jparsh said:

I can say two things with nearly 100% certainty. 1) Colt won't be traded 2) if we did trade Colt we wouldn't get anything more than a 4th round pick for him and that's pushing it.

Pure numbers can't be used, variables need to be taken into account. And the fact that you have two big 12 QB's has nothing to do with it like one person pointed out. Texas was loaded with talent top to bottom. McCoy was working with an elite group of college players and looked good. RG3 had to turn a very subpar Baylor team into contenders with teams that had hands down more talent then they did.

You then have to look at NFL caliber throws, McCoy never made those throws while Griffin did. Size: that goes to RG3 as well, granted not by much but he's still bigger. Not to mention that McCoy is a solid runner but he's not near the athlete Robert Griffin is.

Bottom line, there's no comparison between Colt and Robert.

If the Browns take RGIII, they need to trade Colt. If they don't, I guarantee you that there will be a QB controversy in CLE... and they tear apart teams as well as fan bases. Wallace is an adequate back up and virtually identical in style to RG. That alone would simplify game planning, practices, etc.

Stats are meaningful. In Colt's career stats you can see that '08 was his best year, but in '09, after much of that "elite talent" had left, his production drop off was not that great.

Passing Rushing

Season Team GP Rating Att Comp Pct Yds TD INT Att Yds TD

2006 Texas 13 161.8 318 217 68.2 2,570 29 7 68 170 2

2007 Texas 13 139.2 424 276 65.1 3,303 22 18 114 510 4

2008 Texas 13 173.75 433 332 76.7 3,859 34 8 136 561 11

2009 Texas 14 147.41 470 332 70.6 3,521 27 12 129 348 3

. . Totals 53 158.25 1,645 1,157 70.3 13,253 112 45 447 1,589 20

As for Colt's elite Texas teammates... most of them played defense. The offensive studs were gone by his senior year. If I missed some, please point out who.

Yr Rnd Pick

2011 2 34 Aaron Williams DB Buffalo Bills

2011 3 95 Curtis Brown DB Pittsburgh Steelers

2011 4 103 Sam Acho LB Arizona Cardinals

2011 5 164 Chykie Brown DB Baltimore Ravens

2010 1 14 Earl Thomas FS Seattle Seahawks

2010 2 43 Sergio Kindle LB Baltimore Ravens

2010 2 44 Lamarr Houston DE Oakland Raiders

2010 3 84 Jordan Shipley WR Cincinnati Bengals --- IR

2010 3 85 Colt McCoy QB Cleveland Browns

2010 4 131 Roddrick Muckelroy LB Cincinnati Bengals

2009 1 13 Brian Orakpo DE Washington Redskins

2009 3 81 Roy Miller DT Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2009 4 105 Henry Melton DE Chicago Bears

2009 7 211 Chris Ogbonnaya RB St. Louis Rams --- 3 team in 3 years

2008 2 53 Limas Sweed WR Pittsburgh Steelers --- Out of League

2008 3 73 Jamaal Charles RB Kansas City Chiefs --- KC Starter

2008 3 91 Jermichael Finley TE Green Bay Packers --- GB starter

2008 4 130 Tony Hills T Pittsburgh Steelers --- 2 starts; now a DNV back-up

2008 5 151 Frank Okam DT Houston Texans

2007 1 19 Michael Griffin FS Tennessee Titans

2007 1 20 Aaron Ross CB New York Giants

2007 2 39 Justin Blalock G Atlanta Falcons --- 5-yr starter

2007 2 56 Tim Crowder DE Denver Broncos

2007 4 102 Brian Robison DE Minnesota Vikings

2007 5 147 Tarell Brown CB San Francisco 49ers

2007 6 183 Kasey Studdard G Houston Texans --- Out of league

For contrast let's look at all the schmucks RG with whom RG was stuck. Hmmmm... It would seem he played or is coming out with a number of draft-worthy offensive mates. Interesting...

