do not constantly complain like yins do.

@mopaji said:

Wow. Just when I couldn't feel any worse. But you're right, there isn't any incentive for Lerner to improve the team. Well, we all wanted a "hands off owner." I guess this is what we're stuck with. I have to feel that if his dad were still alive today that this team would not be struggling the way that it has, and stuck on stupid! Since we're making predictions here, who is willing to bet that big name free agent gets hurt in training camp, and can't contribute other than to be a "voice or a mentor?" You also left out a QB controversy in your assessment! Hell, why not? Happens every year. Myself, if I owned the team, I'd be seething mad with what has transpired over the past several seasons, and knowing that my organization is a doormat of the NFL, and a mockery of a once great football tradition! Screw the damn money at this point! This is a pride issue! If I win consistently, I'd probably still make a shit load of money. Even more with winning consistently. I mean, if he can't see this, then he deserves the apathy that this fanbase is dishing out, because that is where it's heading.

I'm willing to give Holmgren and Shurmur a chance! But I want to see STEADY progress. If it is going to take 2-3 years to even be a contender, then so be it. But I want to see the W-L record improve EVERY year! I want a series of good drafts, and want to see dramatic improvements on both sides of the ball, and not just glimpses of hope that fizzle out, or we end up running good players and personnel out of here! The bottom line here is 5-11 is unacceptable! 5-11 is what I expected in the first couple of years of the new Browns. Not in 2010 or 2011! We need to start holding the Browns to a higher standard, and DEMAND EXCELLENCE out of this organization!

@clevelandfanforlife said:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/25/most-valu...ball-valuations

8. Ravens

15. Browns

17. Steelers

25. Bengals

@clevelandfanforlife said:

Because of this, there is no real incentive to win games. The Lerner's look at the profit sheet; not the win column. Every few years they fire and hire somebody to get the fans excited just long enough to sell the following season's tickets. Watch, right before tickets go on sale, you'll see a big name free agent get signed, a trade for an extra draft pick, or a story about how a fan favorite is killing it in OTA's; only to end the season at 5-11. Mangini was building this team the right way, for continued success. Lerner followed the above formula like he does every year, and here we are again, starting over. It's like spring time again for much of the fan base. It's colorful and warm. But for a lot of us; we know damn well we are just weeks away from a hot, humid, mosquito-infested, rainy summer that turns to winter just before our emotional meltdown.

@tampadawgs said:

But there are some facts

The Rooneys are the BEST owners in all of football, they know how to buld a winning football team

Aaron Rodgers, I believe is the best QB in the league and there Defense is nasty...

Once we get a QB like Rodgers and a defense like the Packers or Steelers we will get to the Super Bowl...

are you implying that we trade for rogers and the steelers' defense? i'm in.

But there are some facts

The Rooneys are the BEST owners in all of football, they know how to buld a winning football team

Aaron Rodgers, I believe is the best QB in the league and there Defense is nasty...

Once we get a QB like Rodgers and a defense like the Packers or Steelers we will get to the Super Bowl...

And, the Patriots, too. There was a day when the squeelers sucked.

But, the stinkin squeelers parlayed their draft picks into a winning football team, by drafting a certain type of player.

Talented, fast, mean nasty, loves playing tough football... and willing to take steriods.

Our Browns have FINALLY started drafting the same kind of player they want again, consistently. Talented, fast, high character,

loves playing tough football, solid role models and additions to the community, and willing to work hard to win.

THAT makes me PROUD to still be a Browns fan forever, ever since I got to watch Leroy Kelly and Co. beat the squeelers

at the U. of Akron Rubber Bowl when I was a kid. When it comes around, none of us will be bandwagoners like so MANY

squeeler and niner fans.

The next two years are going to pay off hugely. I wonder who the squeeler fans will root for next season, when their current

"favorite" team loses to the Packers in the superbowl? The Packers will make the squeelers pack it in.