<![CDATA[The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective]]>I think I speak for most Patriots fans - and probably most football fans - when I say that I hope things turn around in Cleveland. Such a storied organization like the Browns and its dedicated and "football smart" fans deserve to have a strong organization.

Sadly, what I'm watching with Lerner and his infatuation with Mangini right now makes me worry.

A few thoughts of mine:

The key to success is excellence in the front office and on the field (and yes, that might mean clearing house). That means a GM and Coach need to be on completely the same page - and while they don't always 100% agree, they have the same goals and types of players and overall scheme in mind, and serve as a check and balance to make sure goals are met.

That's what works for Pioli and Belichick - and frankly, I don't think Pioli feels like he's undervalued in NE - he's a key part of Belichick's success (and we hope his presumably internal successor will continue that good work with Belichick if he decides to move on).

With a coach the caliber of Belichick, who could conceivably serve as a defacto GM if he had the time (which no coach does) it makes sense to hire a coach first. There's a few other coaches out there that fall into that category - but Mangini is NOT one of them.

Having Lerner even entertain the notion of hiring a coach like Mangini before deciding on a GM should be a BIG red flag to everyone in Cleveland. Mangini might not be the worst coach out there - but his sub- .479 total record in three years can't be solely blamed on Brett Favre either. I'd say that record accurately portrays what you'd be getting in Mangnini.

Even this season, as much as people want to blame 9-7 season (really, what should have been an 8-8 season if Dick Jauron had't given the Jets a win with a bonehead move) on a mediocre former HoF QB, look around the league and you'll see that there are plenty of successful teams who did far more with far less than the Jets had. And keep in mind that the Jets gave Mangini more than just a new QB - they gave him $140 million worth of off-season free agents. And for that they get an 8-8 record.

Also be wary of Mangini's player relations. He abdicated too much control during his tenure in New York and its questionable whether he can change his ways or redefine himself. As much as some Jets players might be singing his praises today, part of that is the fact that they knew they could manipulate Mangini. There were more than a few players in NY who were able to force him to trade them or force him into giving a contract extension.

In short, Mangini let the inmates run the asylum - and I'm sure there's plently of folks in the Browns front office pulling for him for exactly that reason, wanting to hold onto their jobs.

What you should want is a Coach and GM who can build enough of a commitment to quality and excellence in the locker room and the front office to inspire a winning attitude. With such an environment an organization can have an All-Pro Injured Reserve team and still have the quality backups (thanks to a good GM) continue the winning ways (like the 11-5 Patriots for example)

So here's hoping Lerner makes the right choice for the fans in Cleveland - but this infatuation Mangnini makes me worry for you guys.

Good luck on a good, if not great 2009 season.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/topic/2051/the-browns-gm-coach-search-from-a-patsfan-s-perspectiveRSS for NodeFri, 02 Oct 2026 12:35:43 GMTSun, 04 Jan 2009 15:42:04 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:18:47 GMT]]>

@rich4eagle said:

Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game

FAIL.

No he didn't call the play, and he never said he called the play. He is a HC, and they're responsible for the team and how it plays. Did you expect him to throw his QB and OC under a bus?

Here is a newsflash: Head coaches in the NFL hire OC's to call the plays and put the package together.

Head coaches take the fall or reap the rewards.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/28111https://brownsboard.com/post/28111Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:18:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:04:57 GMT]]>

@rich4eagle said:

Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game

What Jauron said was β€œClearly the responsibility for the last call, the play-action pass, that was mine”. That's not sayign he called the play, only that he is responsible for it, like any good HC should say.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/28105https://brownsboard.com/post/28105Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:04:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:00:58 GMT]]>

@joesixpat said:

πŸ™„

You might want to study up on your potential head coach. Without Dick Jauron literally turning a win into a loss, Mangini's 8-8. Not that I'm expecting any Browns fans to follow the Jets or any AFC East team quite that closely.

But what was their record? I didn't realize the NFL took away wins for another teams bad coaching.

So I guess you didn't see Favre go through his last 4 games with 2 TDs and 8 INTs.....

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/28101https://brownsboard.com/post/28101Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:00:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:58:40 GMT]]>

@rich4eagle said:

Especially Paul Brown he was a failure coming from college and Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer and Don Coryell and Tom Coughlin and Sid Gillman and Jim Lee Howell and Hank Stram......to name a few busts who came from college

Let's see Rich, 90% of your list include guys from 20 years ago. This ain't the same NFL it was 20 years ago.

So let me be more specific, it doesn't work today in the NFL.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/28099https://brownsboard.com/post/28099Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:58:40 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:10:14 GMT]]>

@vegasdogg said:

He was right and you were wrong. They were 9-7. Dick Jauron didn't cough up the football, nor did he call the play - a galactically stupid play call.

