http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=699730-browns-unsure-if-phil-dawson-will-sign-tender

Zombo said:

Zombo

That is why there is a bit of an abberation in my figures. Dawson has scored 1057 points kicking and 6 points on a TD.

So, he tied Lou Groza in the number of TDs they each scored!

@rich4eagle said:

What it accomplished Rich is simply preserving an important element in this team. As I have said before, you make too much of all this.

And again, tell me: WHO instead of Dawson amongst the Browns free agents would you have put the franchise tag on?

And tell me: Who was sacrificed on this team to make way for this contract to Dawson?

OK, The Browns need offensive playmakers. Does that preclude the fact that we also need a reliable kicker?

A reliable kicker on this team may be far more critically important than on a team that is full of offensive firepower. The Browns last year were in close game after close game. I anticipate the same thing next year.

Dawson won them probably 3 of their 5 games last year. Because he was reliable and made his kicks allowed them to beat Carolina and Cincy and who knows who else. Next year it may meant they win 6 games by a field goal. Who know?

@osu-kid said:

Sorry, but Ben Watson played better last year than Heath Miller. So, your opinions don't count. Only production counts.

And I guess they could have said the same about Jerome Bettis.....he was fatter, slower, less quick, less athletic etc. etc. than Peyton Hillis. He did pretty well for quite a while though.

Show me where there is any difference in the two.

@slurp-and-burp said:

Remember, that 3.25 mill simply represents what the top 5 kickers in the league get paid now, so the answer is: there are at least 5 other NFL teams that DO pay that much for a kicker and I can doubledam guarantee you that several of them are that age....because most of the good kickers are older and last until they are 40.

But then I have demonstrated that to you....and you ignore it.

That is the definition of ignorance...one who ignores fact when they are placed plainly in front of their face.

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

Its beyond the ability of a Stooler fan to harbor any real logic...I mean say the shoe were on the other foot...I doubt you will see too many Browns fans mouthing off like a bunch of drunk inbred hillbillies on a Stoolers fan board...I have no desire to visit or be a part of thier board...its their shit hole...they can have it...I don't need to find out any news I need to know from a Stooler fan board....I find out all I need to know on the Browns Forums for Browns fans and read the Cleveland.Com sports pages and links provided here by our great posters. all they do here is mouth off like a bunch of pussies...I guarantee not one of them have the guts to face any one of our fans in Real Life and pull the shit they pull here...They don't have the guts ..that's why they do it here behind their keyboard...They truly are a bunch of sissies that love to gloat because the reality is you have to be a real loser in life to act as Imbecilic as they do...I'm serious...It takes a person that obviously has insecurities to do this crap when they really should get the right professional help and counseling...They have gone on a campaign of "My dicks bigger than your dick and hahaha"...Juveniles...ALL OF THEM" and show they have little or no intellect...God Bless You All for being the stupid assholes you are...You made it to 12 yr old I.Q. status and haven't progressed beyond a day.

@slurp-and-burp said:

You would think a Steelers fan would post on a Browns forum.

@the-gipper said:

Dawson career:

FGs: 252 of 303 attempts

XPs: 301 of 309 attempts

Career points: 1065

Groza: career:

FGs: 264 of 481 attempts

XPs: 810 of 833 attempts

plus Lou scored 1 TD

Career points: 1608 These include AAFC years.

It is unbelieveable that Groza's teams scored more than 500 more TDs than Dawsons. Or is it?

I am pretty sure Dawson score a TD pretty early in his career as well. Either 99 or 2000.

I might be wrong. This is off the top of my head.

@rich4eagle said:

Ok man, I agree that Lou Groza was a great kicker as well as tackle. The thing I don't agree with is that the kicker the steelers "picked up off the street" was not good. I understand if you want to root for the Steelers and Browns, I know plenty of people who do. It's just that you seem to be a steelers fan for the most part, and that tends to get on the nerves of Browns fans, me included. Just try to be unbiased and you won't piss people off.

@rich4eagle said:

Glad to see the sky is still green in your world Rich. 36 ain't old for a kicker, and Dawson isn't ordinary either. Add in Dawson was seriously underpaid last year- it's a makeup call. There's seven ACTIVE kickers in the NFL older than Dawson. Morten Andersen played until he was 47, Blanda was still booting them for the Raiders @ 48. In fact, using your logic, we should have let Lou Groza walk in 1959- when he was the same age as Dawson. Still floating down D-Nile I see.

So you think these "playmakers" are just going to waltz into Berea? Franchising Dawson does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to hinder our ability to sign free agents. And FA signings do about zilch long run to make your team a contender- you build through the draft and keep the talent you have. Sorry to break it to you Dawson has talent, and the Browns decided to (finally) pay him for it.

