@jake24 said:

4 cathces for 38 yards..........thats bummy...why don't you try watching some other games around the league and become more knowledgable so you can understand that 4 cathces n 38 yards sucks

All of his routes were short ones and he wasn't starting, I'm sure his numbers would be much better starting with Massaquoi and having some deeper routes called for him(I mentioned this in several posts before too, about how Little needs better routes called for him). You look at Little's college highlights and you'll see that he specialized in catching the deep ball, so that's exactly how the Browns should be playing him, instead they're playing him with short TE-like routes over the middle.

and I agree with Zombo, plus you have to understand you don't become a great team in one year, the talent level will increase with next year's draft for sure(two 1sts, two 2nds even?), then they will sign FAs when they know the team is ready to contend. with that being said, their plan is to try to win every game regardless of the talent level(and there's plenty of good pieces at the moment anyhow).

even though Shurmur is a rookie head coach(who has questionable play calling at times), I feel a lot more confident with the structure of this front office than years past, and that's with Holmgren making some mistakes even(Delhomme contract being the biggest mistake), but Holmgren has done way more good than bad for the Browns as an organization so it's fine.

WE NEED BIG PLAYS!

and new rookie having to play LG, and Pasho lost temporarily? at RT, with new systems

and new coaches,

Little showed some serious get open quick ability, and toughness, etc ...

he did a nice job for what he was asked to do.

I call a really big upside on the kid.

@jake24 said:

4 cathces for 38 yards..........thats bummy...why don't you try watching some other games around the league and become more knowledgable so you can understand that 4 cathces n 38 yards sucks

From a rookie who hasn't played in about 2 years it sound pretty good.

@bodybuilder32 said:

Watch the games instead of whacking it to fantasy football. Greg made difficult catches on all downs to help move the chains. He did everything we needed him to do. He can't make plays downfield yet because colt doesn't have enough time to sit in the pocket and deliver the football with accuracy. Right now, we need quick hitting plays that either create short yardage situations or to move the cahins on 3rd and 5.

4 cathces for 38 yards..........thats bummy...why don't you try watching some other games around the league and become more knowledgable so you can understand that 4 cathces n 38 yards sucks

@jake24 said:

Greg Little 4 catches for 38 yards...........you call that a positive?! thats so so as so so can get.

Watch the games instead of whacking it to fantasy football. Greg made difficult catches on all downs to help move the chains. He did everything we needed him to do. He can't make plays downfield yet because colt doesn't have enough time to sit in the pocket and deliver the football with accuracy. Right now, we need quick hitting plays that either create short yardage situations or to move the cahins on 3rd and 5.

Zombo said:

Well, the positive is that he is in his second game of his career and he has already made some tough ca=ches and become a part of the offense.

Brian Robiskie, who I think was drafted higher than Little, hasn't done that yet in his third season.

This is another sign of the type of player Heckert drafts. Little looks like the best athlete on the field when he is out there. I don't imagine it will take long for him to start playing like it.

Z

I say he starts this week and really comes alive. Week 1 was first real game in over a year, week 2 he started to perform, week 3 back at home he'll explode.

@mudratdetector said:

momass is playing well. i think that he, cribbs, and little should be our core 3 wr.

I think MoMass ran some pretty crisp routes and showed some explosion sunday. hope that continues.

@frenchie said:

In addition to Hillis, Cribbs, Ward, MoMass, and Little mentioned above, I think a few more players deserve thumbs up:

Rubin had a great game on the D-line. Maynard's punting. Colt avoiding the rush. Balanced attack - no more West Coast bullshit - you need to keep the defense guessing by having all plays in your arsenal. Young had an important int and some good hits. Alex Smith, Joe Thomas (except one play). Patterson (except one play). Marecic improved. And we saw a few screen plays!!

Not happy with:

Play calling - as pointed out here, with no big play attempts. Too much up the middle in short yard age - hard to stop Hillis on a sweep.

The final 90 secinds - Colts went downfield quickly and scored.

O-Line did not open holes and McCoy was constantly scrambling. Joe Haden, Hardesty, Robiskie (where was he?). Colt's completion percentage.

Get used to the WCO BS as you so call it. Its what were gonna be. It's who our coaches and FO are. Theyre not gonna stop developing into it. It worked in Candkestick,Green Bay and it will work here, as Paul Brown used it. Good schemes and good plays never die when you have talent and experiance to run it.

