@thaak said:

I think what he's saying is, if you do not want a terrible record like the Browns, you shouldn't have that many FA's as starters, but rather be like the packers where 17 of 22 starters were drafted by the Packers.

I suppose. Though I think you get good players where you can get them. Though it is another sport, none of those Yankee titles in the last 40 years would have been attainable without the acquisition of FAs, going back to Reggie Jackson.

@the-gipper said:

Yes, it is arguable. See, I just argued with you.

But, to the point, yes, you can find starters in FA. Other than JT and Mack the Browns starting OLine were FAs. Ben Watson and Evan Moore were FAs.

The likes of Gocong, Sheldon Brown, Fujita, Matt Roth I believe were FAs.

Perhaps a few trades were also mixed in there, like Peyton Hillis, but a significant enough portion of the Browns starters were or will be FAs. Shaun Rogers, now released was a FA. Delhomme and Seneca Wallace were FAs and they started half the Browns games.

I think what he's saying is, if you do not want a terrible record like the Browns, you shouldn't have that many FA's as starters, but rather be like the packers where 17 of 22 starters were drafted by the Packers.

@choco said:

Building thru fa is another reason the browns are the browns. Fa shores up depth an fills holes....draft is where u find starters. This isn't arguable

Yes, it is arguable. See, I just argued with you.

But, to the point, yes, you can find starters in FA. Other than JT and Mack the Browns starting OLine were FAs. Ben Watson and Evan Moore were FAs.

The likes of Gocong, Sheldon Brown, Fujita, Matt Roth I believe were FAs.

Perhaps a few trades were also mixed in there, like Peyton Hillis, but a significant enough portion of the Browns starters were or will be FAs. Shaun Rogers, now released was a FA. Delhomme and Seneca Wallace were FAs and they started half the Browns games.

@kovah said:

At most only 5 teams need a franchise qb that didn't take one high this past year.

I count 9 and that is being pretty lenient with the term "franchise" (i.e. Tebow, Dalton, Ponder, Locker)

@the-gipper said:

Or Seattle? By the way, whatever happened to Pete Carroll's boy Matt Leinert? Shouldn't he at least be a backup up there?

Leinert is the 3rd string qb for Houston, if signs their again then becomes backup

@sisky-fringo said:

pretty sure they got the ammo...and then some. if they want Luck, is there another team that can match three 1st rd picks? two in 2011 and one in 2012?

may sound like a lot to give up but if McCoy ain't the future, not only would i be ok with it...i would applaud it.

i think we'd all applaud it IF mccoy turns out to be a bust. but don't you give a guy a chance? no weapons, half an O-line and he still had moments of brilliance even when being hurt last year. who knows what this year (i hope) brings? we all might be wishing for mangini to be back and calling for holmgren's head.

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

pretty sure they got the ammo...and then some. if they want Luck, is there another team that can match three 1st rd picks? two in 2011 and one in 2012?

may sound like a lot to give up but if McCoy ain't the future, not only would i be ok with it...i would applaud it.

stupid poll.

@hoorta said:

You might, but I can guarantee you Holmgren and Heckert won't. Realistically, the Browns won't be drafting high enough to have a legitimate shot of trading for him anyway & and any team other than the Panthers sitting at #1 isn't going to trade away the rights to Luck for TWO entire drafts.

Yeah, Luck is that good, and will command that high a trade value. The Patriots are where they are by accumulating future picks, not giving them away, and they rarely trade up in the first round.

Those that don't remember the Hershel Walker trade are condemned to repeat the same mistake.

Just like how you "guaranteed" the Bengals won't draft Green?

Seriously, no one here is saying that we're gonna trade the farm for Luck; however, if McCoy does flop (which, there's still a chance) then we have a good hand to show. And if McCoy flops, we'll probably have a high draft pick.

And the Kolb to Browns rumors are dumb. We're riding McCoy this year, we live or die with him. Either way, I'm happy.