@the-gipper said:

Why didn't you just rank them by the number of Extra points each kicker made? That would be a different ranking.

Or how about FG percentage? That is yet again another ranking. And there could be 10 other methods of ranking.

So, of course you have to analyze it. So 2+2=4. But then what do you do with the 4? What do you add it to? What do you subtract from it, what do you multiply it by, and what do you divide it by? And what does the 4 reprsent? 4 specks of sand? 4 solar systems? 4 women lining up to give you a blow job? And why did you choose 2 and 2 together to get to the 4? Why didn't you choose 1 +3 or 6-2?

It seems pretty easy to tell that you likely dropped out of junior high

Yeah, I hope our troll boy knows you can click on the top column of those stats and sort them anyway you like. So to augment what you've been preaching, Vinateri had 51 XP attempts, Dawson had 28 51-28=23 means the Colts scored 23 more TDs than the Browns. Those are scoring rankings- PERIOD. Dawson was money from inside the 40- no misses.

So, Dawson is THE BEST in the NFL in FG% inside the 40- you can't do better than 100% accuracy.

@rich4eagle said:

Rich.Rich.Rich.....Tell Me who you would franchise...I mean honestly its really not a bad deal...Ive openly criticized Dawson over the course of his career with the browns...And hes proven Me wrong ...I give the guy his due...so what...we keep him for atleast one more season ...The Browns arent going to the SB this year..So lets worry about more important needs at this time...Finding great kickers for the browns has never been a real problem...So...I wouldnt lose sleep over this.

@rich4eagle said:

I might give anything you said some thought if you weren't a steelers fan.

@ballpeen said:

If you have a guy who clearly has it....and when you get down to it, kicking in college is harder. Both goal posts are 18' 6" wide. The hash marks in college are 40' while in the pros it is the same as the goal posts.....the college kicker has much harsher angles to adjust for.

The point being, why not spend a high pick on a position that typically can hold the job for a couple of decades???

One high pick every 18 or so years for a quality kicker isn't going to hurt anything.

JMO.

because kickers are two cents a dozen in the big scheme and stiink and shine from year to year.........and that is why there is no need to draft kickers

@hoorta said:

Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!

Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.

Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.

Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD

@feartheroo said:

You seem to have a love of.................periods......................................................

...............steelers.....................................suck

and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close

KISS MY ASS I MADE A HUGE STATEMENT ABOUT THE GREAT LOU GROZA AND YOU TURNED THAT INTO YOUR MORONIC PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE A SUBSTANCELESS JACKASS

Wait, I know why they troll. Deep down they realize that if the stoolers had a losing streak as long as the Browns have had they would be rooting for the Pats right now rather then the stoolers. They're just jealous that we have heart and didnt trade it in for a yellow towel.

@feartheroo said:

It must suck that even the Browns have a better kicker than you idiots.

So that gives us the advantage at TE, RB, P, KR, CB, and now K

oh well at least he only missed that fg by about 50 yards to the left...blame the wind right? in the dome? makes sense...

Sorry Heath Miller is better than Ben Watson and lets wait and see how healthy Hillis will remain past one good season.

@slurp-and-burp said:

Any team would pay 3.25 million for the 9th most accurate kicker in NFL history you idiot. Age matters alot less for kickers and dawson could be in the league for another 5-8 years.

@hoorta said:

Yes they did- and Guy is the only punter that deserves induction into the HOF. BUT I'll posit both Guy and Janikowski would have lasted until at least the second round if Davis hadn't taken them in the first. The only other Kickers I can remember getting drafted high are Tom Sladanky (second), Mike Nugent (second), and Martin Grammatica (third).

I have never really understood that....not selecting kickers very high.

If you have a guy who clearly has it....and when you get down to it, kicking in college is harder. Both goal posts are 18' 6" wide. The hash marks in college are 40' while in the pros it is the same as the goal posts.....the college kicker has much harsher angles to adjust for.

The point being, why not spend a high pick on a position that typically can hold the job for a couple of decades???

One high pick every 18 or so years for a quality kicker isn't going to hurt anything.

JMO.

@slurp-and-burp said:

This information is located at www.nfl.com

here is the link.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go

Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.

Ya don't look at his lifetime stats because those don't count. If we went on that then Flacco is horrible because his last game wasn't as good, Ben can't win a superbowl, Cribbs was never a good returner, and Brett Favre was always a pervert. You can not define someone just from there most recent actions. Flacco is above average to good, Ben can win a super bowl and rape women, Cribb's is going to be in the HoF for his returning ability, Favre is one of the best players to step foot on the field of football, and Dawson is a fantastic kicker.