@the-gipper said:

True. They really have to settle down and get more stability. They seem to be like a TV Network...unless a new show is a hit right out of the gate it gets cancelled. Some of the best shows in TV history got off to slow starts (like MASH, Seinfeld, etc.). But that was in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Since the 90s a show is given about 5 episodes to become a hit or they go on to something else. The same has become true in Football. Head coaches that got off to very slow starts included: Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, and others....all had at least 2 or more losing seasons when they started their careers.

Well look at who we hired since our re birth.. None of these guys will ever be head coaches again and all are tools. Mangini only got another job because every NY coach who gets fired eventually gets a second chance some where.. Herman Edwards, mangini, fassel, kotite..

The problem with the Browns is we need a franchise QB. Belichick is only a genious because Tom Brady happened to be there. You have a franchise QB and you have a good coach..

Tony dungy, good coach?? or product of peyton manning??

Until we get a franchise QB, we will have a revolving door for our head coach

@gafreleets said:

isn't that the average lifespan of a browns HC?

True. They really have to settle down and get more stability. They seem to be like a TV Network...unless a new show is a hit right out of the gate it gets cancelled. Some of the best shows in TV history got off to slow starts (like MASH, Seinfeld, etc.). But that was in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Since the 90s a show is given about 5 episodes to become a hit or they go on to something else. The same has become true in Football. Head coaches that got off to very slow starts included: Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, and others....all had at least 2 or more losing seasons when they started their careers.

@gafreleets said:

first and foremost.......did my Steelers have a horrible game and the makings of a sub-par season? yep

is it probably gonna be an "off year" for them? looking that way so far.

but that's where the difference between our teams is. it IS an OFF YEAR for us.

not just a typical year like it would be for you guys. if we have a bad year, ok.......time to make some adjustments and be back in competitive form next year.

if the browns are having a bad year.......................wait, it's the browns, so i should just say "year". saying "bad year" insinuates that it is somehow different from your norm.

Maybe in fact it is the start of an "off decade" for the Steelers. They are likely to lose their heart and soul after this year when Dick LeBeau retires. There is not guarantee that that team will continue to be successful. You know what they say about the NFL: it is cyclical. The Steelers had 40 years of garbage from the outset of that franchise. And now they have had 40 years of success. Perhaps the cycle is now set for you to have 40 years of garbage again?

@usfbrown said:

Really? Chill the hell out. You come up in here all worshiping Hillis with your name and stupid picture. You a Hillis or Brown's fan?

You usually make good points but you're acting like you know all and everyone else is dumb. Guess what buddy... our bitching and wanting a regime change (not that I want one again) has absolutely, ZERO affect on the team. Us fans control nothing. We have no input into the team besides cheering or booing.

The guys here have a lot of time invested in the team and miktoxic is right, we have paid our dues and have every right to bitch and complain all we want.

Well I feel I have to right to bitch when I hear idiotic ideas like this one. 4 games into the season and look at the topics we have to choice from, including this topic we have two that are calling for offensive system changes. Changing a system isn't like changing a pair of pants.

I resurve the right to bitch about the team too, but I also reserve the right to bitch about how fans react because for my 20 years of being a Browns fan I have had to listen and deal with as much mindless bitching (as in a bunch of idiots spouting a bunch of stupid ideas like this one) about as much as I have had to deal with the team playing like shit.

You right a week of fans bitching and moaning for coaching, FO, and personnel changes won't change anything, but a full season or two and another coach is ran out of town. You think a fan base has nothing to do with getting people fired or people wanting to come here to Cleveland. Your delusional.

I also reserve the right to not only be a Browns fan but a Hillis fan and it makes a shit load more sense than you in a Browns forum with a University of South Florida name and picture, but hey I'm not so much an ass hole that I am going to make fun of you for it and make it a basses for an argument.

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

Bitch all you want but you might as well toss the idea of changing the offense every xxxxing time there is a change in personnel. If teams worked by that logic they would change offensive systems every 5 years or so.

Really? Chill the hell out. You come up in here all worshiping Hillis with your name and stupid picture. You a Hillis or Brown's fan?

You usually make good points but you're acting like you know all and everyone else is dumb. Guess what buddy... our bitching and wanting a regime change (not that I want one again) has absolutely, ZERO affect on the team. Us fans control nothing. We have no input into the team besides cheering or booing.

