Looks like Peter King thinks Williams may not be back in Houston...

@frenchie said:

He has high awareness and play recognition as

a DE but has not made the transition to the OLB. He struggles in zone coverage and is not in a

position to take full advantage of his skills.

His instincts are good with enough moves both power and finesse to be

very effective.

He will be highly sought after as a free agent and get a

nice payday. He is not what the Browns

will go after but exactly what they need.

Very seldom can you get a first overall pick that has been successful as

a free agent. The Browns should but probably won't get this one.

He is expecting and will get a ton of money. Probably more than he is worth! Don't be surprised to see James Harrison available too this offseason. His cap hit and age may have him on the market.

Zombo said:

Who am I?

I am an unrestricted free agent this year.

I am 30 years old.

I have 83.5 sacks in my career.

I'm going to my fourth straight Pro Bowl next week.

I have never had less than 9.5 sacks in a full season, I have forced 39 fumbles, and I have always played in a 4-3 system where the pressure comes from the ends.

My name is Robert Mathis.

Zombo

I knew the answer but you already gave it...

@hoorta said:

"No history of injury problems?" A torn pectoral that put him on IR for the year, plus a couple of other injuries where he lost time doesn't count in your book?

BS Williams will command a contract bigger than any WR FA this year, or any of the past 3 years. Take it to the bank. Boldin got 4 years, $28 million. Williams will get 3X that, at least.

Glad you agree with me- I'll take 5 Fords that can play rather than one Mercedes. Us going after Williams is about as smart as the Eagles signing Asomugah.

Yes Williams is a poor fit in Houston's 3-4, especially with the emergence of (the much cheaper) JJ Watt. Williams is going to want to get paid, big time- so it will happen- just not in Cleveland.

He's had this year on IR, where he played 5 games. Every year besides he played the entire season, except for 2010 when he missed 3 games.

If thats "injury history", then nobody in the league is ever "healthy".

As for his contract, he signed a six-year $56 million dollar contract as the first overall pick. That's probably near the same contract he'll get again. Now that rookies salaries are capped, GM's have a slight bit more pull in FA contract negotiations, which could ultimately lead to smaller contracts than years past. Either way, it's still a large contract, but by no means is it a Haynesworth style bankbuster.

The thing is, we've taken Fords in the FA market for the last 5-6 years. At some point, you have to buy a luxury car, or else you're stick with....well....Fords.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Williams isn't going to come here unless we offer him a shit ton of money more than the other guys, which H&H won't do. the DE situation i'm way more interested in is actually in NY with the super bowl bound giants. those guys seem to have and endless supply of Defensive ends and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they try and move one (namely Osi) now that JPP looks like he's gonna be a monster.

Sometimes you have to take a chance and make a bold move, and it is about time the Browns did.

We have to kickstart this thing because drafting is a slow way to improving. Drafting is a good way to stay good, but when you suck, you have to add to the drafting process.

I don't care what it costs. One way or another the team is going to fit it all inside the cap, and one way or the other the team is going to have to start spending the allotted amounts on player salaries, and I just don't see handing out big chunks of change to some of the scrubs we currently have on the roster.

In the past it was linemen who jumped us a notch or two when we signed guys like Alzado and Harrsiton. Now we need to make a serious run at Williams.

Drafting is great, but you can only expect to get maybe 2-3 players a draft who actually turn in to plus players, and that's best case. Some years it works out maybe 1 player.

When you have possibly 12 holes to fill, you are looking at maybe 6 years of drafting. Then you have to factor that in 6 years players like Thomas will be about used up, so unless one plans on getting really lucky in the draft, we have to add some solid talent in free agency. If we don't we'll continue to be stuck in the mud for another 10 years.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I agree, you have to spend intelligently.

Mario Williams is 26 years old, in the prime of his career, has no history of injury problems, is not an off-the-field distraction, and from all accounts is a tremendous person. His stats have never wavered, and even in his off years he makes it to the Pro Bowl.

Honestly, this would probably be the most intelligent FA decision since returning.

I agree his contract will be quite large, but not nearly as huge as some of the WR's people have been demanding we acquire year in and out. Most of his contract with the Texans was performance based, and for a first overall pick it was relatively cheap.