@bodybuilder32 said:

Positives- Josh Cribbs winning us the game on special teams and quick screens. This guy does not cease to amaze me on how many guys he can make miss. Shurmur did a great job using him on offense.

Greg Little's performance was a positive not a so-so. He made tough catches in traffic that helped moved the chains. Perfect execution for the west coast offense. He will catch balls downfield as soon as we get an offensive line that can protect out qb.

Jaball Sheard got to the qb and made plays behind the LOS. He is developing into a playmaker.

TJ Ward showed great coverage ability today. He should be off everyone's shit list now.

Smith made tough catches in traffic and took many shots while doing so. He helped his qb out by being a reliable target.

Hillis was a total beast today earning every yard he gained. I don't believe there is any other back in the NFL that would have got the yardage he got today with the browns lackluster offensive line.

The so-so was Colt Mccoy. He managed the game well, no turnovers, scrambled for a first down, throws well outside of the pocket. He missed a few open looks today (hillis in the goaline the most obvious) he almost had a fumble for loss, and he gets his receivers killed by throwing into zone coverages where the defender is closing down hard. He played o.k, even slightly good, but not anything to be impressed about.

Another so-so is our punter. He is a hige improvement from McGee, but I would have liked to see him pin the colts back inside the 10 atleast once instead of out of bounds at the 18.

The negatives were Shurmur's personell and gametime decisions. Hardest on the goaline was NOT the time to bring in an inexperienced backup off the bench who is out of sync with the whole game. Also, the third and 2 run to marecic just sucked major ass.

Another negative is not scoring td's inside the 10. We need to find ways to score td's. Evan Moore would have been a nice target to throw too. Mixing up the playcalling with play actions on first down can help as well.

The last negative was our run d. They are giving up way too many chunks of yards on first downs. Colts suck at running the football and we let them play in second and short all day long. Thank god Kerry Collins sucks as bad as he does to not be able to take advantage of the weapons he has because our run defense played poorly enough to cost us this game.

Greg Little 4 catches for 38 yards...........you call that a positive?! thats so so as so so can get.

@ballpeen said:

Hillis is like John Riggins. He is a 4th qtr back.

He spends the first 3 quarters pounding away at 3-4 yards a clip to gain 60 yards, then in the 4th quarter the pounding begins to take it's toll on a tired D and he gains 45 yards in the 4th.

All big backs are like that....Bettis did it, Allstott did.

With Hillis you just have to keep giving him the ball and trust the averages that he will take over in the 4th qtr.

If he doesn't have around 20-22 carries heading in to the 4th qtr., the game plan was faulty.

Absolutely. And like I said, I think going away from him in the 4th qtr vs. the Bengals was a major mistake. When the Browns had a 17-13 lead they needed to control the ball and pound it down the field toward a score. Instead, they were throwing for 30 yards downfield or throwing it across the field toward the sidelines when Instead I believe they needed to hand it to Hillis or throw quick hitters to the middle of the field.

@the-gipper said:

+ As bad as the running game had been going, it is good that they stuck with it. Hillis, finally after the 25th run broke the one open that we thought he would all game long. They abandoned this strategy last week and I believe that it cost the Browns the win in the Bengals game because of it.

Hillis is like John Riggins. He is a 4th qtr back.

He spends the first 3 quarters pounding away at 3-4 yards a clip to gain 60 yards, then in the 4th quarter the pounding begins to take it's toll on a tired D and he gains 45 yards in the 4th.

All big backs are like that....Bettis did it, Allstott did.

With Hillis you just have to keep giving him the ball and trust the averages that he will take over in the 4th qtr.

If he doesn't have around 20-22 carries heading in to the 4th qtr., the game plan was faulty.

@frenchie said:

In addition to Hillis, Cribbs, Ward, MoMass, and Little mentioned above, I think a few more players deserve thumbs up:

Not happy with:

The final 90 seconds - Colts went downfield quickly and scored.

I'll give you the Colt's beat writer for the Indianapolis Star's take on that one. Collins did move the ball on the last drive, protecting the lead the Browns safetys backed off to Noblesville. (For those of you not familiar with Central Indiana geography, Noblesville is about 25 miles away from Lucas Oil.)

