@rich4eagle said:

Browns receivers they all suck HUGE

That assertation was made by those of us who get it more than a years ago, But what we need to do is draft more OL guys to make the suckage awesome suckage

This board has no clue about winning except the correctomundo twosome

that is code for dumbasses and neophytes and legendary losers.......................

Ghoolie and I are the correctomundo twosome as always for 11 years running

Hahaha. Will you ever add constructive opinion to this board? This thread is about WRs and you bring up your bullshit on OL guys and your love for ghoolie. Ever wonder why everyone hates you? Get your head out of your ass and add something of value or leave the board. It's for real Browns fans anyway.

That said, our WRs do suck. MoMass and Norwood should stay and get rid of the rest. We need to find a #1 and #2 WR for next year if that's even possible. And for the record, yes Jones is better than Little. But why compare them? The Browns got 5 draft picks for Jones. We didn't trade the Jones pick for just Little. Stupid comparison..

That assertation was made by those of us who get it more than a years ago, But what we need to do is draft more OL guys to make the suckage awesome suckage

This board has no clue about winning except the correctomundo twosome

that is code for dumbasses and neophytes and legendary losers.......................

Ghoolie and I are the correctomundo twosome as always for 11 years running

@the-gipper said:

Jones was handed that starting position simply because he was the 8th overall pick.....and for all we know the Falcons really had no one else. The Browns had others players. MoMass, Cribbs etc. Little was not handed his job.

The ONLY thing that slightly supports your argument about Jones perhaps being better at this point than Little are these damn ridiculous drops that Little keeps making.

the only thing? really? what about the more yards on less catches? what about starting on a better team?

the ONLY thing that supports little being better is.....ummm.....help me out here im having trouble cuz there isnt anything that points to little being better

@cantonlegend said:

mayock just said greg little leads the team in drops

also loving how people are discrediting julio jones for starting on a team with talent at the wideout position compared to little who was only playing spot duty on a team that has terrible wideouts

Jones was handed that starting position simply because he was the 8th overall pick.....and for all we know the Falcons really had no one else. The Browns had others players. MoMass, Cribbs etc. Little was not handed his job.

The ONLY thing that slightly supports your argument about Jones perhaps being better at this point than Little are these damn ridiculous drops that Little keeps making.

@cantonlegend said:

Gipper I wish you would learn how to separate quotes so I could respond appropriately. You've been on this site for years...figure out how to post so I can reply to Ur dumbass

Doing things to convenience you is not my concern. All you have to do is cut and paste if you want to do that. Why haven't you figured out how to do that?

Here's the article talking about Matt ryans deep balls

He's 3rd worst in the league just ahead of mark Sanchez and John beck

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/11/17/espn-confirms-it-matt-ryan-isnt-the-king-of-the-deep-pass/

So? Are you claiming that Colt McCoy throws the long pass better than Ryan? Maybe Ryan isn't accurate with his long passes, but I still think his arm is plenty strong enough to do so. A lot stronger than, say, Colt's.

also loving how people are discrediting julio jones for starting on a team with talent at the wideout position compared to little who was only playing spot duty on a team that has terrible wideouts

Here's the article talking about Matt ryans deep balls

He's 3rd worst in the league just ahead of mark Sanchez and John beck

http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/2011/11/17/espn-confirms-it-matt-ryan-isnt-the-king-of-the-deep-pass/

@cantonlegend said:

if you really knew anything you'd be quick to acknowledge that Matt ryan is statistically the worst deep passer(passes of 20+ yards) in the league which means only one thing. Julio jones is doing more with his fewer catches

Where on earth did you come up with that? You need to PROVE that stat. I am not even sure it is provable. From everything I have read and heard most people think that Matt Ryan is one of the BEST deep passers in the league.

If you have different information, please share it, rather than making what appears on the face of it to be a wild stupid statement.

jones has only played in 9 games...little has played in all 12

Julio Jones has been the starter in ALL 9 games he has appeared in. Greg Little has only started 8 games even though he made token appearances in others.