I also realize the draft class is stacked with quality DE's and adding Williams won't happen. But to not add an FA because he's not going to "put you over the hump" is ridiculous. No single player will do that, honestly. But avoiding FA because of that, however, is a sure fire way of keeping yourself from ever getting over the hump.

"No history of injury problems?" A torn pectoral that put him on IR for the year, plus a couple of other injuries where he lost time doesn't count in your book?

BS Williams will command a contract bigger than any WR FA this year, or any of the past 3 years. Take it to the bank. Boldin got 4 years, $28 million. Williams will get 3X that, at least.

Glad you agree with me- I'll take 5 Fords that can play rather than one Mercedes. Us going after Williams is about as smart as the Eagles signing Asomugah.

Yes Williams is a poor fit in Houston's 3-4, especially with the emergence of (the much cheaper) JJ Watt. Williams is going to want to get paid, big time- so it will happen- just not in Cleveland.

If you put him next to Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard 3 guys who have to all be accounted for he is going to help generate a helluva pass rush. A pass rush that could be so good it will help cover any flaws our secondary might have.

Obviously he isn't going to take us from a 4-12 team to a contender. He will however be able to get to Flacco, Berger, and Dalton on a pretty regular basis and force them into making mistakes. Getting him also free's up a first or second rounder that we would need to otherwise use on a DE and use it on a LB or DB

If the Browns wanted to pursue him I don't think it would be impossible to think he would come here. We just have to outbid other teams. It is that simple.

@hoorta said:

Exactly- you evaluate the DEs in this draft class, and if you think they're worthy- you take one of them and don't blow 80 million of cap room on one player. Mario Williams is not going to turn the Browns into a Super Bowl team in 2012- not without another linebacker or two, a solid corner opposite Joe Haden, and someone better at saftey opposite Ward than Young or Adams. That's not even counting the massive holes that have to be plugged on the offensive side. Can't be done in one year.

As I've said before- I'm not averse to spending money on FAs- but do it INTELLIGENTLY. How about spending $20-30 million on a stud FA RT instead? I'm well past the ohhh, ahh, gotta have this guy stage.

I agree, you have to spend intelligently.

Mario Williams is 26 years old, in the prime of his career, has no history of injury problems, is not an off-the-field distraction, and from all accounts is a tremendous person. His stats have never wavered, and even in his off years he makes it to the Pro Bowl.

Honestly, this would probably be the most intelligent FA decision since returning.

I agree his contract will be quite large, but not nearly as huge as some of the WR's people have been demanding we acquire year in and out. Most of his contract with the Texans was performance based, and for a first overall pick it was relatively cheap.

I also realize the draft class is stacked with quality DE's and adding Williams won't happen. But to not add an FA because he's not going to "put you over the hump" is ridiculous. No single player will do that, honestly. But avoiding FA because of that, however, is a sure fire way of keeping yourself from ever getting over the hump.

@jrb12711 said:

I mean I see the point Hoorta is making. When I think of paying insane money to a FA from another that should be the guy that puts a playoff contender over the hump to a super bowl. We have a lot of cap room but Mario Williams is going to get a Demarcus Ware esque contract according to most things i've seen (6 years, 79 mil). That's ALOT of money to throw at one guy on a 4-12 level football team. I'd be a lot more intrigued if I felt DE was the last piece to the puzzle to make the team contenders, but that just isn't true. I think we're one solid draft away from really being able to go out and get the top guys. I realistically see him getting the franchise tag though. Sure Brooks Reed looked good but Mario is a top 2-3 DE and defensive player in this league. It's tough though because the Texans have to consider Foster re-signing and Schaub who's up for a new contract this next season.

I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry).

Exactly- you evaluate the DEs in this draft class, and if you think they're worthy- you take one of them and don't blow 80 million of cap room on one player. Mario Williams is not going to turn the Browns into a Super Bowl team in 2012- not without another linebacker or two, a solid corner opposite Joe Haden, and someone better at saftey opposite Ward than Young or Adams. That's not even counting the massive holes that have to be plugged on the offensive side. Can't be done in one year.

As I've said before- I'm not averse to spending money on FAs- but do it INTELLIGENTLY. How about spending $20-30 million on a stud FA RT instead? I'm well past the ohhh, ahh, gotta have this guy stage.

I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry).

@dawginit said:

The draft class at DE is pretty deep. Nick Perry, Melvin Ingram, Whitney Mercilus, or Brandon Jenkins could be available with our second 1st rounder or our second rounder. These are players that would solidify our d line.

