@miktoxic said:

53 - 19 = 34 no names (and that's giving plenty of leeway with those 19). i agree that there is no quick fix but building through the draft is fine and blah blah blah if those picks that you make pay off. if not you've got to build in other ways as well. all the while trying to hold on to the players that can play so they don't leave in FA meaning you've got to re-draft a position that you were once solid at. it's a dog and pony show. and we've got a fat walrus as the ring master.

You could look at any teams bottom 34 and say the same thing.

@miktoxic said:

53 - 19 = 34 no names (and that's giving plenty of leeway with those 19). i agree that there is no quick fix but building through the draft is fine and blah blah blah if those picks that you make pay off. if not you've got to build in other ways as well. all the while trying to hold on to the players that can play so they don't leave in FA meaning you've got to re-draft a position that you were once solid at. it's a dog and pony show. and we've got a fat walrus as the ring master.

Honestly calling Holmgren names already. One loss and the sky is falling.

Well would you want to be like the Colts that have 35% of their cap tied up in three players, Manning, Freeney and Wayne, and really be scraping the bottom of the barrel for help at other positions because you're capped out?

Alex Mack

Joe Haden

Hillis.

Ward

Rubin**

Taylor**

Sheard**

Dawson

Fujita

Jackson

Little**

GocongXX

Cribbs

Watson

McCoy**

Well, those ** are you're wishing and hoping Cal- they haven't proved themselves yet, but they do look promising. The XX by Gocong is I disagree- he's far from a top level LB, Fujita- was good enough to play on a Super Bowl defense.

And to Gips who said we didn't address the O-line- are you kidding me? Thomas and Mack were both first rounders, we drafted Lavauao & Pinkston, Steinback was a Pro Bowl alternate, and we picked up Pashos in FA. You looking to have Pro Bowlers at each spot? Not happening. BTW, the near certain HOF center the Browns will be going up against in Indy- Jeff Saturday, was an UFA. The problem is our last two guys are hurt, so we're scrambling a RT- and it's screwing everything up.

Now as to our lack of speed at WR, I'll grant you that- but it isn't all about speed. If it was, Renaldo Nehemiah- he of 4.1 speed would be in the HOF. You can be a very effective receiver in the NFL if you run precise routes, and have explosion out of your breaks. Steve Largent and Fred Biletnikoff are both in the HOF and neither were exactly burners.

Finally Ghoolie- you can bash our talent all you want, but you don't know squat about what the rest of the league has talent wise, because you're not into researching those things in depth. I'll pay you five bucks for every player you can name off the top of your head on the Colts after the first five without looking it up. (No Cheating) And I already spotted you Saturday. The Bungles have maybe two players better @ their respective positions better than the Browns- AJ Green, and pick one of their linebackers. The Browns have several better than the Bengals at theirs. The Browns lost that game because of crappy punting (notice we have a new punter this week?) and the Defense and coaching staff had a massive brain fart that let the Bungles win on a trick play. You have heard I hope, that the difference in winning and losing in the NFL often comes down to one or two plays.

@calfoxwc said:

Joe Thomas.

Alex Mack

Joe Haden

Hillis.

Ward

Rubin

Taylor

Sheard

Dawson

Jackson

Little

Gocong

Cribbs

Watson

McCoy

Fujita

Pontbriand

The above players could easily play for several other top half of teams in the NFL.

Then there's

Jordan, (Cameron) not yet ready (TE)) and several other rookies and young players who

may very well turn out to be gems, like Buster Skine....

53 - 19 = 34 no names (and that's giving plenty of leeway with those 19). i agree that there is no quick fix but building through the draft is fine and blah blah blah if those picks that you make pay off. if not you've got to build in other ways as well. all the while trying to hold on to the players that can play so they don't leave in FA meaning you've got to re-draft a position that you were once solid at. it's a dog and pony show. and we've got a fat walrus as the ring master.

Alex Mack

Joe Haden

Hillis.

Ward

Rubin

Taylor

Sheard

Dawson

Jackson

Little

Gocong

Cribbs

Watson

McCoy

Fujita

Pontbriand

The above players could easily play for several other top half of teams in the NFL.

Then there's

Jordan, (Cameron) not yet ready (TE)) and several other rookies and young players who

may very well turn out to be gems, like Buster Skine....

A few years ago, that list was a hell of a lot smaller. That is why things are lookin up - and is

has no freakin thing to do with how much talent so far that the Browns have compared to established for years teams.

They just still have a few? weaknesses.

It isn't about speed so much with WR's, either.

DB's are fast, too.

It IS about quickness, and instinctive elusiveness.

Cobb looks to me like that super quick, elusive wr the Browns need.

The Bengals have some very quick wr's - and Joe Haden kept knocking the passes down in front of them.

Sure, it's hard to be elusive enough to get away from Haden - but Jerry Rice wasn't any kind of burner. He

just got open. Greg Little can do that. It does "little" @@ good, though, when the oline has weaknesses again.

And, it does NOT just come down to confidence speed strength and talent. Braylon Edwards had all those.

He just didn't care - it was always about him. He didn't have the character, the drive- the dedication to TEAM and winning.

Braylon Edwards didn't have the HEART, and without heart, you aren't a winner. WITH HEART, you can be a winner

without star quality all around talent.

I am trying to keep in mind that this regime is in its second year but really only in its infant year of total system conversion and its matching rebuild and the fact that the owner obviously has no issue or concern with this regime being ridiculously over conservative and ultra cheap in failing to find or bring in decent young talent from FA knowing this team has big holes while keeping guys like slowbiskie and pashos on the roster that have proven they cant play at this level for one reason or another..

Watching our slow motion WRs being easily handled by DBs and even LBs or more precisely watching a safety or corner sprinting at only a little over half speed to keep Mo and slowbiskie blanket covered is getting old and hurting this team, we flat lack break away speed at WR..

The fact they have never addressed the o-line in a satisfactory fashion combined with easy to cover slow WRs and TEs that have to depend on a mismatch or mistake to develop an opportunity means our QB is going to have to either hold the ball to long while something develops or take big risks and or dump passes off..

This regime is showing some big cracks in the wall and an unprecedented sluggishness if not a downright reluctance to fix things in addressing serious issues with unacceptable lackluster solutions early on and maybe lerner wont address the issue and put some pressure on this regime but the fans and media will put pressure on lerner and this regime if they dont start rectifying some serious issues and shortcomings properly..

I am really trying to fight off this hopeless feeling of daja vu here we go again but it always seems to relate directly back to poor ownership that does not assert its authority to get things done and having no long term acceptable plan, vision or solution at the ownership level....