Let me tell you something about the Browns fans on this board. We follow everybody, so while you were treated with some disdain when you first arrived, perhaps you can set that aside for awhile and not take it so personally.

Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27990https://brownsboard.com/post/27990Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:10:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:04:56 GMT]]>

@joesixpat said:

Had the Bills not given that game away with a bonehead playcall the Patriots are in the playoffs right now.

Oh okay genius. I guess losing to Mangini's Jets had nothing to do with you guys missing the playoffs. Or taking a giant shit against the Steelers had zero to do with you missing the playoffs.

After Pittsburgh handed you your ass, you beat SEA (by only 3), OAK, ARI and BUF. I am not impressed.

Save your Bostonian whining for another board, we're all stocked up here.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27986https://brownsboard.com/post/27986Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:04:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:53:23 GMT]]>

@vegasdogg said:

He was right and you were wrong. They were 9-7. Dick Jauron didn't cough up the football, nor did he call the play - a galactically stupid play call.

Let me tell you something about the Browns fans on this board. We follow everybody, so while you were treated with some disdain when you first arrived, perhaps you can set that aside for awhile and not take it so personally.

You really think I don't know exactly what their record was? :rofl:

Had the Bills not given that game away with a bonehead playcall the Patriots are in the playoffs right now.

I don't care who Jauron or anyone else blames for it. You sure can't give any credit to Mangini's "genius" for the Bills giving that game away - for all intents and purposes he's an 8-8 coach.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27981https://brownsboard.com/post/27981Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:53:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:04:10 GMT]]>

Zombo said:

2004 with Crennel as DC, patriots defense was #2 by points and #9 by yards.

2005 with Mangini as DC, they dropped to 17th and 26th.

2006 without Mangini they are 2nd and 6th

Jets defense was ranked 7th and 12th in 04-05 under Herm Edwards, then 20th, 18th and 16th with Mangini.

I just don't see that he's ever really accomplished anything.

Zombo

Those are some damning statistics, thanks for doing the legwork.

I'd say it isn't that he's never really accomplished anything. It's much much worse than that. But I think you meant to undersell the fact...

Hopefully it's his supposed rapport with players that we'd hire him for. Not his defensive creativity/playcalling.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27956https://brownsboard.com/post/27956Mon, 05 Jan 2009 03:04:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:55:29 GMT]]>

Zombo said:

I just don't see that he's ever really accomplished anything.

Zombo

Apparently he is a good interviewee. πŸ™„πŸ™„πŸ™„

Lerner is enamored with him. Enthralled with him. Whatever.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27953https://brownsboard.com/post/27953Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:55:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:44:37 GMT]]>

@joesixpat said:

πŸ™„

You might want to study up on your potential head coach. Without Dick Jauron literally turning a win into a loss, Mangini's 8-8. Not that I'm expecting any Browns fans to follow the Jets or any AFC East team quite that closely.

He was right and you were wrong. They were 9-7. Dick Jauron didn't cough up the football, nor did he call the play - a galactically stupid play call.

Let me tell you something about the Browns fans on this board. We follow everybody, so while you were treated with some disdain when you first arrived, perhaps you can set that aside for awhile and not take it so personally.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27950https://brownsboard.com/post/27950Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:44:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:42:36 GMT]]>

Masters said:

You lost me, and blew your note above as soon as you stated the record. If you know what you rivals are doing, how do you not know they were 9-7, not 8-8 πŸ™„

πŸ™„

You might want to study up on your potential head coach. Without Dick Jauron literally turning a win into a loss, Mangini's 8-8. Not that I'm expecting any Browns fans to follow the Jets or any AFC East team quite that closely.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27928https://brownsboard.com/post/27928Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:42:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:31:10 GMT]]>Lets hire McKay and let him hire the coach.

I dont like Pioli from what ive read and I dont want "SAvage New and Improved part -2"

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27923https://brownsboard.com/post/27923Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:31:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:03:21 GMT]]>

Masters said:

I followed you. That was my point on Mangini. He has experience at HC and isn't coming from college.

One thing for sure, no college coaches. They don't work.

Especially Paul Brown he was a failure coming from college and Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer and Don Coryell and Tom Coughlin and Sid Gillman and Jim Lee Howell and Hank Stram......to name a few busts who came from college

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27922https://brownsboard.com/post/27922Mon, 05 Jan 2009 02:03:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:17:16 GMT]]>

@joesixpat said:

which resulted in an 8-8 season under his management. (Yes, believe it or not Patriots fans are actually quite knowledgable about the goings on of a division rival)

You lost me, and blew your note above as soon as you stated the record. If you know what you rivals are doing, how do you not know they were 9-7, not 8-8 πŸ™„

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27916https://brownsboard.com/post/27916Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:17:16 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:14:01 GMT]]>Looks like there's a good chance the Brown fans here are going to get their wish and get Mangini, and his hand picked GM candidate.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/04/...#comment-180951

I won't bother arguing any football points as before since its clear no one wants to address any of it - though I will reiterate that Mangini had considerable input into how the Jets spent $140 million in offseason cash - which resulted in an 8-8 season under his management. (Yes, believe it or not Patriots fans are actually quite knowledgable about the goings on of a division rival)

Sure, the Kool-Aid says blame Tannenbaum rather than your potential head coach (and defacto GM, since he's the one Lerner seems to be abdicating that choice to) but I can't help but notice that the Jets owner fired Mangini, not Tannenbaum.