More catches with more opportunities but less yards and TDs. That tells me Julio is better

If you actually watched the games and didn't sit there staring at your pecker, you would know that the Browns style of offense is completely different. The ONLY thing you can surmise from those stats is that Jones is catching deeper passes. That's it.

oh yea...the personal attacks tell me that you don't have any friends in real life so you come on the Internet to make urself feel better. You can call me whatever names you want...I used to do that too in middle school

Maybe ppl will listen to you when you grow the fuck up

When people give you information to the effect that 2+2 equals 4....and you disagree and say "no 2+2= 17" what are people supposed to assume about your maturity and your intellect other than to assume that both are stunted?.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I think you're the one missing the point, dicklips. Look at the routes Jones is running and compare them to the routes Little is asked to run. Jones is nearly always running 20 or more yards downfield, mostly on sideline fly passes. Little is asked to run slants, crosses and drags. Of course Jones is going to have more YPR than Little, because he's 30 yards further downfield when he catches it, normally burning the nickel corner.

if you really knew anything you'd be quick to acknowledge that Matt ryan is statistically the worst deep passer(passes of 20+ yards) in the league which means only one thing. Julio jones is doing more with his fewer catches

I didn't put up the Little/Jones stats because they've already been posted numerous times. But if you'd like them, you can have them.

Julio Jones stats

9 games started. 34 receptions. 566 yards. 2 TDs.

Greg Little Stats

8 games started. 50 receptions. 513 yards. 1 TD.

I see nothing that shows Jones is heads and shoulders above Little. Little is simply doing more with less. You really suck at making a valid argument.

More catches with more opportunities but less yards and TDs. That tells me Julio is better

oh yea...the personal attacks tell me that you don't have any friends in real life so you come on the Internet to make urself feel better. You can call me whatever names you want...I used to do that too in middle school

Maybe ppl will listen to you when you grow the fuck up

@cantonlegend said:

you are completely missing the point. jones is targeted far less than little and still manages to put up better numbers. jones is faster and has less drops and more yards and TDs. you can spin it anyway you want but those are the facts

I think you're the one missing the point, dicklips. Look at the routes Jones is running and compare them to the routes Little is asked to run. Jones is nearly always running 20 or more yards downfield, mostly on sideline fly passes. Little is asked to run slants, crosses and drags. Of course Jones is going to have more YPR than Little, because he's 30 yards further downfield when he catches it, normally burning the nickel corner.

roddy white demands attention......nobody, including little, demands any attention on the browns offense. at least people are scared of the falcons passing offense. the browns west coast is a joke

So nobody on the defense is covering anyone, since no one demands attention? You're a fucking idiot. The fact that the Browns have 0 playmakers for the defense to worry about only hurts your shitty argument, cock. Thanks for trying, faggot.

lmao stats dont matter when you're talking about jones vs litte but they do when im talking about edwards vs anybody on the browns. only a browns fan would pick norwood over edwards

I didn't put up the Little/Jones stats because they've already been posted numerous times. But if you'd like them, you can have them.

Julio Jones stats

9 games started. 34 receptions. 566 yards. 2 TDs.

Greg Little Stats

8 games started. 50 receptions. 513 yards. 1 TD.

I see nothing that shows Jones is heads and shoulders above Little. Little is simply doing more with less. You really suck at making a valid argument.

better numbers from a better player on a team that throws the ball less than the browns do

Josh Freeman Stats

11 games. 411 pass attempts. 254 completions.

Colt McCoy stats

12 games. 428 pass attempts. 247 completions.

Tampa Bay throws, on average, 37 times a game. The Browns throw, on average, 35 times a game. And Tampa Bay does it more efficiently. What was your argument again?

Once again, you've proven to be a complete fucking dumbass. Like I said before, thanks for playing.

Some people just know more about D&D than they do about football, it's okay. Go back to your basement, queertits.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Don't be that guy that proved you wrong and made you look like an even bigger asshole than we already know you are?

