@king-ghoolie-lives said:

As long as Browns fans believe that there are silver linings in losses, the losses will continue.

Regurgitate your bullshit about the Browns amassing talent all you want but the Browns are not improving, nobody is giving them any respect and they have regressed from teh 2010 season.

At that, no debate can be entered into and against.

I'll disagree- the Browns actually have more talent on the field than in 2010, the difference is a buffoon head coach that doesn't know how to utilize it. Shurmur makes Eric Mangini look like a forking genius, Crennell too for that matter. Mangini figured out a way for his undermanned team to beat the Saints and Patriots, Crennell took a pile of s##t KC team and took down the undefeated Packers.

Shurmur figured out a way to get beat by the suckfull Rams, and mediocre Cardinals. If you can't beat inferior talent, how in the hell are you going to beat superior talent? Pray for Divine intervention?

@clevelandmilidh said:

You tell me 4 or 5 situations were his decision cost us a win and I'll elaborate on why I don't bye it. I can't think of any

Remember the Rams fans coming over here thanking us for taking Patty off of their hands?

I can think of burning all our timeouts in the Ravens game because he couldn't get the correct play in fast enough, MR. HC\OC genius.

How about running Hillis twice in the last 1:30 of the Cardinals game with two timeouts? Give up play for overtime.

Seriously, if Shurmur is back next year and doesn't show 500% improvement, I'm gonna puke.

@miktoxic said:

FXCK A REBUILD YEAR. HOW MANY YEARS ARE WE WORKING ON A REBUILD YEAR??? DOPE. THE BROWNS WILL BE REBUILDING WHEN THEY BREAK OUT THE FORD FLYING CAR.

YOU. HOLMGREN AND SHURMER NEED TO HIT THE BRICKS!

This is our 3rd rebuild from GM down to coach since the Browns came back in 1999. The difference is we are actually drafting well in the early rounds. You will see more wins over the next 2-3 years. It sucks now, but it can only get better..

YOU. HOLMGREN AND SHURMER NEED TO HIT THE BRICKS!

you've got to explain how you see otherwise.

I'm very curious to hear your perspective.

mikeyP72 said:

Shurmur's coaching mistakes and inexperience have led to at least 4 losses, possibly a 5th. But that one (week 1 against the Bengals, quick snap lob to AJ Green) could be pinned on Jauron -- I GUESS.

I really hope you don't actually believe that.

set the bar high, players will rise to it.

we simply aren't doing that.

I would argue that we STILL aren't moving the ball all that well.

And a lot of "the best teams in the NFL" are either already beating us by 10+ points, or don't need to win the game b/c they're already in the playoffs.

@dj_illness said:

this is the same BS we were all saying looking at our cupcake schedule at the beginning of this season.

put the kool aid down.

there have been SOME strides. Not huge by any means (i consider HUGE strides to be something like, hell... winning games, maybe?)

we started week 1 with a WINNABLE game that was mis-managed and uncoached away.

THAT trend has continued throughout the entire season.

excuse us realists for not being satisfied or entertained.

Go watch a couple of our early games, we struggled to get first downs against weak teams. Now we move the ball with ease against the toughest teams in the league.

Just because Shurmur calls a play that you don't like does not mean that he mismanaged the game. What HAS cost us games is the long snapper, and the game when the defense was caught sleeping.

I'm not the one who's expecting mistake free football from the youngest team in football with a first year head coach and no off season...who's the realist?

put the kool aid down.

there have been SOME strides. Not huge by any means (i consider HUGE strides to be something like, hell... winning games, maybe?)

we started week 1 with a WINNABLE game that was mis-managed and uncoached away.

THAT trend has continued throughout the entire season.

excuse us realists for not being satisfied or entertained.

mikeyP72 said:

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

Shurmur is a rookie head coach and has made countless mistakes as the HC and the OC. He has lost more than a couple of these games himself this season.

Explain to me how Shurmur is brilliant.

I'll go get the popcorn.

Why??? Because 3 weeks ago at Cleveland Browns Stadium we lost bye 14 to the mighty Ravens. This week, in Baltimore, with nothing to play for, we lose by 6 and should have won. Baltimore was playing for homefield advantage throughout, and the only thing anybody can take out of that game is Shurmurs an idiot for the dabacle at halftime??? When it wasn't even his fault??? Thats a disgrace that only ESPN would be proud to air.

