You're just trying to hate against Colt instead of looking at it objectively. Sure, he's no Peyton Newton-Brady. But he's not Chad Henne, either.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Outside of the Tennessee game, none of McCoy's stats were really recorded in "garbage time". We haven't been blown out this season, and our losses have never been by more than 10 points (excluding the Tennessee game).

The reason his stats are so inflated in the fourth quarter is because by that time he's no longer running the "WCO" that Shurmur is trying to install. Once we hit the "hurry-up" offense, Colt is calling his own plays from the line and is more often than not in Shotgun. In all actuality, his fourth quarter stats are probably more his "true" stats than the other 3 quarters.

Ya know i wish they'd go to a hurry up more often than they do. He'll start the game out that way

@choco said:

and against a prevent D....hence garbage time. theyre giving him the only stuff he can complete...the underneath routes. he has yet to beat a base defense.

Lmfao gotta love those blitzing prevent defenses. I've seen worse qbs in better offenses for the browns. You can complain till the browns get it right then u can emerge as if ur the one all along that had the blueprints. But for now the whole offense sucks so bash whomever you want ghoolie oh i mean chocco chicken

The reason his stats are so inflated in the fourth quarter is because by that time he's no longer running the "WCO" that Shurmur is trying to install. Once we hit the "hurry-up" offense, Colt is calling his own plays from the line and is more often than not in Shotgun. In all actuality, his fourth quarter stats are probably more his "true" stats than the other 3 quarters.

@choco said:

ok....so you say alot in these couple sentences...

youre saying fundamentals dont matter. these are things experts look at, evaluate....so why would they even mention it? while i agree numbers are important, there's more to this game than just numbers. stats often lie....for instance, a good portion of colts numbers have come in garbage time when we are trailing. do his stats reflect how badly the offense plays thru the first 3 quarters? do they reflect the number of times receivers run bad routes, colt misses reads/an open receiver, or the number of checkdown completions for 2 yards? footwork is very important to a QB whether you realize it or not....it helps him line up, focus, and deliver the ball quickly an accurately. this directly leads to mccoys accuracy problems....he dances and hops around in the pocket instead of planting his feet and throwing. this the result of the OL? some of it at the very minimum....but unless he settles and learns to plant his feet, his velocity and accuracy will suffer (which is whats been observed). just because it seems like mumble jumble to you has no relevance to the ability of a trained eye to use those evaluations to judge a QB (im not that good, no, but colts problem with footwork is very easy to see.)

so while a talent evaluator goes by what they see on film, casual fans without that ability go by stats. its their tool to evaluate the game. so im sorry, but if you think colt is doing just fine cause his numbers are slightly improved with the same supporting cast, then you are seriously missing the true story of just what the hell is going wrong with this team.

@cdl15 said:

Footwork, field view or whatever sounds like mumble jumble to make people sound like they know more about shit than they really do. Cause i hear all the experts on tv say man his Footwork is all messed up. Remind u his numbers r better with a weaker supporting cast around him.

ok....so you say alot in these couple sentences...

youre saying fundamentals dont matter. these are things experts look at, evaluate....so why would they even mention it? while i agree numbers are important, there's more to this game than just numbers. stats often lie....for instance, a good portion of colts numbers have come in garbage time when we are trailing. do his stats reflect how badly the offense plays thru the first 3 quarters? do they reflect the number of times receivers run bad routes, colt misses reads/an open receiver, or the number of checkdown completions for 2 yards? footwork is very important to a QB whether you realize it or not....it helps him line up, focus, and deliver the ball quickly an accurately. this directly leads to mccoys accuracy problems....he dances and hops around in the pocket instead of planting his feet and throwing. this the result of the OL? some of it at the very minimum....but unless he settles and learns to plant his feet, his velocity and accuracy will suffer (which is whats been observed). just because it seems like mumble jumble to you has no relevance to the ability of a trained eye to use those evaluations to judge a QB (im not that good, no, but colts problem with footwork is very easy to see.)

so while a talent evaluator goes by what they see on film, casual fans without that ability go by stats. its their tool to evaluate the game. so im sorry, but if you think colt is doing just fine cause his numbers are slightly improved with the same supporting cast, then you are seriously missing the true story of just what the hell is going wrong with this team.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Holmgren didn't pick McCoy to be "the guy". He picked McCoy to be "the guy before the guy". Colt was picked because he was the lowest-risk QB in that draft. Colt's a smart, hard-working player. He makes good decisions, is decently mobile, has above par accuracy, and doesn't have a long arm. In short, he's the perfect guy to have when installing a new system, especially a system that's predicated on short passes and good decisions. He's not going to lose us any games himself. He'll probably win us a couple along the way, but for the most part all he's here to do is manage the game. The entire offense has to learn this system together, and having a long armed gunslinger back there would be counter-productive. Colt's a player-coach; he's going to learn the system and teach it to everyone else. That way, when we do make the move for a franchise QB, everyone will be on the same page.