Very true. I would not be upset if we landed any of those prospects. I'd include Vinny Curry in the discussion as well.

But we still need to acquire some FA's. Williams is probably the best value we'll get for the price, and that would leave us to address another need with the draft pick we would have used for DE.

Either way, I'm happy.

We're nearing the point where we can stop adding middle-quality depth FA's and pull the trigger on a more influential "gamebreaker" type FA. It's scary to think about, but it's the truth.

He could be the guy who puts an up and coming defense over the top (along with drafting an outside backer as well and retaining DQ)He could give the defense an idenity. Someone opposing teams have to account for.

As far as you guys who are thinking why would he leave the Texans for the Browns ... It is simple really. Money. At 26 he is looking more for a huge payday then a championship. Plus he doesn't want to be a 3-4 outside backer he wants to be where he is comfortable in the 4-3 at DE.

I say grab him. I would do whatever it took to get him. And even if they got him I would still even pursue trading with the Giants for Osi. Osi, Sheard, and Williams would cause some serious pass rush.

@unsympathetic said:

What makes anyone think Williams would leave a SB contender for a team that's not a contender? He's already been through playing for Houston while they're not a contender.. I wouldn't waste time.

Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell.

Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals.

Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder.

Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after.

The nice rookie year by Brooks Reed ensures the Texans won't bring back MW. They were trying to make Mario an OLB in a 3-4 system before he got hurt. That's too expensive of a project. Add to that, as talented as he is, he has looked lazy at times. The Texans have a top 5 defense without him........he's not going back.

@hoorta said:

Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland.

Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority.

I don't believe he'll land here either. But that shouldn't be for a lack of trying.

I get we have many missing pieces. I never claimed Mario would be the guy to put us over the top. No defensive end ever is that guy. He's a big name free agent with the stat line to match and with many, MANY miles still left in the tank, who isn't going to command as much as some of the other guys people have clamored for in FA. His contract will still be large, granted, but not so large that we won't have room for other players. In other words, he's probably the best "big name" FA acquisition we could in terms of production/value.

Fact is, we have to spend a certain amount of our cap. Why spend it on five or six shite players as has been the case for the last 6 or 7 years? We're in the position to make drastic leaps this year, with the amount of draft picks we have and the cap room as well. We can finally afford to go for a big fish FA.

mikeyP72 said:

Completely losing faith in some of you.

Don't go after Mario Williams, yeah, that is really smart.

We'll be fine with Jayme Mitchell or some other second or third rate DE again...

Didn't I tell you he was garbage before the season started? How many people told me no, don't go after Osi or Kiwanuka?

Mitchell is FINE.

I was crazy.

Rolling on the floor right now at the garbage being spewed.

Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland.

Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority.

Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell.

Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals.

Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder.

Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after.

Not to mention that if houston doesnt resign mario he would likely get equal offers from other places he would rather go..

think the stools are happy about paying timmons 9.1 mil this year? they're 20 mil over the cap as is....and still need room to sign wallace...

i could stomach a williams move cause he's young, but he's not gonna make or break this team.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense.

We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts.

Totally missing the point I see. Reggie White was the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the stepping stone. Teams reached for the last piece of the puzzle (Asomugah, Julio Jones) and fell flat on their ass last season. The Browns aren't anywhere close talent wise to the Eagles and Falcons- you you want to risk going for the grand Wazoo when it's damn obvious Williams won't put us over the top in 2012? Maybe not even in 2013 when we DON'T have the cap room to sign any quality players. Ever think about THAT?

Flynn, schminn. Go for Drew Brees- give him $28 million Peyton Manning money while you're at it. Sorry- but going for an absolute stud #1 FA will affect everything else you do in free agency. Take a lesson from the hated Steelers- they bring in guys like Williams- like never.

@hoorta said:

You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve.

Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed.

Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl.

I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts.

I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense.

We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts.

@nw220 said:

I'll post the interviews when i get a min, all he said was they were gonna stick to there format which was what they had been doing the past few years taking players that they thought could contribute but at the right price...He didnt say they wouldnt bring in someone but didnt think you could bring high priced F/As to build a team the right way..

YOu are correct. They did state that the Draft is how they are going to build this team.. F/A isn't out of the question, but the Draft is how they are primarily going to do it.