@the-gipper said:

I'll start with my negatives:

- Our linebacker play is still pretty atrocius. We have guys like Taylor and Rubin tieing up the OL so that or MLB can make the play....but DQ Jackson is out of position or knocked on his ass 80% of the time. No one would confuse him with the likes of Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, or any of the better MLBs in the league. Our OLBs may be even worse when it come to the run.

--Our offensive line has some definite problems. We may have two Pro-Bowlers, but the other 3 are weak links. There were few holes opened in the running game, and this against a defense that was terrible against the run in the first place...and then lost most of their LBs to injury before the game began. And it seemed like Colt had to run for his life half the time.

---Yes, play calling at times was abysmal. Better than last week, but still head scratching at times. Putting Hardesty in cold at a critical point in the game was borderline criminal. I want him to get his chances, but not in the red zone when Hillis is the man down there. Put him in in the middle of the 2d quarter at the beginning of a series. Not at that point.

Plusses:

+ As bad as the running game had been going, it is good that they stuck with it. Hillis, finally after the 25th run broke the one open that we thought he would all game long. They abandoned this strategy last week and I believe that it cost the Browns the win in the Bengals game because of it.

++Sheard, Taylor, Rubin, Haden, and Ward all played well....and this group is a good basis as a defense. We need about 5 more back there like them.

+1

I think this game was good to get a "W" but it was clearly a victory in spite of our shortcomings. I won't apologize for it but Shurmur really needs to get to work on some of this.

Phil Taylor / Athyba Rubin combo : man are they good inside the trenches.

Colt Mccoy - Played well enough .

Shurmur : I thought the play calling kept the colts D off balance from consistenly predicting the play and Mccoy executed..I was impressed.

Dick Jauron - Held Indy to FG's till the bitter end. Beauty job by the D buckling down in our end.

That Owen Marecic wears no gloves: retro bonus points.

T.J Ward and Joe Haden are outright stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuds.

The WR's only had two passes defended and no ints. they did a good job.

Negatives: Four fumbles forced by Indy..hang on to the ball boys

Good win in my books! Let's get fired up for Miami

- Our linebacker play is still pretty atrocius. We have guys like Taylor and Rubin tieing up the OL so that or MLB can make the play....but DQ Jackson is out of position or knocked on his ass 80% of the time. No one would confuse him with the likes of Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, or any of the better MLBs in the league. Our OLBs may be even worse when it come to the run.

--Our offensive line has some definite problems. We may have two Pro-Bowlers, but the other 3 are weak links. There were few holes opened in the running game, and this against a defense that was terrible against the run in the first place...and then lost most of their LBs to injury before the game began. And it seemed like Colt had to run for his life half the time.

---Yes, play calling at times was abysmal. Better than last week, but still head scratching at times. Putting Hardesty in cold at a critical point in the game was borderline criminal. I want him to get his chances, but not in the red zone when Hillis is the man down there. Put him in in the middle of the 2d quarter at the beginning of a series. Not at that point.

Plusses:

+ As bad as the running game had been going, it is good that they stuck with it. Hillis, finally after the 25th run broke the one open that we thought he would all game long. They abandoned this strategy last week and I believe that it cost the Browns the win in the Bengals game because of it.

++Sheard, Taylor, Rubin, Haden, and Ward all played well....and this group is a good basis as a defense. We need about 5 more back there like them.

Rubin had a great game on the D-line. Maynard's punting. Colt avoiding the rush. Balanced attack - no more West Coast bullshit - you need to keep the defense guessing by having all plays in your arsenal. Young had an important int and some good hits. Alex Smith, Joe Thomas (except one play). Patterson (except one play). Marecic improved. And we saw a few screen plays!!

Not happy with:

Play calling - as pointed out here, with no big play attempts. Too much up the middle in short yard age - hard to stop Hillis on a sweep.

The final 90 secinds - Colts went downfield quickly and scored.

O-Line did not open holes and McCoy was constantly scrambling. Joe Haden, Hardesty, Robiskie (where was he?). Colt's completion percentage.

@feartheroo said:

Yeah I agree about the negatives. We couldn't stop the run very well, and it seemed like Addai was putting up 5-7 yards per carry. Although at the end of the game the stats didn't really show that. Thankfully we seem to have a very strong redzone defense, holding Indy to field goals for most of the game. But still I go back to them moving right down the field, and having to settle. I think we only forced a punt once in the 1st half?