And then our future franchise QB will have a great mentor.

@cdl15 said:

so that all the colt haters can make excuses for him that are not reasonable for mccoy. The o line is beat up, no running game, the head coach, the president, ect.

theres a myriad of reasons we're struggling.....colt being one of them. hwile you wanna believe the "colt haters" just wanna bash the new QB, you "colt apologists" wanna blame everything under the sun but him. its more complicated than either, but colt is an easy target cause he, in fact, looks pretty bad. the WRs suck, the OL cant block, the FO didn't get him any help, etc......are not excuses for what he does on a play by play basis...they are excuses for the overall failure of the O to move the ball and score consistently.

these are no excuses for his poor arm strength, inability to see the field, read blitzes, call protections, shitty footwork, poor timing, poor accuracy, and bad pocket presence. while many of us recognize he is still young and learning, and some of these things should improve, it in no way negates the merit of the criticism. these are things he did well last year, and that are getting worse with every game in shurmurs system. i happen to think a large majority of the problem is inadequate coaching and not colt just sucking, but none of these deficiencies excuse this pop-warner offense. if he is indeed the QB many of you said he is, he should be able to persevere and do something...anything....

@lodilobo said:

Well....Holmgren picked Mccoy, knowing the system he intended to run. Obviously, that isn't working out. San Francisco has a new coach with his new system. How are they doing? I thought Holmgren was a football genius....certainly more experienced and knowledgeable than Harbaugh.... I don't feel real encouraged, when the genius tells me that the qb he picked might not be the right guy, and we might have to pick a new qb every year until we get it right...WTF?...I could do that...and I wouldn't charge them 10 million a year to do it.

Holmgren didn't pick McCoy to be "the guy". He picked McCoy to be "the guy before the guy". Colt was picked because he was the lowest-risk QB in that draft. Colt's a smart, hard-working player. He makes good decisions, is decently mobile, has above par accuracy, and doesn't have a long arm. In short, he's the perfect guy to have when installing a new system, especially a system that's predicated on short passes and good decisions. He's not going to lose us any games himself. He'll probably win us a couple along the way, but for the most part all he's here to do is manage the game. The entire offense has to learn this system together, and having a long armed gunslinger back there would be counter-productive. Colt's a player-coach; he's going to learn the system and teach it to everyone else. That way, when we do make the move for a franchise QB, everyone will be on the same page.

And then our future franchise QB will have a great mentor.

It doesn't help that this WCO system we're running is also shite. Shurmur's playcalling is bland and unimaginative. It's all slants and 2 yard dives, interspersed with some 2 yard dives and slants. I understand that is what the WCO is built upon, but you have to change things up a little. The most successful coordinators and coaches have their own systems, hybrid bastardizations of different offenses. No successful coaches really just run one system, they make their own system with a blend of many different philosophies.

All Shurmur has done is photocopied a playbook from some random 1970's California state high school playoff team. His uncle was known as an innovator, too bad Pat didn't somehow inherit that gene.

And then there are the front running bandwagon phags out there like girly or whom ever started this topic that will still be like" ohh what are they doing i didn't want Andy phuck and suck they shoulda listened to me." and one day when the browns do win they'll be like c i told ya so god about time they do it my way..

Lets just sit back and watch holmgen screw us up cause we were obviously one game one plyer or one season away from being a real football franchise anyway right?

Good job front office president owner and coach and what ever players are still trying cause 3-4 is not good enough for anyone else.

@lodilobo said:

Well....Holmgren picked Mccoy, knowing the system he intended to run. Obviously, that isn't working out. San Francisco has a new coach with his new system. How are they doing? I thought Holmgren was a football genius....certainly more experienced and knowledgeable than Harbaugh.... I don't feel real encouraged, when the genius tells me that the qb he picked might not be the right guy, and we might have to pick a new qb every year until we get it right...WTF?...I could do that...and I wouldn't charge them 10 million a year to do it.

Your points are very fair. But is unfair to compare ourselves to the 49ers. They may have had subpar coaching but more often than not they had better draft picks. We have more holes to fill.

The McCoy pick was a risky one - but at the position he was drafted we dont really lose much right ? If he pans out then great else - oh well ! Remember he is better than who we had and he certainly has the tools to be a back-up QB once we get a franchise QB. I would not count him as a wasted pick yet. And it is true that Holmgren definitely has a higher bar than Harbaugh. But remember, with Holmgren,his success and failures are well documented and he was the best that we could find - not the best there is ! And his role is to find the right GM + Coach. Atleast we are all confident with Heckert. Dont you think we are better off where we are right now than where we were before ?

@brownindian said:

The new regime wants to install their system and that takes time. They dont care if it plays to the players strengths. Which is fine only if we are ready to stick with the coach and the ideology for 3+ years. Remember it takes time to find the right players and for the players to learn the system and excel in it.

