@usfbrown said:

FYI...

Colt's just cleaned house. They fired both Polians. As the article mentions, Polian had a hard on for Luck (just like everyone else seems to) and this move makes thing more interesting.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/02/colts-clean-house-polians-are-out/

I also have heard rumors that two of their starting O-line are considering retiring, Saturday and Diehm, if that happens then they will need all the extra picks they can get. Not saying they will trade Luck but they could reload with Manning and grab a QB in the later rounds they could develop instead of grabbing Luck. We have the most draft ammo of the QB needy teams, that doesn't mean we will be able to get him.

- Luck's ceiling is high, but visible. You know what you're getting with him, and what he will be.

- RG3's ceiling is a bit hazy. Not invisible, but not as obvious as Luck's. RG3 could turn out to be an average QB, never truly adjusting to the complexity of the NFL. On the flipside, RG3's ceiling could be sky high, well beyond Luck's ability to completely take over a game on his own, (see "Luck, Stanford vs. Oklahoma St.)

Luck's ceiling is really high, but visible. RG3's ceiling a bit more undetermined, but could very well be beyond Luck's.

Personally, I would rather trade our two 1st rounders and our 1st round next year, for Luck. If that's not good enough??? Fuck Indianapolis. Sit tight, and hope RG3 falls to us. If RG3 doesn't, trade down a little, and take WR Michael Floyd, out of Notre Dame.

@poeticg said:

No, you don't give away Haden. You've gotta keep your playmakers and studs. They CAN have Sheldon Brown however...

I would HONESTLY give up:

1) This years #4 Pick in exchange for the #1 Pick.

2) This years Pick in the second round.

3) This years Pick in the third round.

4) Next years #2 Pick.

5) Next years 3rd round Pick.

6) Next years 4th round Pick.

What's the points that that comes out to? Is it enough? '

If we trade the Colts the above then trade our first rounder this year(our late one from ATL and next years first rounder) to a team in the Top 10, turn around and sign Blackmon or Richardson- giving Luck a fresh weapon, we may be off to a good start. Thoughts? Can anyone think of any scenarios(feasible ones) that land us both Luck and Blackmon(or Richardson) this 2012 Draft?

As far as I'm concerned the pick from ATL this year is our to do with what we want. It wouldn't be needed to trade up for Luck. If it was needed then I'd do it but if we can keep it and get Kendall Wright or an equal weapon this year it would speak volumes about the direction that Holmgren and Heckert want to take this football team. We would instantly become credible both as a FO and as an Organization. WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!?!

If you want Luck, our first and the first round Atlanta pick is mandatory, plus another first round pick in 2012. Luck will not be let go for for garbage picks- like fourth rounders. Six for one? Get real.

RG III and Richardson is possible. Luck and Blackmon? Put down the crack pipe.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

So we'll have a Peyton Manning, a couple Adrian Petersons and a couple Calvin Johnsons?

What are we gonna be, a Pro Bowl team? Don't hold your breath, none of that will happen. Luck's not coming to Cleveland and we'll be lucky to nab a receiver half as good as Megatron.

I hope you are wrong. I'm so tired of the QB controversy in Cleveland. Does Anderson read a Defense appropriately, does he throw a catchable ball? Can Brady Quinn even throw a football or does he just look good holding one? Is Colt McCoy the guy, does he need playmakers around him? Can he succeed as a starting NFL QB? Well, I'm done with all of that, make the deal and get the real deal in there at QB for once. I'm tired of second guessing ourselves, get the sure thing and start to build a winner in Cleveland. I don't want to have to wait until my kids are grown and I'm old to finally win a Championship and 10 years down the road see Luck going to his 8th Probowl and be wishing we would have had the balls to go up and get our guy... GET IT DONE!

.... gets us Andrew Luck.

Luck's value dropped a tad, (not a lot,) but a little, tonight.

Both our 1st's this year and our 1st next year, I believe, gets us Luck.

@poeticg said:

No, you don't give away Haden. You've gotta keep your playmakers and studs. They CAN have Sheldon Brown however...

I would HONESTLY give up:

1) This years #4 Pick in exchange for the #1 Pick.

2) This years Pick in the second round.

3) This years Pick in the third round.

4) Next years #2 Pick.

5) Next years 3rd round Pick.

6) Next years 4th round Pick.