I think our running game is still struggling. A lot of the Hillis runs seemed to be very short, but thankfully he was able to break free to get those extra yards. Even the long touchdown looked like he was stopped at the line. Hopefully some better blocking can open that up. I was hoping to see a bit more of Hardesty and it seemed like they had him in at the wrong time. At this point in his career I see him as a 1st or 2nd down runner. Gives him a chance to pick up some yards, but if he doesn't it won't hurt us since we have another down to get the 1st. Using him on 3rd was a bad choice.

agree 100%.

@darubes said:

There are a few MAJOR negatives that I saw in the game. First and foremost is

that as always the Browns simply cannot stop the run.Indy is a poor running

team yet they still gouged the Browns repeatedly.

Secondly,as last week shows if you let a bad team in the game they will beat

you or come close. The Browns should have put the game away much earlier. You

can't continue to take field goals with the field position we had. You have to

stick the ball in the end-zone and put away a bad team. No killer instinct here.

Still a W is a W and with our talent they will all be close.

Yeah I agree about the negatives. We couldn't stop the run very well, and it seemed like Addai was putting up 5-7 yards per carry. Although at the end of the game the stats didn't really show that. Thankfully we seem to have a very strong redzone defense, holding Indy to field goals for most of the game. But still I go back to them moving right down the field, and having to settle. I think we only forced a punt once in the 1st half?

I think our running game is still struggling. A lot of the Hillis runs seemed to be very short, but thankfully he was able to break free to get those extra yards. Even the long touchdown looked like he was stopped at the line. Hopefully some better blocking can open that up. I was hoping to see a bit more of Hardesty and it seemed like they had him in at the wrong time. At this point in his career I see him as a 1st or 2nd down runner. Gives him a chance to pick up some yards, but if he doesn't it won't hurt us since we have another down to get the 1st. Using him on 3rd was a bad choice.

@bodybuilder32 said:

Positives- Josh Cribbs winning us the game on special teams and quick screens. This guy does not cease to amaze me on how many guys he can make miss. Shurmur did a great job using him on offense.

Greg Little's performance was a positive not a so-so. He made tough catches in traffic that helped moved the chains. Perfect execution for the west coast offense. He will catch balls downfield as soon as we get an offensive line that can protect out qb.

Jaball Sheard got to the qb and made plays behind the LOS. He is developing into a playmaker.

TJ Ward showed great coverage ability today. He should be off everyone's shit list now.

Smith made tough catches in traffic and took many shots while doing so. He helped his qb out by being a reliable target.

Hillis was a total beast today earning every yard he gained. I don't believe there is any other back in the NFL that would have got the yardage he got today with the browns lackluster offensive line.

The so-so was Colt Mccoy. He managed the game well, no turnovers, scrambled for a first down, throws well outside of the pocket. He missed a few open looks today (hillis in the goaline the most obvious) he almost had a fumble for loss, and he gets his receivers killed by throwing into zone coverages where the defender is closing down hard. He played o.k, even slightly good, but not anything to be impressed about.

Another so-so is our punter. He is a hige improvement from McGee, but I would have liked to see him pin the colts back inside the 10 atleast once instead of out of bounds at the 18.

The negatives were Shurmur's personell and gametime decisions. Hardest on the goaline was NOT the time to bring in an inexperienced backup off the bench who is out of sync with the whole game. Also, the third and 2 run to marecic just sucked major ass.

Another negative is not scoring td's inside the 10. We need to find ways to score td's. Evan Moore would have been a nice target to throw too. Mixing up the playcalling with play actions on first down can help as well.

The last negative was our run d. They are giving up way too many chunks of yards on first downs. Colts suck at running the football and we let them play in second and short all day long. Thank god Kerry Collins sucks as bad as he does to not be able to take advantage of the weapons he has because our run defense played poorly enough to cost us this game.

I think we have seen all of the negatives you just posted for the past 12 years under various coaches and GMs so its not going to be fixed overnight but its a start and yeah not stopping the run and not applying enough timely 4 man pressure on the QB is always a concern and i cant wait until this regime nails it down for good....

The playcalling is hit and miss and there is much to be done the process has only just begun, theres a long ways to go yet..

@represent said:

Just post how you think things went.

Positives

+1 Peyton Hillis does what Peyton Hillis is supposed to do minus the one fumble, good healthy dose of Hillis this week.