This is your team, they've made huge strides since week 1, HUGE, take pride in it. Everybody's frustrated, there's been mistakes along the way, alot of stuff blown out of perportion. Now it's the end of the year, and were playing our best football against strong division rivals, that says alot. So im gonna embrace it, let them add some pieces that can make these close games swing in our favor. I like our chance's within the division next year, with another draft, FA's and offseason. Were in the games this year, next year we can win'em.

And I'm sure his comeback will be along the lines of "fuque you aspholei ypu puszie" and he will no doubt say I have provided no substantial football content when, in reality, this post, while actually containing no football content at all, contains more substantial football content than most of the shite he farts out on this board.

@xanthros said:

Unfortunately the whole point is this is a REBUILD...a real one, from the ground up...new offense, defense, special teams, coach, gm, president...do you really expect it to be so fast????

No, but I think we did have a right to expect basic competence in the fundamentals of the game. We clearly are not seeing that. It is one thing to get out-talented and beat. It is quite another to get so clearly outcoached and outmaneuvered. In my opinion this team has lost at least 5 games to pure coaching incompetence. Bot Cincy games, Raiders, Rams, Cards, perhaps even yesterday's game, perhaps even the Steeler game....and I suggest there are more.

It never ceases to amaze me that it's so hard for people to understand that they are trying to put something together that is completely different then what this "expansion" team has put on the field...period...

As much as it hurts to watch, this is a learning experience that only Heckert himself is exempt from as he has been in his same position for many years. I still believe the end result will be worth what we have endured, but I am of the opinion that everyone is rash in their opinions so early in this...

Early? I have been waiting since January 3, 1966, the day after the Browns appeared in their last Championship game.

....When is it going to start to get late?

@hoorta said:

I'd just give it up. You're never going to convince Rich and Ghoolie that you're right and they're wrong. BTW, you're correct. They think having Julio Jones running fly patterns all game is going to negate the fact Tony Pashos sucks, and Lavauo isn't far behind in the suckdom category .

Playmakers are nice, but Jones Drew is leading the league in rushing for the 4 win Jaguars. In fact, 5 of the top 10 rushers in the league are going to be at home watching the playoffs on TV. It's a little better in the WR category, but 3 of the top ten will be home after the holidays.

The guy Rich has been whining about all year that we should have drafted- Julio Jones is a big 38th in receiving yards, behind a couple of guys I've never heard of- and that's with Pro Bowler Roddy White and future HOFer Tony Gonzalez to take the pressure off of him. FWIW, Greg Little is a big 46 yards behind the super stud.

Great post with great facts.

mikeyP72 said:

You do know the whole picture, it's right their infront of your eyes.

Shurmur can't A.) Call the right plays, B.) Manage the clock or C.) Get the right personnel on the field.

He seems like a good guy. Hopefully in 5-10 years he will start figuring things out. Smile while you wait.

Unfortunately the whole point is this is a REBUILD...a real one, from the ground up...new offense, defense, special teams, coach, gm, president...do you really expect it to be so fast????

It never ceases to amaze me that it's so hard for people to understand that they are trying to put something together that is completely different then what this "expansion" team has put on the field...period...

As much as it hurts to watch, this is a learning experience that only Heckert himself is exempt from as he has been in his same position for many years. I still believe the end result will be worth what we have endured, but I am of the opinion that everyone is rash in their opinions so early in this...

@rich4eagle said:

Yesterday, I witnessed the debacle mostly with sound. Albeit sound from the talking heads can be a detraction for the most part from what really is happening. I have read so many lame posts and so many irrelevant descriptions of where we are and what we are! This post is fresh and never considered anyone else's assessment of yesterday or the season

First off, again we have NO playmakers

Second, Hillis got a 100 yards, wohoo most of those yards occurred when we were getting our asses kicked and Baltimore was working to close out the game. Most teams give up the run when losing 20-0 but we featured it DUH?