Baylor

2012 15 Kendall Wright WR 3 Baylor Sr 5-10 190 1 4.42

2012 3 *Robert Griffin III QB 2 Baylor rJr 6-2 220 1 4.52

2012 164 Terrance Ganaway RB 16 Baylor rSr 5-11 240 5 4.62

2012 178 Nicolas Jean-Baptiste DT 17 Baylor rSr 6-2 335 5 5.06

2012 171 Philip Blake C 6 Baylor Sr 6-2 320 5 5.26

2012 501 Robert T. Griffin OG 30 Baylor Sr 6-6 330 5.38

2011 1 21 Phillip Taylor DT Cleveland Browns

2011 1 23 Danny Watkins G Philadelphia Eagles

2011 7 216 Mikail Baker DB St. Louis Rams

2011 7 246 Jay Finley RB Cincinnati Bengals

2010 3 80 J.D. Walton C Denver Broncos

2010 6 198 David Gettis WR Carolina Panthers

As for arm strength... no doubt RG has a stronger arm. Ditto for the legs... As I've posted elsewhere, those are reasons to not draft him, unless he has the aptitude and work ethic to compliment them. As for Colt he made plenty of throws he needed to make at the college level as well. NFL caliber? Pffft.. you write as if throwing through a brick wall was the only thing that matters. It's not...

Disagree on Colt's value... easily worth a 3rd, IMO, at least a conditional 3rd. However, if teams sense an urgency to move him, then obviously his value drops.

As for everything else, all I'll do is defer to the GM's across the league that agree with me and not with you. They feel that Griffin is worthy of a top pick in the draft while most didn't give McCoy a second look. But if you're one of the fans who know more than everyone else than I suggest you waste no more time and get involved in some sort of role at in a football program somewhere and your expertise at recognizing McCoys and Griffins erie similarities will no doubt shoot you up through the ranks with a sure fire endpoint of being an NFL GM. Good luck on that one. But until then you're some guy on a message board trying to pull rank and knock a legitimate point made by an informed fan.

jparsh said:

I can say two things with nearly 100% certainty. 1) Colt won't be traded 2) if we did trade Colt we wouldn't get anything more than a 4th round pick for him and that's pushing it.

lmao....i love it. there's so many thing wrong with this....all rolled up into one....that im having a hard time determining where to begin. um...you cant know #2) because you know #1) with 100% certainty....

Pure numbers can't be used, variables need to be taken into account. And the fact that you have two big 12 QB's has nothing to do with it like one person pointed out. Texas was loaded with talent top to bottom. McCoy was working with an elite group of college players and looked good. RG3 had to turn a very subpar Baylor team into contenders with teams that had hands down more talent then they did.

exactly what metric are you using for this assertion besides win loss record?

You then have to look at NFL caliber throws, McCoy never made those throws while Griffin did. Size: that goes to RG3 as well, granted not by much but he's still bigger. Not to mention that McCoy is a solid runner but he's not near the athlete Robert Griffin is.

there's more to "nfl caliber throws" than 5 yard hitches and the deep ball. perhaps griffin knows how to throw an out route....but we dont know cause he possibly hasn't ever thrown one....or taken a snap from under center. 6'1" 216 vs. 6"2" 220? youre even gonna mention size?

Bottom line, there's no comparison between Colt and Robert.

Pure numbers can't be used, variables need to be taken into account. And the fact that you have two big 12 QB's has nothing to do with it like one person pointed out. Texas was loaded with talent top to bottom. McCoy was working with an elite group of college players and looked good. RG3 had to turn a very subpar Baylor team into contenders with teams that had hands down more talent then they did.

You then have to look at NFL caliber throws, McCoy never made those throws while Griffin did. Size: that goes to RG3 as well, granted not by much but he's still bigger. Not to mention that McCoy is a solid runner but he's not near the athlete Robert Griffin is.

Bottom line, there's no comparison between Colt and Robert.

@tour2ma said:

Sorry, but other than #5 your points read like a case against Colt... You are making me reconsider my previous support of him.

It's simply a list of things he could get better at.

Every QB in the league has 5 things they could improve on.

McCoy is the real deal, but we want the flavor of the month RG30000 TI-80 bot sent from the future to kill Sarah Connor.

Give McCoy the two T's, Time, Talent. Talent comes first.

1. Adapt to the speed of the game- yes he still hasn't quite gottent down the notch that an NFL QB's play should be at, but jeez the team led the league in drops AGAIN this year. And for those saying Wallace throws to recievers better than Colt, Wallace does this only a TAD better than McCoy after 11 years of being in the league. I'm sure in the next 2-3 yrs McCoy can be on the same level.

2.Develop Quicker Awareness- This goes from knowing when to throw the ball away/out of bounds once the pocket collapses, and knowing when to run the ball if there are openings in the D. (He had a bad knack for not running with the ball even if there is clearly room to run in front of him).