+1 Momass not insane but its good to see him grabbing the ball if he picks it up a little and gets a few more RZ Targets on those corners he might change my mind this year.

+1 Defense did way better then the final score, as a whole they got the job done in key situations this week.

So SO'S!!!

Colt Mccoy managed the game ok but not stud worthy yet.

Greg Little he isn't getting plays dialed up for him to go big which is a let down this guy could break a few plays???

Negatives

Play Calling, i thought it was 50/50 3rd and 1 or 2 and we pass,pass,pass choke,choke,choke run with marechic and he chokes, i believe the browns lost themselves 10 points on these drives at a min.

Not one pass was even thrown over 25 yards? we were that scared to throw against them? just gotta ask the question that's all. (well there was but point stays the same)

Coaching Personal Decisions Two Biggest rants i have at the end of this game.

1. 1st and goal we don't have peyton hillis in the game and we go Hardesty, Hardesty, bring in Hillis on 3rd down and we roll him out? he was wide open, i was kind of hurt colt didn't hit him in the numbers but the fact he wasn't on the field until then made me kick myself in the face.

2. EVAN MOORE this guy is a stud my friends he was targeted in the red zone 3 times last week nailed you a TD and almost had another one, this week he gets in on a 3rd down play and scores ya a 16 yd TD so can anyone tell me (Least an Injury) Why he was NOT on the field 95% of the entire game this week, i watched the game and i don't think he was on the field for more then 5 plays? Someone with his ability and play making abilities why are most of these offensive packages aren't having him highlighted.... Two weeks 2 Touchdowns he could be doing better if he was on the field and so would the browns, we complain about our offensive lacking stars well HERE IS A UP AND COMER AND WE DON'T PLAY EM ok.

Thats how i see this week, yes we won loved it i'll take it, lots of improvement shown but we need to utilize our weapons to benefit our play calling more than it is right now.

I can agree with all of the OPs rant and raves and add as a positive that our rooks taylor and sheard are starting to take root and flourish a bit and that its just a matter of time before it all comes together..

In the meantime there is a lot of slop and some junk playcalling that needs to be worked on but overall not bad for a team and coaches that are learning on the job as they go..

that as always the Browns simply cannot stop the run.Indy is a poor running

team yet they still gouged the Browns repeatedly.

Secondly,as last week shows if you let a bad team in the game they will beat

you or come close. The Browns should have put the game away much earlier. You

can't continue to take field goals with the field position we had. You have to

stick the ball in the end-zone and put away a bad team. No killer instinct here.

Still a W is a W and with our talent they will all be close.

Greg Little's performance was a positive not a so-so. He made tough catches in traffic that helped moved the chains. Perfect execution for the west coast offense. He will catch balls downfield as soon as we get an offensive line that can protect out qb.

Jaball Sheard got to the qb and made plays behind the LOS. He is developing into a playmaker.

TJ Ward showed great coverage ability today. He should be off everyone's shit list now.

Smith made tough catches in traffic and took many shots while doing so. He helped his qb out by being a reliable target.

Hillis was a total beast today earning every yard he gained. I don't believe there is any other back in the NFL that would have got the yardage he got today with the browns lackluster offensive line.

The so-so was Colt Mccoy. He managed the game well, no turnovers, scrambled for a first down, throws well outside of the pocket. He missed a few open looks today (hillis in the goaline the most obvious) he almost had a fumble for loss, and he gets his receivers killed by throwing into zone coverages where the defender is closing down hard. He played o.k, even slightly good, but not anything to be impressed about.

Another so-so is our punter. He is a hige improvement from McGee, but I would have liked to see him pin the colts back inside the 10 atleast once instead of out of bounds at the 18.

The negatives were Shurmur's personell and gametime decisions. Hardest on the goaline was NOT the time to bring in an inexperienced backup off the bench who is out of sync with the whole game. Also, the third and 2 run to marecic just sucked major ass.

Another negative is not scoring td's inside the 10. We need to find ways to score td's. Evan Moore would have been a nice target to throw too. Mixing up the playcalling with play actions on first down can help as well.

The last negative was our run d. They are giving up way too many chunks of yards on first downs. Colts suck at running the football and we let them play in second and short all day long. Thank god Kerry Collins sucks as bad as he does to not be able to take advantage of the weapons he has because our run defense played poorly enough to cost us this game.