The guys here have a lot of time invested in the team and miktoxic is right, we have paid our dues and have every right to bitch and complain all we want.

@the-gipper said:

Its only been 4 games now. It usually takes about 1.5 years for it to get going....

isn't that the average lifespan of a browns HC?

@wrrebel said:

Yeah and ur gay steelers looked awesome also.. I never said we would be awesome in wco..

@choco said:

still here poking fun after your swiss cheese OL got your QB hurt again? ur vaunted defense gave up 176 yards rushing....go lick your own wounds. youre in no place to poke and prod.

first and foremost.......did my Steelers have a horrible game and the makings of a sub-par season? yep

is it probably gonna be an "off year" for them? looking that way so far.

but that's where the difference between our teams is. it IS an OFF YEAR for us.

not just a typical year like it would be for you guys. if we have a bad year, ok.......time to make some adjustments and be back in competitive form next year.

if the browns are having a bad year.......................wait, it's the browns, so i should just say "year". saying "bad year" insinuates that it is somehow different from your norm.

@gafreleets said:

thought i heard all offseason how well your team was gonna do now that you'd be running the WCO?

Its only been 4 games now. It usually takes about 1.5 years for it to get going...if you have the proper personell. No system is going to make a good player out of a bad player. The WRs Browns have I do not for the most part think are NWCO friendly. The right side of the O Line is still a mess. (Why do you think McCoy is running for his life so much).

And no offensive system is going to make up for slow linebackers and poor tackling by the defense...which is far more of a problem for this team right now.

@soju said:

I can't help but to notice the theme in this thread: Fire! Fire! Fire!

When the XXXX are we going to have some consistency on this team? Huh? WHen are we going to commit to a guy longer than 3-4 years?

This BS has to stop.

Sojo are u kidding me?? We have consistency on this team!

@soju said:

I can't help but to notice the theme in this thread: Fire! Fire! Fire!

When the XXXX are we going to have some consistency on this team? Huh? WHen are we going to commit to a guy longer than 3-4 years?

This BS has to stop.

dude show me anywhere in this thread where anyone said to fire shumur?? are you guys blind or just want to put words in people's mouths.

show me. pleeez. yeah exactly. only people that are saying the words fire shurmur are the ones saying to calm down and not say fire.

When the XXXX are we going to have some consistency on this team? Huh? WHen are we going to commit to a guy longer than 3-4 years?

This BS has to stop.

@choco said:

^^^^ zing!

well....im not calling for the firings yet...but i will unless shumur and jauron get their heads outta their asses.

besides, if your coach sux (TBD) as well as the people that hired him, why would you stick with him just for more of the same. that was the argument against mangini. if shurmur fails as a HC, sticking with him for the sake of continuity only means youre hanging onto a shitty coach with a shitty system to remain consistently shitty.

[/quote

That's what I'm trying to say. If your going to run a certain system.............why don't they get THAT certain system players?

well....im not calling for the firings yet...but i will unless shumur and jauron get their heads outta their asses.

besides, if your coach sux (TBD) as well as the people that hired him, why would you stick with him just for more of the same. that was the argument against mangini. if shurmur fails as a HC, sticking with him for the sake of continuity only means youre hanging onto a shitty coach with a shitty system to remain consistently shitty.

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

And's it people like you that this organization is shit. 3 years and out, more like 3 games and constant jeering until fired. No one wants to come here because if they play a bad game they get booed, good coaches don't want to come here because they know they hardly have a few games before their heads get put on chopping blocks.

By the way who was available to hire as coach this year that we could have hired other than Shurmer. NO xxxxING BODY! And bitch about a guy who was too sick. Real classy, right up there with cheering when Anderson tore his knee, see my players don't want to come here comment. Over a hundred degree temp with a sickness that you would gladly use as an excuse to get out of work all week and apparently he's such a xxxxing pussy. xxxxing hypocrit.

Ya a shitty lose and I didn't see a lot of effort either, but enough of this two years and out bullshit. Stick with a FO, stick with a coach, find us an above average O-Line, and for the love of god get us a franchise QB because so far McCoy looks like a sad lost puppy who won't throw to a WR unless they are open by 10 yards.

you're only agreeing with me chumly, albeit a year late. so when they fired mangini you were up in arms and bitching about how we have to stick with a coach and a system? yeah right. who's the hypocrite? didn't 'your boy' have a career year last year? oh but it's all right to pull the rug out from underneath him and the other players when mangini was fired? what an ass.

nobody's calling for anyone to be fired, slappy. slow down. don't start another cycle of roids while drinking it's not good for the liver. ask hillis, he knows.

