@king-ghoolie-lives said:

Good grief, Shaun Rogers? A blockbuster trade?

For the love of nipples, what the hell are you smoking? The Browns have not brought in one single playmaker since Modell left town.

Hillis a blockbuster deal?

Again, good grief!

OK, Ghoulie,I was not characterizing these as "Blockbuster trades". Just any sort of trade. SO, what, to you, HAS counted as a "Blockbuster Trade" recently? Name any trade made in the NFL.

Or does anything short of Peyton Manning being traded for Tom Brady not count?

How successful have the Redskins been over the last decade? They've been far and away the biggest FA spenders.. and they've made the divisional round three times since 1992.

Andre Rison was given the biggest WR contract in NFL history when we signed him.. yes, he was a schlub, but that doesn't mean we weren't trying. At least the Browns were smart enough to avoid David Boston.

Jeff Garcia was given a 4-yr, $25M QB contract when we signed him.. see above. He was coming off 3 straight Pro Bowl appearances and was the #1 QB on the market.

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

PULEEZE................ These schidt trades you are listing are idiotic. Getting players 6 years past their prime is NOT big spash activity.

The Browns havne't signed a single high-profile skill player since Lerner swindled his way into NFL ownership.

There is not ONE SINGLE MOVE that you can point to that stunned the NFL and made the top headlines over and over.

We just don't sign difference makers, unless of course like Droughs and Lewis, they are well past their prime.

Browns fans STILL eat has beens alive. Policy, Sewage, Droughs, Roye, and on it goes. The FO knows that the fans have become some of the dumbest in the NFL [/b]and will gladly accept a worn out, second hand jockstrap as being new.

Players don't want to come to Cleveland because Lerner does not have a proven track record of adding solid talent. The state of the city doens't exactly attract players either.

If you are right about the highlighted portion above Ghoulie, in some opinions YOU may be a contributing persona to the truth of your own proposition.

The "fans" don't "buy" or "accept" anything. The fans have NO say in who gets drafted, who gets signed as a FA, who gets traded for, who gets hired as coach, who buys the team, who gets fired, who hired to pick up cigarette butts.

We don't run the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, make a tackle, keeck a touchdown, or anything.

We simply watch the games and pay. Plain, simple, stupid. That is it.

And it is the same for every single other fan base of every other team.

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

PULEEZE................ These schidt trades you are listing are idiotic. Getting players 6 years past their prime is NOT big spash activity.

The Browns havne't signed a single high-profile skill player since Lerner swindled his way into NFL ownership.

There is not ONE SINGLE MOVE that you can point to that stunned the NFL and made the top headlines over and over.

We just don't sign difference makers, unless of course like Droughs and Lewis, they are well past their prime.

Browns fans STILL eat has beens alive. Policy, Sewage, Droughs, Roye, and on it goes. The FO knows that the fans have become some of the dumbest in the NFL and will gladly accept a worn out, second hand jockstrap as being new.

Players don't want to come to Cleveland because Lerner does not have a proven track record of adding solid talent. The state of the city doens't exactly attract players either.

To be fair, the Browns have never done much in the way of trades.

Art traded Warfield for the #1 pick and may have traded for Risen.

We did make a few trades with the Giants back in the day, getting Erich Barnes, and another to bring in Homer Jones.

We also traded to get Bernie.....but all in all, we have never been a team to make a big splash in the trade market.

mikeyP72 said:

If by veteran leadership u mean getting beat over the top then sure.. Him and Wright were both atrocious.

Brown wasn't atrocious. He wasn't great, but he defintly wasn't ATROCIOUS. He was mediocore, and much better then the nothing we gave up to get him. Truth is we were desperate for help in the secondary and he was the one of the best options available. He also definitly wasn't a "splash" that shocked anyone in or around the NFL.

mikeyP72 said:

Brown is after his prime...

Ya but still a decent starter, give good veteran leadership, and once against better than what we gave up to get him.

@unsympathetic said:

Wrong. Feel free to ignore Bentley/Rogers/Steinbach, but at the time of the deal, each of those moves was exactly what you said didn't happen. Get some cheese with that whine.

As to the original question of this thread.. when you consider that there are 31 teams we're competing for any given FA's signature, 4 top FA's (I'm including Sheldon Brown, one of the top 2-3 FA CB's last year) is really not a bad avg in the past 5 years. Also, most of those FA's are looking to play for a perennial playoff contender.. and for someone moving off a perennially down team like the 9ers/Seahawks, you can't really blame them for overlooking the Browns.

We got Sheldon Brown in a trade with the Eagles. I believe that we traded them Alex Hall (never did anything for us was a late round pick) and a 4th and 5th round pick and we got Brown (had to give him a 3-ish year contract extension for him to except being traded as per his contract) and Chris Gocong. We got a starting CB and MLB out of the deal while Hall was released and they didn't get anyone of worth with the picks we gave them. Say what you want about Brown and Gocong but they are way better than what we gave up.

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

There is not ONE SINGLE MOVE that you can point to that stunned the NFL and made the top headlines over and over.

Wrong. Feel free to ignore Bentley/Rogers/Steinbach, but at the time of the deal, each of those moves was exactly what you said didn't happen. Get some cheese with that whine.

As to the original question of this thread.. when you consider that there are 31 teams we're competing for any given FA's signature, 4 top FA's (I'm including Sheldon Brown, one of the top 2-3 FA CB's last year) is really not a bad avg in the past 5 years. Also, most of those FA's are looking to play for a perennial playoff contender.. and for someone moving off a perennially down team like the 9ers/Seahawks, you can't really blame them for overlooking the Browns.

