@miktoxic said:

i don't remember anyone on the brown's staff ever saying anything or making it 'clear' that they don't believe colt is their guy or that they are going to draft another QB.

and if the rams need anything it's an offensive line to protect their #1 QB prospect who has done what since being drafted? how many games have they won with a #1 QB prospect starting for them? don't tell me RG3 could have done a better job.

sorry if it sounded like i was dogging the big 12. i just don't think the conference is at the level of play that other conferences. and all in all i really don't care.

H&H have said they're bringing in a new QB and would like to bring in a new one every year until they find their guy. H&H also haven't made it abundantly clear that Colt is our franchise QB, which I can only assume means they don't believe they have their guy.

As far as the Rams go they drafted a OT in the first round 2 years ago (Jason Smith with the 2nd overall pick) and in the first round in 05 on Alex Barron. Both ended up on injury reserve last year. What hurt Bradford the most though was the loss of Danny Amendola, his favorite target from the previous year, and Mark Clayton, injured again. Not much is heard about Clayton due to injuries the past two years but when he is on the field, had instant chemistry with Bradford. While protection is important, the Rams have a lot of money tied up into their tackle position and have an extreme lack of offensive weapons for Bradford to utilize which is why I have a hard time seeing them take another OT 2nd overall.

As for college conferences the SEC is obviously at the top with the Pac 12 and Big 12 on the second tier considerating that both conferences have multiple teams that have/had recent realistic chances at competing for the national championship ( USC, Oregon, Stanford, OU, UT, and Okla St.) Ohio St is the only team from the Big 10 that's had a recent realistic chance at the NC, the ACC and Big East haven't had for about 15 years or so. The Big 12 has slipped a bit due to the realignment but they still have plenty of talent, more then most conferences.

@hoorta said:

Just drop the Race Card right now- it doesn't play well here. FWIW, I had a black roommate for a couple of years after I got out of college for a few years until I got myself together financially. I could care less if Griffin is black, green or blue- if we draft him and he takes the Browns to the Super Bowl he'll be the toast of the town. Like Cleveland didn't wildly support LeBron while he was a Cav? Go take your racial overtones and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

100%^

football is a game friends are for a lifetime. my friend and i test the boundaries of racism every flippin day. both being white going into the lenox lounge in harlem over 10 yrs ago and us being teetering on the edge of a eggshell drunk, who walked in michael jordan. yes, 'the michael jordan' with his crew. my friend must have said this at least ten times "that ain't no mfer michael jordan!" and i'd continue to calm him down all the while the whole bar (85% black were laughing and trying to push MJ on into some confrontation. well by the 6th time this was screamed over the smooth R&B jukebox they came strolling over to us where we were sitting at the bar and i go to my friend "hey you're right, that ain't no michael jordan..that is michael jordan. upon that my friend looked up, realized his mistake said some sort of an apology and stood up off his barstool and got like a 10 min. bro hug from MJ. and he dropped 5 buy backs on us each on his way out the door.

i don't care what color you are just don't be a dumbass (which includes rednecks, crackers, japs, chinks, molotos, beaners, homos, nigels, christians, baptists...i know i got more but what the hell).

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

Cleveland fans, you really need to come out your shell. Drafting RGIII is not the equivalent of your daughter marrying a black man. And even if it was, the union should be one of celebration, not disdain.

I sense so much more than 'player evaluation' is going on when it comes to Robert Griffin III. I feel words are flying all over the place reeking of racial undertones. Many posts about the guy lack logic, and really, this is disappointment. Too much of this is going on.

This is just my opinion, tho...

Just drop the Race Card right now- it doesn't play well here. FWIW, I had a black roommate for a couple of years after I got out of college for a few years until I got myself together financially. I could care less if Griffin is black, green or blue- if we draft him and he takes the Browns to the Super Bowl he'll be the toast of the town. Like Cleveland didn't wildly support LeBron while he was a Cav? Go take your racial overtones and stick 'em where the sun don't shine.

Look- Jason J already gave us the dope on RGIII, and he's forgotten more about football than you apparently know. About all you're proving is you have a man crush on Griffin, and can't answer my question about how much of Griffin you have actually seen. Highlight videos on YouTube don't count sorry to tell you. I'm sure I could pull up some amazing stuff on Jamarcus Russell if I bothered to try. Or rebut any of my concerns that the Browns have inadequate right side o-line protection, and don't currently have a WR that can play to Griffin's biggest strength- deep accuracy, and are running an offensive system that minimizes the need for that.