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

Bitch all you want but you might as well toss the idea of changing the offense every xxxxing time there is a change in personnel. If teams worked by that logic they would change offensive systems every 5 years or so.

well if they are going to run this offense..........why did they go into this season with this group of receivers?

NONE of them are good enough to be the #1 guy in the westcoast system. ANd watching the offense today, how many times did you see 4 wr's on the field? We don't even have 4 receivers good enough to play on the same play. We were in throwing mode the entire second half and we still put 2 TE's and 2 Wr's out there.

That's on the people aquiring players.

@miktoxic said:

"at the end of the day" i know we all want the browns to win. we all blow off steam in a different way.

when it finally does happen we'll all be happy but definitely not agree whether or not it was the right way to get there.

30+ years invested in this team so far resulting in two ulcers and no hair gives people like me the right to bitch.

I don't have the ulcers. But I have 41 years invested and 13 years of season tickets, and the no hair part, so I can bitch ALL DAY LONG. I have literally paid my dues

@browns149 said:

How does this offense play to our strengths??????????????? Our only strength is power running, and that's not the westcoast way. Good for our wr's strengths??? Our wr have NO strengths. They can't get off the line, they can't go deep.

I was trying to point out that the people in charge want to run a certain style offense,but yet they didn't get those kind of players. We need good wr's that can get open and go deep.

Your a xxxxing moron. WCO=short quick routes. You don't need speed burners and an abundance of great WR to run that. You can also have a power running game while running the WCO, I honestly haven't seen any difference between what our running plays look like from last year to this year. If we went with your way of thinking we would be changing the xxxxing offense we run every stupid xxxxing year, which makes even less sense when you realize that different coaches specialize in different offenses. So once again, use your xxxxing head.

@miktoxic said:

dude if anyone should be pissed it should be you. your boy was the shit last year. what's going on this year? strep throat....yeah, ok.

i know we're all guilty of it from time to time but one fan shouldn't dump on another's right to bitch when they want too. this shit has been going on way too long. we all believe in some bs and getted revved up for the new season only to see the team look worse than it did the previous year. what do you suggest???

And's it people like you that this organization is shit. 3 years and out, more like 3 games and constant jeering until fired. No one wants to come here because if they play a bad game they get booed, good coaches don't want to come here because they know they hardly have a few games before their heads get put on chopping blocks.

By the way who was available to hire as coach this year that we could have hired other than Shurmer. NO xxxxING BODY! And bitch about a guy who was too sick. Real classy, right up there with cheering when Anderson tore his knee, see my players don't want to come here comment. Over a hundred degree temp with a sickness that you would gladly use as an excuse to get out of work all week and apparently he's such a xxxxing pussy. xxxxing hypocrit.

Ya a shitty lose and I didn't see a lot of effort either, but enough of this two years and out bullshit. Stick with a FO, stick with a coach, find us an above average O-Line, and for the love of god get us a franchise QB because so far McCoy looks like a sad lost puppy who won't throw to a WR unless they are open by 10 yards.

when it finally does happen we'll all be happy but definitely not agree whether or not it was the right way to get there.

30+ years invested in this team so far resulting in two ulcers and no hair gives people like me the right to bitch.

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

What the xxxx do you want! To change the offense every god damn year to match the players we bring in, to only switch to the WCO when we have all the right players, or to just stick with the same shitty offense we ran the past several years THAT DOES NOT WORK! xxxxing idiots like you try to make it seem so god damn simple, well it's not. This system is actually good for our WR's, it plays to their strengths, any other offense and they would be doing even worse than they are now, regardless of our offense our o-line would still look like a pile of shit Thomas included, and McCoy regardless of the offense he is running would still be throwing to his check down guy 80% of the time. Use your xxxxing head.

How does this offense play to our strengths??????????????? Our only strength is power running, and that's not the westcoast way. Good for our wr's strengths??? Our wr have NO strengths. They can't get off the line, they can't go deep.

I was trying to point out that the people in charge want to run a certain style offense,but yet they didn't get those kind of players. We need good wr's that can get open and go deep.