@thaak said:

If all those other teams thought the same, then those great QB's of the past wouldn't have lasted past season 2 of their tenure.

this is true, but the point I'm making is that today's NFL is vastly different than that of when most of those QB's were starting out. It was okay to look just average because QB's were given a slow learning curve. Today's NFL isn't that way. Whether you believe this to be the case or not, look at the QB's coming out in the past 5 or so years. The learning curve is a lot steeper because the game is tailored for QB's to shine early and often. I know that's tough to accept and you may not agree with me, but it's true. The fact of the matter is a true franchise QB shows himself quickly rather than later. And I just don't see that in McCoy

Zombo said:

If we don't have Peyton Manning, RG3 or Andrew Luck at QB next Season, we are missing a chance to kickstart this franchise.

Sure, every QB can be compared to the all-time QBs through two seasons, I am guilty of doing it myself with Couch back in the day.

Yes, there is a chance Colt could turn into a franchise QB. But it is not a good one. He's a third round QB (But Brady was 6th round!) Who is short (But Drew Brees is shorter!) has an average at best arm (Chad Pennington took two teams to the playoffs!) has average intelligence (Bret Favre can barely spell!) and has been largely unimpressive in his first two years in the league (Look at all these other historical guys! Our system sucks! He has no weapons!)...

He's a good guy. He's likable. He's determined. He's hard-working. You wouldn't mind if your daughter brought home a single Colt McCoy to dinner. I like him a lot.

But we are not picking a mascot, a cheerleader or a prom date ... we need a franchise QB ... we need a blue chip talent to come in here and grab this franchise by the balls and turn it into a winner. That's a tall order. They don't grow on trees.

Peyton Manning can do it, we know that. Robert Griffin and Andrew Luck probably possess a better than 60% chance of being able to do that. Colt ... is a good guy we HOPE can do that.

How has that "hope" thing worked out for us so far?

Let's go out and get a stud.

We pick fourth, we have two #1's, there are real live franchise propects out there ... let's do this and don't look back.

Zombo

The browns have failed over and over by trying to get a franchise guy early in the draft because they fail to address other needs

There is absolutely no such thing as a sure draft pick and there have been far more busts to come out of the first round than there have been stars

Colt is a proven guy that everybody knows is capable of playing in the league...why give up on that for a gamble at a position that isn't a need right now.

If u are going to gamble with a draft pick you should do so with a player that can actually address the teams issues

@jrb12711 said:

If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times on here. To me, it's worthless to compare stats to good QB's of the past to say "oh Colt is gonna be good". You have to base whether or not he's the browns QB based on what he's done on the field, period. Secondly, the NFL all those guys played in and the NFL is completely different, IMO almost two different offensive games. The dawn of "protecting the QB" has yielded an offensive, passing league. Just look at all the top teams in the NFL and there's a common denominator of that passing idea. So to me, the idea of McCoy as a QB for the future is simple: Has he shown he can be a 300 yard, 2-3 a game type QB? IMO, he just isn't at that level. It's a valid argument to say he hasn't had tools at all, but franchise QB's make the guys around them better. We've seen this consistently in the NFL.

So what the bottom line here? I trust Holmgren's opinion on if he has an opportunity to succeed because frankly he knows more about a QB than I'll know in two lifetimes. But based on what I've seen, he just doesn't have it.

If all those other teams thought the same, then those great QB's of the past wouldn't have lasted past season 2 of their tenure.

but Wallace, with all his years as a backup, doesn't make reads, he just unloads the ball.

And, in that, he makes some really stupidass decisions. That puts him as way less an answer

than Colt is.

And, Wallace in the last game? He had Hicks at RT, and Hicks did a pretty nice job most of the time.

and Wallace still had a 42.whatever qb rating. And when Wallace wimped out and ran out of bounds

about 4 yards ahead of an oncoming defender? Really, Seneca? You could have had a first down easily,

you could have cut back on field and slid and gotten another 2 or 3 yards. Wallace has no fire, it seems.

He's been a backup forever for good reasons. And, I predict again, that if the Browns draft RGIII, Mccoy will still start

ahead of him, for at least part of the season. RG will have serious learning to do.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2012/01/cleveland_browns_plan_to_impro.html

Zombo said:

Agreed, McCoy > Wallace.

Neither of them will ever cost a Steeler fan or Raven fan aminute of sleep though.

Zombo

--RG3 easily has a higher ceiling than Flacco or the redhead ... BGB's injuries will catch up with him ... RG3 best QB in division within 2-3 years.

I like your thinking and am hoping you are right. There will be a competition for McCoy at QB, be that a Draftee or a FA....or both.