First off, this is absolutely false. I don't know if you are lying on purpose rich or if you just are seeing the game the way you want to see it and you are letting your delusions get in the way of the fact. Hillis got almost 50 yard rushing on the very first drive of the game when the score was 0-0.

Third, just before the half, we had 26 seconds to score from the five yard line with no time outs....................and what happened we ran the ball and never got off another play...............coaching players situational awareness be damnded we just pissed away at least three and chance for 7 with MENTAL IDIOCY......no ability to do a quck spike.................and NO play ...........NO EXCUSE IS ACCEPTABLE

So Baltimore goes comatose and prevent defense and on cruise and Cribbs regains his old magic and runs one back and pumps up the team

We on a rush actually score a TD to give us a chance while Baltimore reels

Then we go to end game

Throw a three yard pass when we need 12 gain three yards...............UGH

Punt, stop Balitmore on our somewhere around 40

Forth and two.........we have NO timeouts.............NO WAY BMORE IS DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PUNT

The Browns have played a sprited end game and now it is crunch time after the abysmal play calling or lact of a skill player talented enough to make a play and forced us to throw three yards on third and twelve and punt

They punt, they stop Bmore after a first down or two to FORTH AND TWO at like I said about the FORTY

NO WAY BMORE IS GOING FOR IT SINCE THE BROWNS HAVE NO TIMEOUTS......................so they do the samo ole song and dance which fails 236% of the time to get the defense to jump offside

Well, the Browns GREAT GAME CHANGER NUMBER ONE PICK TAYLOR TRASH.....you know the guys who makes the plays to win games

Jumps offside and boom game over

Why did we draft another fat slob with the one pick, why did we hire Shurmer who cannot get two plays off in 26 seconds, why did we put Heckert in charge of players when we have no skill players and he added none, and we did we make Holmgren, President and Chief of Everything and Retired on the job making all the decisions

Three more BLUNDERS

sorry fellow Browns fans we got shit and are going nowhere until all three of these guys are gone

I would have gotten three plays off at the end of the first half, I would never have drafted Taylor, but Julio Jones, and I would fire Heckert and Shurmer tonight for incompetence.

OK, Taylor was a big dumb fat asshole with that play, but overall I still think he is a good player. And 10 times out of 10 I would rather have Taylor and Greg Little over Julio Jones. If you said AJ Green, would agree with you, but Little is as good as Jones all by himself.

@rich4eagle said:

Yesterday, I witnessed the debacle mostly with sound. Albeit sound from the talking heads can be a detraction for the most part from what really is happening. I have read so many lame posts and so many irrelevant descriptions of where we are and what we are! This post is fresh and never considered anyone else's assessment of yesterday or the season

First off, again we have NO playmakers

Second, Hillis got a 100 yards, wohoo most of those yards occurred when we were getting our asses kicked and Baltimore was working to close out the game. Most teams give up the run when losing 20-0 but we featured it DUH?

Third, just before the half, we had 26 seconds to score from the five yard line with no time outs....................and what happened we ran the ball and never got off another play...............coaching players situational awareness be damnded we just pissed away at least three and chance for 7 with MENTAL IDIOCY......no ability to do a quck spike.................and NO play ...........NO EXCUSE IS ACCEPTABLE

So Baltimore goes comatose and prevent defense and on cruise and Cribbs regains his old magic and runs one back and pumps up the team

We on a rush actually score a TD to give us a chance while Baltimore reels

Then we go to end game

Throw a three yard pass when we need 12 gain three yards...............UGH

Punt, stop Balitmore on our somewhere around 40

Forth and two.........we have NO timeouts.............NO WAY BMORE IS DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN PUNT

The Browns have played a sprited end game and now it is crunch time after the abysmal play calling or lact of a skill player talented enough to make a play and forced us to throw three yards on third and twelve and punt

They punt, they stop Bmore after a first down or two to FORTH AND TWO at like I said about the FORTY

NO WAY BMORE IS GOING FOR IT SINCE THE BROWNS HAVE NO TIMEOUTS......................so they do the samo ole song and dance which fails 236% of the time to get the defense to jump offside

Well, the Browns GREAT GAME CHANGER NUMBER ONE PICK TAYLOR TRASH.....you know the guys who makes the plays to win games