The unknowns are if we have the right coach to lead us.

Well....Holmgren picked Mccoy, knowing the system he intended to run. Obviously, that isn't working out. San Francisco has a new coach with his new system. How are they doing? I thought Holmgren was a football genius....certainly more experienced and knowledgeable than Harbaugh.... I don't feel real encouraged, when the genius tells me that the qb he picked might not be the right guy, and we might have to pick a new qb every year until we get it right...WTF?...I could do that...and I wouldn't charge them 10 million a year to do it.

The unknowns are if we have the right coach to lead us.

@gafreleets said:

yeah ghoulie, while most times i chuckle and silently agree with you i'd have to say that you just can't fudge what colt was showing last year. he did well against my team not once but twice (right? can't remember if he played both games) and while your team didn't win colt definately wasn't the reason and he for sure as shit didn't look lost or incapable. which is sayin ALOT for a 1st yr QB going against the Steeler's 3-4 D.

it's gotta be holmgren. the man is a joke. i've known this ever since watching his inability to get over his SB loss to the Steelers. whether or not you think the refs had too heavy a hand with the flags or not the point is that the man is SUPPOSED to be a adult man with the maturity to get over a situation and move on. i think he's just mentally weak and prone to letting his overinflated ego and sense of self worth get in the way of running a professional football team.

question?...........who dosen't think holmgren in no way blames himself for the browns current situation?

cause trust me, for him............everyone else is to blame for ruining his omnipotent plan for this franchise.

Not only does Holmgren not blame himself.....I'm pretty sure he doesn't really give f*** whether the team wins or loses. It's a win / win situation for him. If somehow the Browns have a winning season in the next few years...which is really like a million to one shot.....he gets the credit. However....if we continue to suck, the media will say things like "Cleveland is really pitiful.....Holmgren is just another genius who wasn't able to turn it around." We were on the right track with Mangini....love him or hate him.....he was getting the most out of his players.

it's gotta be holmgren. the man is a joke. i've known this ever since watching his inability to get over his SB loss to the Steelers. whether or not you think the refs had too heavy a hand with the flags or not the point is that the man is SUPPOSED to be a adult man with the maturity to get over a situation and move on. i think he's just mentally weak and prone to letting his overinflated ego and sense of self worth get in the way of running a professional football team.

question?...........who dosen't think holmgren in no way blames himself for the browns current situation?

cause trust me, for him............everyone else is to blame for ruining his omnipotent plan for this franchise.

it's gotta be holmgren. the man is a joke. i've known this ever since watching his inability to get over his SB loss to the Steelers. whether or not you think the refs had too heavy a hand with the flags or not the point is that the man is SUPPOSED to be a adult man with the maturity to get over a situation and move on. i think he's just mentally weak and prone to letting his overinflated ego and sense of self worth get in the way of running a professional football team.

question?...........who dosen't think holmgren in no way blames himself for the browns current situation?

cause trust me, for him............everyone else is to blame for ruining his omnipotent plan for this franchise.

@represent said:

Already decided Mccoy isn't a WCO offense QB for sure, and i am pretty sure 99% of the people would agree with me that he is not, i feel he is a Shotgun and move to make plays happen QB but we force him into this role that is clearly hurting the team.

So my question is why the hell we don't run Mccoy to his strengths? are we really just deadset on making him run 3-5 step backdrops and getting railed within 3 seconds from th o-line this year? i feel he is getting Couched this year and it's sad

Anyone willing to say xxxx the WCO if it meant Mccoy and the team winning games?

Holmgren / Shurmer are the problems, here. Last year, when Mangini was here, I saw a team that showed energy on the field, and desire to win every game. Is that what anyone sees, now? This management sucks with their WCO crap. What I see, now, is a team with no game plan other than to throw the ball for a 3 yard gain, when you need 6 yards. It appears to me, that the coach doesn't give a crap about winning the game....like a controlloed scrimmage.....completely unconcerned with the the other team.....just going throught the motions, trying to move the ball. Obviously, the offensive strategy never changes, no matter who we are playing. Is that any way to compete against teams with real coaches, who actually study the opponent? GHOOLIE...while I respect your opinons, and have enjoyed your rantings and ravings over the years....I think you're full of crap. The myth that Mccoy took opponents by surprise last season, is stupid. These are professional coaches, in the NFL.....not the kind of crap we have to deal with. Right now, the kid is gun shy, because he gats hammered every time he drops back to pass. He probably has 2 choices of plays with every snap, because the idiot in charge is married to this WCO crap. I hate to make excuses, but I know damn well, that with a decent OL and play calling, Mccoy would be much more effective. The sad reality is that he may never recover from this ridiculous crap. Right now, I think his confidence is gone, and under the current regime, I just don't see him bouncing back. You don't go from one extreme to another in one off season. Last season, he looked poised and confident on the field, and made good decisions. We all know what he looks like, now.