Who wouldn't want to be that guy?

holy crap i should assume that the browns never make the playoffs....its been almost a decade since their last appearance hasnt it? i just figured 10-6 was good enough to make the playoffs.....apparently playing the 2 weakest divisions in football is too much for them to make the post season

You made my argument for me, this was too easy.

Jones is a #2 guy, on the opposite side of the field as Roddy White. Defenses have to account for not only Roddy White, but Tony Gonzales, Michael Turner and even Harry Douglas. There's a plethora of options available, the defense can't cover everyone. Of course Jones is going to get more yards when they have him run 9's most of the time he's on the field.

Little is a #2 on a team that has no other playmakers. When MoMass doesn't play, Little becomes the #1. Even when MoMass is playing, teams know to key more on Little because he's the only threat there is. Little has nobody to draw the attention away from him, is playing is a much less vertical offense with a much less talented QB, yet still has nearly the same stats as Jones while hugging the bottom of the route tree nearly every play.

It's amusing how little you actually know about football.

you are completely missing the point. jones is targeted far less than little and still manages to put up better numbers. jones is faster and has less drops and more yards and TDs. you can spin it anyway you want but those are the facts

roddy white demands attention......nobody, including little, demands any attention on the browns offense. at least people are scared of the falcons passing offense. the browns west coast is a joke

Braylon Edwards Stats

7 games, 4 starts. 14 receptions. 172 yards. 0 TDs.

Jordan Norwood Stats

12 games (as a STer), 3 starts. 18 receptions. 226 yards. 1 TD.

lmao stats dont matter when you're talking about jones vs litte but they do when im talking about edwards vs anybody on the browns. only a browns fan would pick norwood over edwards

Kellen Winslow Stats

12 games, 12 starts. 56 receptions. 569 yards. 10.2 AVG YPC. 2 TDs. In a one TE system.

Ben Watson Stats

12 games, 10 starts. 35 receptions. 399 yards. 11.4 AVG YPC. 2 TDs. In a 3 TE system.

better numbers from a better player on a team that throws the ball less than the browns do

@cantonlegend said:

Holy shit. Who pissed in Ur cereal this morning? First off, don't be THAT guy that can't see past his own homerism. Only a browns fan, and a delusional one at that, would think little is better than jones.

I have seen them both play. And there is nothing in Jones' game that shows that he is any better than Little. They are a bit different. Little is bigger, Jones may be slightly faster, but he is no better...at least not so far. The ONLY thing he had was a higher draft position.

Despite playin in 3 less games, jones has more yards and more TDs as the #2 WR than Greg little does as the most targeted wideout on the browns team

AH, Little is a rookie and didn't even play in like the first 5 games. If he got on the field it was only as a token. I would venture to say that Jones has probably been in on far more snaps this year than Little. As for the TDs, the Browns ain't got no TDs, the whole damn team. I would venture to say that Littles one TD is a far higher percentage of the team's TDs than Jones's 2.

Oh yea 2007 they went 10-6. My bad I thought they made the playoffs. 2 years later Braylon and Winslow were gone and the browns were rebuilding AGAIN! Edwards and Winslow are 100 times better than anyone the browns have now. You don't think colt McCoy would love to have some talent like them to throw to?

Don't be dumb

I won't. That is your department. To get something wrong such as the Browns making or not making the playoffs is pretty basic stuff.

As for Winslow and Edwards being better.....I don't know. I am not sure that anyone can be "better in Murmur's offense.

@cantonlegend said:

Holy shit. Who pissed in Ur cereal this morning? First off, don't be THAT guy that can't see past his own homerism. Only a browns fan, and a delusional one at that, would think little is better than jones.

Despite playin in 3 less games, jones has more yards and more TDs as the #2 WR than Greg little does as the most targeted wideout on the browns team

Oh yea 2007 they went 10-6. My bad I thought they made the playoffs. 2 years later Braylon and Winslow were gone and the browns were rebuilding AGAIN! Edwards and Winslow are 100 times better than anyone the browns have now. You don't think colt McCoy would love to have some talent like them to throw to?