@the-gipper said:

Anyone that thinks that Seneca Wallace has come in here and outperformed Colt McCoy has got shit for brains. I have watched Wallace for every throw he has made. He has made what I consider to be one good play in three games.

He is a backup. He would be a backup for Colt McCoy....or for anyone else we brought in here.

That F**k someone else sees it the same way as myself, All I will say is if there is going to be a competition for the QB spot next year, it better be Colt against a Drafted QB or one from FA, not Wallace, cause like you have said he certainly didnt outperform McCoy in his end off season games. And this is from a supposed seasond WCO QB, so I will have serious doubts about the credibility of Shurmur and MH if they install Wallace as the QB to start next year. Some of Wallace decision making in those games was horrendous, and McCoy would certainly have coped better in those games that I have no doubt.

@gips said:

Regardless of how the regime has pushed it off colt mccoy just does not fit well into pat shurmurs offense, he was exposed as not being able to utilize the small windows of opportunity afforded by our slow WRs/TE's for various reasons including the game just being to fast for him meanwhile wallace cold off the bench came in and both found and utilized some of those opportunities, so unless shurmur plans on reworking his system colt is not the ideal QB for this system even with faster WRs and better blocking..

Anyone that thinks that Seneca Wallace has come in here and outperformed Colt McCoy has got shit for brains. I have watched Wallace for every throw he has made. He has made what I consider to be one good play in three games.

He is a backup. He would be a backup for Colt McCoy....or for anyone else we brought in here.

@websterslaughter said:

Tim couch had similar numbers through 15 games. How did that turn out?

Tim Couch Stats

Not too badly. He took the Browns to the playoffs in his 4th season, then he got hurt. I would expect McCoy to do the same.

Zombo said:

If we don't have Peyton Manning, RG3 or Andrew Luck at QB next Season, we are missing a chance to kickstart this franchise.

Sure, every QB can be compared to the all-time QBs through two seasons, I am guilty of doing it myself with Couch back in the day.

Yes, there is a chance Colt could turn into a franchise QB. But it is not a good one. He's a third round QB (But Brady was 6th round!) Who is short (But Drew Brees is shorter!) has an average at best arm (Chad Pennington took two teams to the playoffs!) has average intelligence (Bret Favre can barely spell!) and has been largely unimpressive in his first two years in the league (Look at all these other historical guys! Our system sucks! He has no weapons!)...

He's a good guy. He's likable. He's determined. He's hard-working. You wouldn't mind if your daughter brought home a single Colt McCoy to dinner. I like him a lot.

But we are not picking a mascot, a cheerleader or a prom date ... we need a franchise QB ... we need a blue chip talent to come in here and grab this franchise by the balls and turn it into a winner. That's a tall order. They don't grow on trees.

Peyton Manning can do it, we know that. Robert Griffin and Andrew Luck probably possess a better than 60% chance of being able to do that. Colt ... is a good guy we HOPE can do that.

How has that "hope" thing worked out for us so far?

Let's go out and get a stud.

We pick fourth, we have two #1's, there are real live franchise propects out there ... let's do this and don't look back.

Zombo

Excatly Thread Closed

Tim Couch Stats

Zombo said:

Those guys are all irrelevant. Different eras, imo.

Compare to Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Roetlisberger ... the guys that win in this era.

Zombo

I didn't make the list, and I'm too lazy to look up the data. But, when I think about those guys that you listed, I think about them coming into systems that were already in place instead of the shitshow that is the rest of the browns offense.

Zombo said:

Those guys are all irrelevant. Different eras, imo.

Compare to Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Roetlisberger ... the guys that win in this era.

Zombo

Or Zombo how about Cam Newton,Matt Stafford and Sam Bradford that might be a better scale

Zombo said:

Those guys are all irrelevant. Different eras, imo.

Compare to Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Roetlisberger ... the guys that win in this era.

Zombo

I believe I did that in the past month or two....and found that McCoy was comparable to them as well.

@harry-buffalo said:

Honestly I like Bray Barkley and Murry, all 3 run pro systems.

I have to say Murray looked like a star in the SEC championship game against LSU's NFL caliber offense.

@harry-buffalo said:

Honestly I like Bray Barkley and Murry, all 3 run pro systems.

Running a pro system should have very little bearing on why you draft a QB. I think the only thing it may help with is the he will have less stuff to learn to become a starter say over someone who runs a spread. It doesn't mean a pro style offense QB is better QB than a spread offense QB.

@hempman said:

Draft some QB's, maybe 2 in this draft. Just get some fresh arms. Our QB roster was as thin as the WR roster and maybe thinner. Both need fattened up a bit more.

wow, it must be great to young, dumb and high. wait a minute...i am.