What's the points that that comes out to? Is it enough? '

If we trade the Colts the above then trade our first rounder this year(our late one from ATL and next years first rounder) to a team in the Top 10, turn around and sign Blackmon or Richardson- giving Luck a fresh weapon, we may be off to a good start. Thoughts? Can anyone think of any scenarios(feasible ones) that land us both Luck and Blackmon(or Richardson) this 2012 Draft?

As far as I'm concerned the pick from ATL this year is our to do with what we want. It wouldn't be needed to trade up for Luck. If it was needed then I'd do it but if we can keep it and get Kendall Wright or an equal weapon this year it would speak volumes about the direction that Holmgren and Heckert want to take this football team. We would instantly become credible both as a FO and as an Organization. WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!?!

Equal value would be us trading away Both first round picks and either next years 2nd round pick or this years 3rd-5th or 6th. More than likely we would have to give then this years 1st rounders, 2nd rounder, and a 5th or later since the value will be inflated cause of Luck.

@poeticg said:

Couch got a raw deal, it would be a reach for any top QB in the league today to succeed with the team around Tim Couch. Who was Couch's best receiver, Kevin Johnson? Granted I loved KJ but how good was he really? Would he even be a Blackmon in this years draft? Or was he more of a Momass? The point is we've had 2 first round QB's since the return. Couch's team wasn't ready and in Brady Quinns tenure Quinn wasn't ready. It appears that if we can field a decent OL next year and find a way to get a WR that can stretch the Defense, Luck could find himself on a team in the right place at the right time. Both the team around him(Thomas, ES, Mack, Hillis, Watson, Moore, Little) and the player seem ready to take the next step. It's fitting that they take the leap together.

If Luck struggles in his first year, that's fine. But we'll know that we have the best opportunity to build the team around him for years to come. Then we'll only be out a single pick next draft. Then after that it's GOLD. Luck will be ours and we won't need a QB for a long, long time. If Luck goes down, in pops The Sheriff Colt McCoy- the best a brightest backup QB in the league! Then we can place the playmakers around on offense with Adrian Peterson type runners and Calvin Johnson type receivers!

Ya know, I know that it hurts to give up draft picks, I feel the same way... Just think of it as getting Luck on a rent-to-own. After next year he ours and we'll have a TRUE FRANCHISE QB!!!!!! <------- "!!!!!!"

So we'll have a Peyton Manning, a couple Adrian Petersons and a couple Calvin Johnsons?

What are we gonna be, a Pro Bowl team? Don't hold your breath, none of that will happen. Luck's not coming to Cleveland and we'll be lucky to nab a receiver half as good as Megatron.

I would HONESTLY give up:

1) This years #4 Pick in exchange for the #1 Pick.

2) This years Pick in the second round.

3) This years Pick in the third round.

4) Next years #2 Pick.

5) Next years 3rd round Pick.

6) Next years 4th round Pick.

What's the points that that comes out to? Is it enough? '

If we trade the Colts the above then trade our first rounder this year(our late one from ATL and next years first rounder) to a team in the Top 10, turn around and sign Blackmon or Richardson- giving Luck a fresh weapon, we may be off to a good start. Thoughts? Can anyone think of any scenarios(feasible ones) that land us both Luck and Blackmon(or Richardson) this 2012 Draft?

As far as I'm concerned the pick from ATL this year is our to do with what we want. It wouldn't be needed to trade up for Luck. If it was needed then I'd do it but if we can keep it and get Kendall Wright or an equal weapon this year it would speak volumes about the direction that Holmgren and Heckert want to take this football team. We would instantly become credible both as a FO and as an Organization. WHO LET THE DAWGS OUT!?!

If Luck struggles in his first year, that's fine. But we'll know that we have the best opportunity to build the team around him for years to come. Then we'll only be out a single pick next draft. Then after that it's GOLD. Luck will be ours and we won't need a QB for a long, long time. If Luck goes down, in pops The Sheriff Colt McCoy- the best a brightest backup QB in the league! Then we can place the playmakers around on offense with Adrian Peterson type runners and Calvin Johnson type receivers!

Ya know, I know that it hurts to give up draft picks, I feel the same way... Just think of it as getting Luck on a rent-to-own. After next year he ours and we'll have a TRUE FRANCHISE QB!!!!!! <------- "!!!!!!"

@poeticg said:

Well, I say the Colts "DO" pass on Luck.

I agree, but they will trade the pick and get a king's ransom for it. Don't the browns have 2 1st's? That, plus a 3rd and 4th rounder, a 2nd and 4th rounder next year, and Haden. Deal?

