@wrrebel said:

I don't get the lack of any moves.. heckerts ego is going to cost us... he thinks he can build through the draft alone... well in that case he better start hitting on his 4th, 5th and 6th rd picks and make sure his 2nd rd picks aren't mr glass (hardesty)

I'm still a little confused cause when heckert was

in philly they signed players, terrel owens, asante samuel ect...

And holgrem is seatlle didn't hestitate to sign players..

It helps when there is a moderate amount of good talent already there....

I like most fans am always aware that in the nfl any team can rise from nowhere to win it all and like many other browns fans i am always hoping to see this happen but if it doesnt its no big deal as long as certain key things develop and appear workable for the future..

Regardless of what some think heckert is loading this team with talented youth and at the end of the day i am willing to bet we wont even be close to being in the race for andrew luck, im honestly thinking 6-10 as a worse case scenario..

@secondwave said:

Bradford went #1 overall despite the fact he was injured his whole senior year. And he's an inferior prospect in comparison to Andrew Luck.

Trust me, there's no way in hell (especially with the cap on rookie contracts) that Luck drops out of the top 3. Barring Barkley makes quantam leaps in his development this year, Luck isn't getting pushed out of that top spot.

I wouldn't be that high on Barkley. I think he is overrated simply because he goes to USC.

Landry Jones, Ryan Tannenhill, Kellen Moore could all be better.

Endymion said:

I think Andrew Luck should've come out this year, because he will not be the number #1 pick this year, nor the #1 QB taken off the boards. Playing football presents a high risk of injury, missing 2-3 weeks with even a minor injury will cause one's stock to fall. Second Luck will be playing under a new coach and a new system, that projects his numbers will not look as good. Third, there's bound to be 1-2 QBs who put up better stats to become next year's media darlings, ala Vince Young or Jamarcus Russell. In all, I think Luck will be a solid pick at QB for whoever gets him, unlike Lienart. But like Lienart, when you have the chance to go #1 overall, you shouldn't pass on it. My prediction is Luck will fall to the Browns with a pick between 10-15, but then again I don't profess to be psychic.

Bradford went #1 overall despite the fact he was injured his whole senior year. And he's an inferior prospect in comparison to Andrew Luck.

Trust me, there's no way in hell (especially with the cap on rookie contracts) that Luck drops out of the top 3. Barring Barkley makes quantam leaps in his development this year, Luck isn't getting pushed out of that top spot.

Endymion said:

I think Andrew Luck should've come out this year, because he will not be the number #1 pick this year, nor the #1 QB taken off the boards. Playing football presents a high risk of injury, missing 2-3 weeks with even a minor injury will cause one's stock to fall. Second Luck will be playing under a new coach and a new system, that projects his numbers will not look as good. Third, there's bound to be 1-2 QBs who put up better stats to become next year's media darlings, ala Vince Young or Jamarcus Russell. In all, I think Luck will be a solid pick at QB for whoever gets him, unlike Lienart. But like Lienart, when you have the chance to go #1 overall, you shouldn't pass on it. My prediction is Luck will fall to the Browns with a pick between 10-15, but then again I don't profess to be psychic.

I would probably make a major wager with you that Luck does not fall to between 10-15. Hell, he could get hurt and miss this entire upcoming season and I bet he would be taken in the top 5.

@represent said:

Las Vegas doesn't think it's that absurd, The Browns being stuck in the middle so i'm guessing that is an 8-8 record i think you might need to not drink jesus juice before you get on and post. I don't think we will be andrew luck bound anyways even if we had the first pick in next years draft.

Realistically the browns are still a 5-11 to 6-10 team and best case scenerio everything goes right 7-9 we won't compete within our division for another 3 years with a draft only system and dramatic changes to the Ravens and Steelers rosters.

Vegas predicts us to go 7-9 next year. That's one game away from "stuck in the middle". I guess Vegas should stop drinking the Kool-Aid, or Jesus Juice, or whatever it is you want to call it.

There have been no drastic changes to the Steelers or Ravens rosters this offeseason.

The Steelers lost TE Matt Spaeth, WR Antonio Randle-El, OT Flozell Adams, OT Max Starks and DE Nick Eason. They resigned OT Willie Colon, OT John Scott, CB Ike "I beat my wife" Taylor, and K Shaun Suisham, and signed 20 UDFA's. The only possible big name acquisition on the radar at the moment would be resigning Plaxico Burress, who's in Pittsburgh today for a meeting.

The Ravens released OG Chris Chester, RB Willis McGahee, WR Derrick Mason, TE Todd Heap, DT Kelly Gregg, OT Jared Gaither, S Dawan Landry, WR Donte Stallworth, and CB Josh Wilson. They resigned OG Marshall Yanda, and signed 26 UDFA's.

Neither team has been active in Free Agency signings. We've signed more FA's from other teams than they have combined.

Realistically, everything you say is complete bullshit.

@the-gipper said:

I think you are being a complete "glass half empty" kind of guy. To say that the Browns could be in the hunt for the worst record in the league, I think, is absurd. I am not saying the Browns will probably be in the playoff hunt either. They will probably be stuck in the middle somewhere. They may get off to a rough start.....but look at our first opponent.

The Bengals are FAR more likely to be a frontrunner for the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes than the Browns.

Las Vegas doesn't think it's that absurd, The Browns being stuck in the middle so i'm guessing that is an 8-8 record i think you might need to not drink jesus juice before you get on and post. I don't think we will be andrew luck bound anyways even if we had the first pick in next years draft.