Jumps offside and boom game over

Why did we draft another fat slob with the one pick, why did we hire Shurmer who cannot get two plays off in 26 seconds, why did we put Heckert in charge of players when we have no skill players and he added none, and we did we make Holmgren, President and Chief of Everything and Retired on the job making all the decisions

Three more BLUNDERS

sorry fellow Browns fans we got shit and are going nowhere until all three of these guys are gone

would have gotten three plays off at the end of the first half, I would never have drafted Taylor, but Julio Jones, and I would fire Heckert and Shurmer tonight for incompetence

You're an idiot. The o-line and ONLY the o-line wins championships. Dummy.

mikeyP72 said:

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

Shurmur is a rookie head coach and has made countless mistakes as the HC and the OC. He has lost more than a couple of these games himself this season.

Explain to me how Shurmur is brilliant.

I'll go get the popcorn.

Shurmur is brilliant because he got the HC gig of the Cleveland Browns making bank and you...well you didn't!!! Neither are you GM or even President. No matter how hard everyone bitches on this board, end result is it's all just gums flappin in the wind. Holmgren was hired to do a job and until he either succeeds or RL decides to punk out and listen to the fan base (which I personally think won't happen for at least two more years) we have what we have. My own thoughts are that I hate what Shurmur has done but I don't know the whole picture so just like every other fan, i'm just along for the ride...

Don't like it???

Go root for the Patriots, they're America's bandwagon team and waiting for schleps like you, Ghoolie, and Rich...

mikeyP72 said:

Wow, kool-aid.

How brilliant was the clock management before halftime?

My high school football coach could do a better job than Shurmur.

For somebody who wants to be a sports writer, it would be wise to listen to player interviews before you go writing acticles of assumption.

@dawginit said:

I'm sick of all the morons that truly believe that the offensive line is not important. You know absolutely nothing about football if you say that. I would assume also that you believe if the linemen just stood there after the snap that a team filled with the best playmakers in the NFL could do anything whatsoever. Does anyone remember how a hobbled Big Ben had plenty of time to stand around and still beat us. It's because his line gave him time to do whatever the hell he wanted. He had time to masturbate and spew his goodies all over our defense before every throw, and he pretty much did. No line, no offense. If the Browns fix their offensive line in the offseason and add NO playmakers, they would go from bottom of the league to middle of the league, by possibly adding just ONE tackle.

I'd just give it up. You're never going to convince Rich and Ghoolie that you're right and they're wrong. BTW, you're correct. They think having Julio Jones running fly patterns all game is going to negate the fact Tony Pashos sucks, and Lavauo isn't far behind in the suckdom category .

Playmakers are nice, but Jones Drew is leading the league in rushing for the 4 win Jaguars. In fact, 5 of the top 10 rushers in the league are going to be at home watching the playoffs on TV. It's a little better in the WR category, but 3 of the top ten will be home after the holidays.

The guy Rich has been whining about all year that we should have drafted- Julio Jones is a big 38th in receiving yards, behind a couple of guys I've never heard of- and that's with Pro Bowler Roddy White and future HOFer Tony Gonzalez to take the pressure off of him. FWIW, Greg Little is a big 46 yards behind the super stud.

@rich4eagle said:

I did not say a word about racking yards when the game was over..................I said Hillis was getting yards while we were getting our ass kicked and you verifited it.....................we were down 20 zip at half time.................thanks for verifying what I said, while Bmore conceded some run yards and we piled up zero points Hillis got 70 yards, yep he did well until we got to past midfield

YOU weren't listening Rich (or watching the game). So let me fill you in. Hillis looked like the Hillis of 2010. On that first drive he was getting through holes and taking 3- 4 Ratbird defenders along for the ride. He averaged 5.0 yards per touch on that first drive when the score was 0-0. & FYI- against the #2 rush defense in the NFL. Peyton Hillis was NOT the reason the Browns lost.

You're a little slow getting on the "fire Shurmur" bus- that Bandwagon already rolled out of town a couple of weeks ago- I saw all I needed to see after Un-Shurmur blew the Arizona game.

@rich4eagle said:

fuque you assholue

Yup. You just answered my question. have another.....