3.Arm Strength- Some say his hands are too small, some say he doen't set his feet right, some say he has a pool noodle for an arm. This was a problem because of the lack of recievers that actually GO for the ball(young wrs who also have not gotten use to the speed of the game), and also a boneheaded coach calling plays for a Dan Marino/Joe Montana rather than a Colt McCoy. McCoy showed in a 40 completions to 61 attempts passing game that he can get the ball to recievers. And YAC will only get better for Little and hopefully Blackmon/Wright. With the WCO, downfield throws aren't as common. McCoy can work in our offense, it just needs something Browns fans hate, TIME.

4.Accuracy- McCoy has shown some dumb throws, as well as inaccurate throws over the head or at the feet of recievers. Some say it's cause of the height of McCoy.He can't see over o-lineman, I disagree. McCoy hasn't developed the "sense" of knowing where exactly to throw the ball. Watching Drew Brees play is a perfect example. With his ability he's developed, he doesnt need to exactly "see" the reciver. It's muscle memory, throwing a certain pattern to a certain guy has a certain feel to it. Brees has this (as shown against Detroit last night)Colt doesn't have this yet. YET

5.Toughness/Mentality- McCoy has BALLS, KAHUNAS, HAIR ON HIS PEACHES, whatever you wanna call it. The dude played his heart out with a terrible offense around him, a line that (for the most part of the season) gave up sacks, hurries, and hits like Megan Fox gives out boners. It took Jerome Harrison colliding his face with McCoys mid air to get Colt off the field, and he STILL came back out. Yes he threw a pick right after, and shouldn't of been in the game, but damn....he wants to win.

I've always said to keep colt, and to retrieve a QB in the later rounds, 2-3-4. Nothing in the 1st. McCoy is a QB this franchise hasn't had in a while. He's extremely raw for the NFL. If McCoy w3as on the bengals, in place of Andy Dalton. I guarantee you he goes the EXACT same record, maybe even a little better. WHY? The bungles had a D in place, 1 pro bowl reciever with 3 other extremely solid recievers. Decent RBS, and a decent line. That's a rookie QBs dream, and Dalton is living it. McCoy will be better than Dalton in the long run. He has more mobility, he's tougher, and he almost beat Dalton twice this year with inferior products at his dispense.

KEEEEEEP COOOOOOLT

@kamac19 said:

What you think they would get for Colt, reckon get back a 3rd for him, think he has at least proved worthy of that sort of pick, with possible improvement in the right system.

I would be surprised if we could get a 5th for him

@mark-o said:

We draft a QB in round 1..he's starting week 1 next year and Colt is gone.

What you think they would get for Colt, reckon get back a 3rd for him, think he has at least proved worthy of that sort of pick, with possible improvement in the right system.

@mark-o said:

We draft a QB in round 1..he's starting week 1 next year and Colt is gone.

Exactly...4-12 teams don't draft top 10 talent with the intention of sitting them for a year while they learn...They have to contribute from day 1

@vaportrail said:

I think I'm okay with us drafting RG3, so long as we make Colt the starter for another year.

We draft a QB in round 1..he's starting week 1 next year and Colt is gone.

@hempman said:

It isn't Heckert's choice. If Holmgren wants a QB, he will make that pick. I doubt he wants Griffin.

RGIII is a faster stronger Seneca... and MH loves him his Seneca...

WSS,

This offense needs speed/hands and the o-line needs stability before bringing in a potential star QB and ruining his future and potentially his health..

The horse without the wagon cant get the corn to market..

Heckert is very good at what he does and we really need him to bring us skilled potentially near impact players regardless of the positions they play, this team needs help everywhere..

@brownfish said:

Comparing RG3 to Colt Jr. Year/ this is why Heckert won't do it again.

RG3 McCoy

completions 267 332

attempts 369 433

pass yards 3,998 3,859

completion percentage 72.4% 76.7%

Touchdowns 36 34

Interceptions 6 8

Rushes 161 136

Yards 644 561

Longest run 49 44

Rush TDs 9 11

Total Yards 4,657 4,420

*intangibles RG3 is faster, smarter and has nicer teeth

Colt is tougher, cheaper and has a better looking wife

you can always buy nicer teeth but you really can't buy a better wife, and keep most of your money

so you see we can get colt nicer teeth for a lot less than we can get RG3 a better looking wife

The browns organization will save a bundle in the long run

There is certainly a lot of legitimacy when you look at the pure statistics to say that Colt was every bit as good a QB as RGIII.

It isn't Heckert's choice. If Holmgren wants a QB, he will make that pick. I doubt he wants Griffin.

@typicalbrowns said:

Use the #4 pick for a skill position player/defensive beast!!!

^^^ This