Don't be dumb

Don't be that guy that proved you wrong and made you look like an even bigger asshole than we already know you are?

Who wouldn't want to be that guy?

You made my argument for me, this was too easy.

Jones is a #2 guy, on the opposite side of the field as Roddy White. Defenses have to account for not only Roddy White, but Tony Gonzales, Michael Turner and even Harry Douglas. There's a plethora of options available, the defense can't cover everyone. Of course Jones is going to get more yards when they have him run 9's most of the time he's on the field.

Little is a #2 on a team that has no other playmakers. When MoMass doesn't play, Little becomes the #1. Even when MoMass is playing, teams know to key more on Little because he's the only threat there is. Little has nobody to draw the attention away from him, is playing is a much less vertical offense with a much less talented QB, yet still has nearly the same stats as Jones while hugging the bottom of the route tree nearly every play.

It's amusing how little you actually know about football.

Braylon Edwards Stats

7 games, 4 starts. 14 receptions. 172 yards. 0 TDs.

Jordan Norwood Stats

12 games (as a STer), 3 starts. 18 receptions. 226 yards. 1 TD.

Kellen Winslow Stats

12 games, 12 starts. 56 receptions. 569 yards. 10.2 AVG YPC. 2 TDs. In a one TE system.

Ben Watson Stats

12 games, 10 starts. 35 receptions. 399 yards. 11.4 AVG YPC. 2 TDs. In a 3 TE system.

100 times better, huh? You're a fucking idiot. Go back to D&D, pussycat.

Despite playin in 3 less games, jones has more yards and more TDs as the #2 WR than Greg little does as the most targeted wideout on the browns team

Oh yea 2007 they went 10-6. My bad I thought they made the playoffs. 2 years later Braylon and Winslow were gone and the browns were rebuilding AGAIN! Edwards and Winslow are 100 times better than anyone the browns have now. You don't think colt McCoy would love to have some talent like them to throw to?

Don't be dumb

@cantonlegend said:

obviously little isnt as good as jones

Nothing is fucking obvious. The only thing that is obvious is that you have been fed a pile of bullshit that tells you Jones is better. He is NOT better. He has not proved anything beyond the fact that he got drafted higher. OBVIOUSLY Alex Smith is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers....after all, he got drafted higher!!

but jones is a number 2 guy behind roddy white(who is considered elite) and little is the best WR on the browns(which isnt saying much)

of course little has a lot of room to grow and hes made some great plays in only a short period of time.....having said that hes also shown why he wasnt a 1st rounder while julio has shown again and again why he was a first rounder

i understand being cautious of first round WRs and rightfully so but braylon and winslow were both pretty talented and helped take the brownies to the playoffs so you cant hate them too much

The Browns never made the playoffs with either K2 or Edwards on this team. So much for your credibility.

blackmon should be available in the top 5 but depending on where the rams pick i cant see him lasting too long. alshon jeffries is a possibility tho and with the browns 2 picks in the first round, i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them jump around......maybe even trading ahead of the rams to pickup blackmon

@louisville-slugger said:

You do realize you dont have to backload contracts right? With some of the older guys it is a good idea to front load their garunteed money just in case they lose a step.

I agree that bringing in low risk, big reward players like Curry and Maybin are quintessential for improving this team. Thats not saying that older FAs arent any good, we just cannot commit long term. Look what New England does, they bring in someone for a year, sees if they fit, if not they cut their losses.

That's assuming the agent will agree, which rarely happens. Agents push for backloaded contracts so the player has more value to the team the longer he's there.

Front loaded contracts are few and far between for the same reason you mentioned, if a player loses a step he can be lopped off with barely any detriment to the team.

In an ideal world, all contracts would be front loaded and incentive laden. Unfortunately that's not the case.

@the-gipper said:

Blackmon will be better than Jones. Right now, as far as I am concerned, Greg Little is as productive as Jones, overall. Jones may have a somewhat better ypc avg., but that is because he doesn't have little dink dick Pat Murmur as his HC. Browns may not get Blackmon because he may be a Top 3 guy.