Realistically the browns are still a 5-11 to 6-10 team and best case scenerio everything goes right 7-9 we won't compete within our division for another 3 years with a draft only system and dramatic changes to the Ravens and Steelers rosters.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/785298-cleveland-browns-take-early-lead-in-andrew-luck-sweepstakes

I'm just extremely frustrated. Cause I agree we shouldn't just go out and sign players ro sign players. But I thought we would be involved with at least mid tier free agents.

I mean you sign guys who fit your scheme or can be a starter. I don't think s rice would have been a good fit either, but this is the second off season where were passing over glaring needs.

Every other team is the league with the exception of us and the bengals are making moves, improving there roster.

Now I see we don't actually have to spend the min for the salary cap until 2013..

My theory is this, you have money to spend. People ar right we aren't going to be a superbowl contender this year and at the rate were addking talent wee won't be a play off contender in 5 years..

@wrrebel said:

Again I disagree...

In the current nfl your always a perfect storm away from being a contender.

Look at the browns last year. If we had a legitimate wrs we probably win 3 to 5 more games.

Last year we signed ben watson. He was and still is our best wr option and he plays tight end.. why not give colt mccoy a legitmate option??

And hardesty with his days at tennessee and first year in the nfl has earned the nickname mr glass.

I don't get fans.. you drink heckerts cool aid.. robiske and momass have showed me nothing.. we have the slowest wrs in the nfl...

I'm starting a site... wwwheckertisajew.com

I agree with you on your points Rebel, it was early in the morning when I typed that so I apologize if I came off hostile.

I left out WR but still my point is that I don't think a guy like Sidney Rice wants to come play here. I am not drinking the kool-aid on our current WR's and I hope we do pick up a legit veteran before FA is over. I am however drinking the Heckert kool-aid and I'll gladly admit it.

I don't disagree that at anytime can a team make a run to the playoffs but I'd rather have my team be in playoff contention every year instead of signing some overpriced FA(s) then have things go our way for one year only to see us fall back into the cellar the next year.

In the current nfl your always a perfect storm away from being a contender.

Look at the browns last year. If we had a legitimate wrs we probably win 3 to 5 more games.

Last year we signed ben watson. He was and still is our best wr option and he plays tight end.. why not give colt mccoy a legitmate option??

And hardesty with his days at tennessee and first year in the nfl has earned the nickname mr glass.

I don't get fans.. you drink heckerts cool aid.. robiske and momass have showed me nothing.. we have the slowest wrs in the nfl...

I'm starting a site... wwwheckertisajew.com

@wrrebel said:

I don't get the lack of any moves.. heckerts ego is going to cost us... he thinks he can build through the draft alone... well in that case he better start hitting on his 4th, 5th and 6th rd picks and make sure his 2nd rd picks aren't mr glass (hardesty)

I'm still a little confused cause when heckert was

in philly they signed players, terrel owens, asante samuel ect...

First off; this current team is not a couple players away from being a playoff contender. If you say otherwise you are just being a true homer, which there is nothing wrong with and I'm as optimistic as anyone on this board, but the fact is that realistically we are not close to playoff contention. Just my opinion. Secondly I think Ray Edwards is way overrated. The guy played on the same D-Line as Kevin Williams and Jared Allen. Allen required a double team every passing down and Kevin Williams is an All-Pro defensive tackle so of course Edwards was able to get the kind of stats he got. He'll get the same stats this year because he's going to Atlanta to play with Abraham who is the same elite pass rusher that Allen is. If we had signed(overpaid) him there is no way he has the same production that he had in Minny.

About the Mr. Glass comment, let's see if Hardesty can stay healthy this year before we start giving him a nickname like that.

You know why Philly signed players like that? Because Philly was a playoff, even a Super Bowl, contending team year in and year out when Heckert was there. The Browns are not the team Philly is and we have way to many holes right now to just go throw big money around in FA. I want to win now as much as anyone but it's not going to happen in one off-season. Especially one that was decimated by the lockout.

As far as this thread goes... why don't we see what McCoy does this year instead of putting him and the team down all because you're unhappy with the first day of FA?

Its a bold strategy, let's see how this plays out

I'm still a little confused cause when heckert was

in philly they signed players, terrel owens, asante samuel ect...

And holgrem is seatlle didn't hestitate to sign players..

@the-gipper said:

I am not overlooking those other things as a factor, but when it comes to the bottom line, money is usually a trump factor over all those others. If a FA can get real close to the same money from a perceived "contender" he might go there. But if it is not real close, money talks, and all that other bullshit walks.

Of course it's the money. Anyone who thinks a player would give up millions to play for a winner is nuts. Sure, if the pay is comparable then they would. But if it is not then they go $$$$$$. That's why they are called "Professional Athletes".

@jrb12711 said:

Gipper, I do agree with to an extent. But there's a fine line between going where the money is and going to play for a winner. These guys are at the top of their game because of their competitive, winning nature. I mean I hate to down our team but, if I was a WR I wouldn't come to Cleveland. Players want and need to go a place where they will shine. Sure, sometimes money is more important but like i said you can't overlook those factors

I am not overlooking those other things as a factor, but when it comes to the bottom line, money is usually a trump factor over all those others. If a FA can get real close to the same money from a perceived "contender" he might go there. But if it is not real close, money talks, and all that other bullshit walks.

Us Cleveland fans wouldn't know how to react to a star athlete who refuses to quit.