Trade wise it isn't fair to discount the Hillis deal because he was a "nobody" and then credit the Welker deal for being a "big Splash" Hillis and Welker were both about the same caliber of player before finding a new roll on there new team. Also Rogers deal was definitly a big splash as he was one of the best defensive tackles in football when we got him, and he was still in his prime.

And DA was broght in as a FA not a trade if memory serves me correct. I think we signed him off Baltimores practice squad

@nw220 said:

Okay i was thinking about the Boldin trade to Baltimore and wondering why Cleveland never seems to be involved in any big trades that would be worth the picks for the player you need..

Also in Free Agency as well i think some of the biggest F/A's we've signed were this past year with Watson and Sheldon Brown.And thats throughout the years

Now im a firm believer in you build through the draft to be a great team, but there comes times when you need to plug holes in other ways as well. Such as F/A and Trades

So im wondering do Players not wanna sign here due to are Prestige sorta like the Lions or does it have more to do with the Front Office??

But do understand i see this changing alot now that Heckert and Holmgerm have been here

probably more of your FO's stance on FA's. kinda like the Steelers. when was the last time they made a huge splash in FA?

@b86b said:

Welker was a nobody when he was traded to NE, think he had 1 td in the previous 2 seasons, and to be fair everybody thought Moss was washed up when NE got him..

And I thought Moss was picked up as a FA, no?

@nw220 said:

Actually Welker scored 2tds maybe 3 agasnt the Pats when he played for the Dolphins thats why the Patriots wanted him so badly, and had to give up a 2nd to get him..

2004 15 games 0 rec 0 tds

2005 16 games 29 rec 0 tds

2006 16 games 67 rec 1 td

his stats straight from nfl.com

@b86b said:

Welker was a nobody when he was traded to NE, think he had 1 td in the previous 2 seasons, and to be fair everybody thought Moss was washed up when NE got him..

Actually Welker scored 2tds maybe 3 agasnt the Pats when he played for the Dolphins thats why the Patriots wanted him so badly, and had to give up a 2nd to get him..

@nw220 said:

Holmes traded to Jets

Boldin Traded to Ravens

Marshall Traded to Dolphins

Culter Traded to Bears

Moss Traded to Patriots

Welker Traded to Patriots

Champ Bailey Traded to Broncos

Portis Traded to Redskins

Seymour Traded to Raiders

These are just off the top of my head im sure there are alot more

Welker was a nobody when he was traded to NE, think he had 1 td in the previous 2 seasons, and to be fair everybody thought Moss was washed up when NE got him..

Boldin Traded to Ravens

Marshall Traded to Dolphins

Culter Traded to Bears

Moss Traded to Patriots

Welker Traded to Patriots

Champ Bailey Traded to Broncos

Portis Traded to Redskins

Seymour Traded to Raiders

These are just off the top of my head im sure there are alot more

@nw220 said:

Dont get me wrong but Jamaal Lewis was an Unknown coming back from surgery and a bigger back on his way down even though he had a couple solid years for us,Delhomme we all saw that coming or at least i did wouldnt consider that a splash..

Derek Andereson had one great year and was shipped out not really much impact there and Trent Dilfer really hes not worth mentioning.

Shaun Rogers is the only one ill give any credit for and the Hillis trade even though it was robbery considering Brady is garbage and Hillis was an unknown to alot of people..

So basically are free agents have been everbody else's cast offs Mcginest,Garcia etc. the list goes on

Well, the fact is there just aren't that many "Big Name Trades" that go down in the NFL the way them may go down in baseball, or even basketball.

I think if you started looking at all the other teams in the NFL not than many would have engaged in the kind of trades you are talking about.

I mean, name me some big blockbuster trades that seem to fit the criteria you are looking for.

When they happen in MLB, it is usually because guys are traded because they make it clear they are not coming back in FA. That is why the Indians traded the likes of CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee. They didn't think they could afford to keep them. It may have been one reason the Browns shipped out Edwards. In addition to being somewhat of a head case, he was also about to be a FA.

@the-gipper said:

Yes, I think the Browns have been involved in their fair share of noteworthy trades. Didn't they get Sean Rogers in trade? And they got Jamal Lewis as a FA. They got Derrick Anderson in trade I believe. And they brought in big enough name FAs like Trent Dilfer, Jeff Garcia, Ruben Droughns. They traded Braylon Edwards for whatever in return. They traded Brady Quinn for Peyton Hillis. etc. etc. And they traded picks to take Quinn.

I believe the Browns over the past several years, with Heckert and Savage etc. running things they have been one of the most active teams making trades in the NFL. They just have to work out.

There best offensive threats, Hillis and Watson, were trades and FAs. Delhomme and Seneca Wallace were FA pickups.

Dont get me wrong but Jamaal Lewis was an Unknown coming back from surgery and a bigger back on his way down even though he had a couple solid years for us,Delhomme we all saw that coming or at least i did wouldnt consider that a splash..

Derek Andereson had one great year and was shipped out not really much impact there and Trent Dilfer really hes not worth mentioning.

Shaun Rogers is the only one ill give any credit for and the Hillis trade even though it was robbery considering Brady is garbage and Hillis was an unknown to alot of people..

So basically are free agents have been everbody else's cast offs Mcginest,Garcia etc. the list goes on

I believe the Browns over the past several years, with Heckert and Savage etc. running things they have been one of the most active teams making trades in the NFL. They just have to work out.

There best offensive threats, Hillis and Watson, were trades and FAs. Delhomme and Seneca Wallace were FA pickups.

I hope the lockout gets resolved soon because I'd like to see what our FO does in FA.