I think as Browns fans we may be gun shy about first round WRs because of Brayon and K2.

obviously little isnt as good as jones but jones is a number 2 guy behind roddy white(who is considered elite) and little is the best WR on the browns(which isnt saying much)

of course little has a lot of room to grow and hes made some great plays in only a short period of time.....having said that hes also shown why he wasnt a 1st rounder while julio has shown again and again why he was a first rounder

i understand being cautious of first round WRs and rightfully so but braylon and winslow were both pretty talented and helped take the brownies to the playoffs so you cant hate them too much

blackmon should be available in the top 5 but depending on where the rams pick i cant see him lasting too long. alshon jeffries is a possibility tho and with the browns 2 picks in the first round, i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them jump around......maybe even trading ahead of the rams to pickup blackmon

@unsympathetic said:

None of the FA WR's [who are willing to seriously consider Cleveland] were worth even half what they signed for. And don't forget, Jones has been injured for 2/3 of the year - that would have happened in Cleveland even if we had taken him.. and then this thread would be full of comments about how stupid walrus was for drafting an injury risk.

So we're drafting Blackmon/Jeffery/Richardson with our first pick next year, and Kuechly with the second pick. We've got so many needs it may not be worth it to trade with Philly to ensure we can draft one of the top2 WR's.

Who's next? Foster, the WR from TA&M in round 2?

Isn't Kuechly a MLB? Of course, MHO is Jackson is way over rated. DJ makes a lot of tackles 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. We need an OLB to replace Fujita- he's a solid backup, but this is the second season in a row he's finished on IR. Even when healthy, he's too damn slow.

A lot of the mocks have us taking Richardson, but not happening if Hillis resigns with Cleveland (maybe even if Hillis does leave, and Hardesty can stay healthy the rest of the year- Brandon Jackson should be back in 2012) , and one of the 3 WRs you mentioned is still on the board. Depending on how the draft order falls, I could even see us trading up a few spots to take Blackmon.

So we're drafting Blackmon/Jeffery/Richardson with our first pick next year, and Kuechly with the second pick. We've got so many needs it may not be worth it to trade with Philly to ensure we can draft one of the top2 WR's.

Who's next? Foster, the WR from TA&M in round 2?

I agree that bringing in low risk, big reward players like Curry and Maybin are quintessential for improving this team. Thats not saying that older FAs arent any good, we just cannot commit long term. Look what New England does, they bring in someone for a year, sees if they fit, if not they cut their losses.

No FA's have shown to be absolute game changers for their teams, so in hindsight not signing was the right move. It's not like this was a blockbuster year for FA's.

You don't build a foundation with older FA's, they'll just be gone or want way too much money by the time the team has turned the corner, if it even does turn the corner.

With that in mind, I would have loved to see us take a shot on Aaron Maybin or Aaron Curry. Those are young guys drafted very high that just haven't had the success their respective teams envisioned them having. They came cheap, and would have been excellent project players. Curry is averaging about 5 tackles a game, same as Fujita, is seven years younger than Fujita, and could have been had for a seventh round pick. Plus it would have restored a tiny bit of faith in organization from the "WE NEED FA!" group.

Aaron Maybin is playing as a third down pass rushing DE and has 6 sacks. That's 4 times as many sacks as Ray Edwards. That's 4.5 more sacks that Jayme Mitchell. 5.5 sacks more than Marcus Benard. He was the rare FA that has no leverage, recording 0 sacks or starts in his career, but still tons of potential. He got a 1 yr/$545k contract, and has already proven his worth. After adding about 30 pounds, he has proven to be quite an effective pass rusher.

Sadly, he chose to go the Jets so he could face the Bills twice a year.

Those are the kind of FA's we need to add. Guys with plenty of upside and are still young enough to play for a couple 5 year contracts. None of these 2 year "collect a paycheck and get out" guys.