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

BTW, I'd say Kolb to Arizona is about a 95% chance of happening.

Or Seattle? By the way, whatever happened to Pete Carroll's boy Matt Leinert? Shouldn't he at least be a backup up there?

@hoorta said:

You might, but I can guarantee you Holmgren and Heckert won't. Realistically, the Browns won't be drafting high enough to have a legitimate shot of trading for him anyway & and any team other than the Panthers sitting at #1 isn't going to trade away the rights to Luck for TWO entire drafts.

Yeah, Luck is that good, and will command that high a trade value. The Patriots are where they are by accumulating future picks, not giving them away, and they rarely trade up in the first round.

Those that don't remember the Hershel Walker trade are condemned to repeat the same mistake.

9/10 I agree with your sentiment of not mortgaging your draft for one player but there are always exceptions. The RB position not being one of them (ie. Walker, R.Williams).

You are also correct that we may not have enough ammo to move up but some of that depends on what others would have to offer as well. Here is to hoping that the Panthers get the #1 overall to at least give us better options.

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

If Holmgren and Heckert see him as the next Manning/Ryan/Rivers? Absolutely.

You might, but I can guarantee you Holmgren and Heckert won't. Realistically, the Browns won't be drafting high enough to have a legitimate shot of trading for him anyway & and any team other than the Panthers sitting at #1 isn't going to trade away the rights to Luck for TWO entire drafts.

Yeah, Luck is that good, and will command that high a trade value. The Patriots are where they are by accumulating future picks, not giving them away, and they rarely trade up in the first round.

Those that don't remember the Hershel Walker trade are condemned to repeat the same mistake.

@choco said:

Constantly trading away draft picks is one reason the browns are the browns....break the cycle, change the mindset....u do not build thru FA, u build thru the draft. Its impossible to do if ur giving away high picks on gambles.

Seriously....this idea should never cross ur mind.

Constantly missing on draft picks is why the Browns are the Browns. It really doesn't matter if you have 20 picks or 2 if you can't evaluate talent. Also, you do build through FA as well as the draft.

@clevelandfanforlife said:

This sounds like a fantastic idea. Let's spend multiple picks (including a first rounder) on an unproven guy who has never been in the Browns locker room. Let's not give a chance to the guy who we only spent a third round pick on, is already stepping up to be a team leader, has a good track record of winning, wants to be here, gels with the guys in the locker room, and did pretty well last year considering the circumstances.

He is going to get his chance and if he proves to be all that you think he is, we won't be shopping for a QB next year.

@hoorta said:

To move up to first overall, it will cost both those picks, plus our second and fourth round picks. AT LEAST. Still interested?

If Holmgren and Heckert see him as the next Manning/Ryan/Rivers? Absolutely.

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

You realize that we have two first next year, right? That alone puts us in a position to go after Luck. It really will depend on who finishes with the #1. If it is Carolina, which is a great possibility, they will really want to trade out of the 1 hole. In all likelihood, we will have a 25-30 and a 7-17 to move up with. I'm not big on mortgaging your draft for a player but a player like Luck doesn't come along that often.

I posted this elsewhere a couple of times and I'll say it again here. The Browns would have to be drafting in the top three spots to even have a prayer (assuming he doesn't break an arm or leg in the meantime) of drafting Luck. Elsewise, you'd have to come up with a Ditka give away the entire draft to move up. Luck ain't worth it. Consult the many on line draft value charts if you don't believe me.

REPOST The other problem is the first overall pick has such a high point value- you're going to have to give away the ranch to get it. Here's what it would cost- if next year was this year. The Browns have their own pick #6, and Atlanta's #24. To move up to first overall, it will cost both those picks, plus our second and fourth round picks. AT LEAST. Still interested?

Plus if a qb needy team is sitting @ #1, (almost a certainty) they're not going to trade away the rights to Luck for even that.