But in general I hope everything works out for you guys potentially bringing in a former Patriot defensive coordinator and Ravens personnel guy! Seems like a proven combination from my perspective.

What could possibly go wrong?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27910https://brownsboard.com/post/27910Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:14:01 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:40:34 GMT]]>Lol sorry. I just have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I mean Lerner obviously is doing the best he can, I just hope he makes the RIGHT decision this time around and get it right.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27826https://brownsboard.com/post/27826Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:40:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:36:35 GMT]]>

@kardiackid26 said:

I meant not experimenting with with college coaches or anyone who hasn't coached before. We've been down that road before

I followed you. That was my point on Mangini. He has experience at HC and isn't coming from college.

One thing for sure, no college coaches. They don't work.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27823https://brownsboard.com/post/27823Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:36:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:34:54 GMT]]>

Masters said:

Don't we all.

On the plus side, Mangini really wouldn't be experimenting.

I meant not experimenting with with college coaches or anyone who hasn't coached before. We've been down that road before

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27821https://brownsboard.com/post/27821Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:34:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:31:37 GMT]]>

@kardiackid26 said:

True. I just want the right solution this time, no more experimenting, no more hiring boneheads like savage, i want the browns to be taken serious in the league.... maybe eventually be in the same sentence with the Patriots, Colts, and Giants.

Don't we all.

On the plus side, Mangini really wouldn't be experimenting.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27814https://brownsboard.com/post/27814Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:31:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:27:26 GMT]]>

Masters said:

I am not advocating Mangini. But I certainly don't get the hard knocks on him.

Reality is, there are no sure things, no matter who CLE hires.

True. I just want the right solution this time, no more experimenting, no more hiring boneheads like savage, i want the browns to be taken serious in the league.... maybe eventually be in the same sentence with the Patriots, Colts, and Giants.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27811https://brownsboard.com/post/27811Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:27:26 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:23:10 GMT]]>I am not advocating Mangini. But I certainly don't get the hard knocks on him.

Reality is, there are no sure things, no matter who CLE hires.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27808https://brownsboard.com/post/27808Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:23:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:21:33 GMT]]>I'm just saying, I dont see us doing anything special with Mangini. Maybe one or two playoff appearances, but we need a team to look foward to in cleveland. The cavs cant be the only answer

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27804https://brownsboard.com/post/27804Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:21:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:17:41 GMT]]>

@kardiackid26 said:

Yeah but if Pioli is hired, he picks who the coach is. The coach is the one who wins games. The GM just makes all the player decisions, bringing them in through free agency or the draft. Mangini already failed in NY so why would we pick him up?

23-25 in 3 years, with 1 playoff appearance is hardly failure in the NFL at HC. It's about the same as BB did in his first job in 5 years.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27801https://brownsboard.com/post/27801Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:17:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Browns GM/Coach Search - from a Patsfan's perspective on Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:15:56 GMT]]>

@ytownbrownsbacker said:

Not that I'm convinced that Mangini is our answer, but tell me how many games Pioli will win us. Do you really think a GM means more to a team then a HC? Obviously Savage did.

Belichick doesn't, he makes the decisions and Pioli watches the money and works with the scouts.

Then there is the speculation that Pioli is just playing us. That comes from both Boston and Cleveland insiders. He threw Ferentz up so he could stonewall the process. So, how has Lerner F**ked up yet. He is interviewing people. He had to interview some candidates before Sunday because their teams are in the playoffs. What's wrong with that? He talked to Cowher and Shanahan, maybe Parcells next. He had to waite until Atlanta lost this week to talk to McKay.

He hasn't named Mangini coach. The media might have though, but I think he is giving Pioli till Monday to shit or get off the pot. Talk is talk, but you could do a hell of a lot worse then Mangini. Would you rather he be interviewing college coaches or some broken down retreads from years gone by.

Yeah but if Pioli is hired, he picks who the coach is. The coach is the one who wins games. The GM just makes all the player decisions, bringing them in through free agency or the draft. Mangini already failed in NY so why would we pick him up?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/27800https://brownsboard.com/post/27800Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:15:56 GMT