@hempman said:

Wrong on all accounts. His brain had alot to do with his inability to get rid of the ball fast and accurate enough in a timely fashion. Maybe if he had better football smarts, he never breaks his leg.

So a shitty O-Line didn't let me take him down all season. A slow release and inaccurate throw from fucked up shoulders had nothing to do with it. Interesting. He wouldn't have been great but he wouldn't have been as bad as he was if he had been able to stay healthy and cause of the O-Line he was constantly and consistently broken and injured.

@harry-buffalo said:

He wouldn't have taken them to the Super Bowl because he broke his leg during the final game of the season and never played in the playoffs. His brain had nothing to do with him getting his leg broken do to playing behind an extremely shitty O-Line.

Wrong on all accounts. His brain had alot to do with his inability to get rid of the ball fast and accurate enough in a timely fashion. Maybe if he had better football smarts, he never breaks his leg.

@hempman said:

It was more than a poor OL. Couch wasn't bright enough. If the dude has brains, we may have went super bowling in the 2002 season with a weak AFC. Guy was at his best late in the game when everything became easy for him.

Luck would succeed in Cleveland because his skills fit the WCO perfectly. Luck ain't a "slinger" though. If you throw him in a vertical game, he would have some struggles. I suspect the Browns will pry into the first pick and find it far to expensive though, but you can never say for sure.

He wouldn't have taken them to the Super Bowl because he broke his leg during the final game of the season and never played in the playoffs. His brain had nothing to do with him getting his leg broken do to playing behind an extremely shitty O-Line.

@harry-buffalo said:

Yes. The only QB who might have been a failure do to being in Cleveland was Couch and it was because of a very poor O-Line that made ours this year look all pro. Cause of that he suffered many injuries that altered his ability. Everyone else either just didn't have the ability or the mental capacity to be a starter and it had nothing to do with Cleveland. If we draft a QB and he doesn't pan out it's not going to be because of Cleveland it's going to be because he just wasn't good.

It was more than a poor OL. Couch wasn't bright enough. If the dude has brains, we may have went super bowling in the 2002 season with a weak AFC. Guy was at his best late in the game when everything became easy for him.

Luck would succeed in Cleveland because his skills fit the WCO perfectly. Luck ain't a "slinger" though. If you throw him in a vertical game, he would have some struggles. I suspect the Browns will pry into the first pick and find it far to expensive though, but you can never say for sure.

@poeticg said:

Would/could Luck succeed in Cleveland?

Yes. The only QB who might have been a failure do to being in Cleveland was Couch and it was because of a very poor O-Line that made ours this year look all pro. Cause of that he suffered many injuries that altered his ability. Everyone else either just didn't have the ability or the mental capacity to be a starter and it had nothing to do with Cleveland. If we draft a QB and he doesn't pan out it's not going to be because of Cleveland it's going to be because he just wasn't good.

@harry-buffalo said:

Regardless kind of cool that the owner son and the coaches son get to have Cleveland High School QB battles with each other.

Agreed. Kind of shitty that neither dad could make it. Shurmur probably had a legit work excuse but little lord fauntleroy randy lerner could probably have flown in from Europe on his private jet for a couple hours to pretend he loves his kid. I hope he's a better dad than a football owner.

Colt's just cleaned house. They fired both Polians. As the article mentions, Polian had a hard on for Luck (just like everyone else seems to) and this move makes thing more interesting.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/02/colts-clean-house-polians-are-out/

@1-more-season said:

I think Freshman only football part of what makes Ohio HS football what it is. Not all states have that you go right from 8th to sitting on the bench for JV unless your a stud.

Florida has it as well...It goes Freshman,JV then Varsity

@the-gipper said:

By the way, did anyone see this from NFL.com:

Head coach Pat Shurmur and owner Randy Lerner are working together to turn around a struggling Browns franchise.

But for a few hours Thursday, Shurmur and Lerner went head-to-head on the football field. Well, at least their 14-year-old children did.

The sons of Shurmur and Lerner are the starting quarterbacks for storied high school rivals in west side of Cleveland. Kyle Shurmur threw three touchdown passes to guide his St. Edward freshman football team past Max Lerner and St. Ignatius 37-0, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

Neither father was in attendance, the Plain Dealer reported. Kyle Shurmur and Max Lerner became good friends this year after hanging out at Browns practices.

"I'm close with Max," Kyle Shurmur told the newspaper. "I hope he does really well in everything. I hope he does really well every night -- except this one night

What? Randy lets his son play football? I thought Randy hated football and really only loved soccer that's why the Browns are bad.