@choco said:

the big 12 shouldn't even really be a football conference. take off the helmets and line their belt with flags. i believe gipper posted the breakdown that.....a big 12 QB has never won a superbowl?

swagger? lmao...i remember another QB that was taking endorsement deals before he ever threw an NFL pass. he's currently riding the pine well behind tebow.

If you knew the history of the Big 12 you would realize that until the spread offense (starting taking hold about 10 to 15 years ago), the Big 12 was dominated by run first, wishbone/triple option offenses so the fact that they haven't had a QB win the Super Bowl isn't really surprising considering a good Big 12 QB was more proficient at running then passing. Now that the offenses of the Big 12 have begun to rely on the pass more, you've seen a large influx of QB talent especially in the past 5 years or so.

@taco918 said:

As far as drafting a QB this year, Holmgren has made it pretty clear that they don't believe Colt is their guy. If they did they wouldn't even be entertaining the thought of drafting another QB. Also keep in mind that Colt is a third round pick and has never been viewed as our franchise QB so the whole argument that we shouldn't draft a QB just because we drafted one 2 years ago doesn't really fit. You give most 1st round QB picks at least 3 years but not a 3rd rounder. I'd rather take a chance at a QB this year (preferably RG3) then wait until next year and choose between what I believe to be lesser talent, or at least, talent that is more dependent on their surrounding talent. Now if we can stay at 4 and 22, this would be the perfect draft to go after a big time QB prospect as we'll still have the 22 and the rest of our draft to pick up talent to fill in the rest of the roster. I'd be fine with trading a 3 or 4 to trade up, maybe even a 2nd, but I have a hard time parting with the 22nd as well. Then you're getting into pretty risky territory in terms of losing an extra first round prospect if the RG3 pick doesn't work out. Although I have a really hard time seeing the Ram's pass on Blackmon. If the Ram's need anything it is a big time WR.

i don't remember anyone on the brown's staff ever saying anything or making it 'clear' that they don't believe colt is their guy or that they are going to draft another QB.

and if the rams need anything it's an offensive line to protect their #1 QB prospect who has done what since being drafted? how many games have they won with a #1 QB prospect starting for them? don't tell me RG3 could have done a better job.

sorry if it sounded like i was dogging the big 12. i just don't think the conference is at the level of play that other conferences. and all in all i really don't care.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

You're right, many posts about RG3 do lack logic.

And they're all from you.

I picked up the gauntlet and slapped you with logic multiple times, and have yet to hear a response other than "the dude has swagger". Go fuck yourself and your "racial undertones", you don't know shit about football.

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

Cleveland fans, you really need to come out your shell. Drafting RGIII is not the equivalent of your daughter marrying a black man. And even if it was, the union should be one of celebration, not disdain.

I sense so much more than 'player evaluation' is going on when it comes to Robert Griffin III. I feel words are flying all over the place reeking of racial undertones. Many posts about the guy lack logic, and really, this is disappointment. Too much of this is going on.

This is just my opinion, tho...

You're right, many posts about RG3 do lack logic.

And they're all from you.

I picked up the gauntlet and slapped you with logic multiple times, and have yet to hear a response other than "the dude has swagger". Go fuck yourself and your "racial undertones", you don't know shit about football.

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

What else can it be?? I'm not saying this is an overt case but the attachment to McCoy is baffling when you consider its in direction opposition to the general reaction to Griffin. Even moreso, the Browns as a staff themselves won't commit the same support to McCoy as a large faction of tlthis board. Just today Shurmur said the quarterback situation is a 'process'.

It's not an attachment to McCoy as much as it is a realization that the Browns don't have many weapons on the offensive side of the ball. You need pieces in place to give a QB a chance at success. The Browns staff isn't openly committing to McCoy because he is most likely not the long term answer at QB. But McCoy is a serviceable starter in the NFL. The Browns don't want to say that McCoy isn't the guy because it is still very likely that he will start in 2012. The QB position is always a "process" just like any other position really. There is always the transition period between college play and the NFL. Some great college players make the transition and others don't.

@choco said:

the big 12 shouldn't even really be a football conference. take off the helmets and line their belt with flags. i believe gipper posted the breakdown that.....a big 12 QB has never won a superbowl?

Actually, you could say that a Big 12 QB only ever started one single SuperBowl...Vince Ferragamo of Nebraska...and of course Neb. is now a Big 10 school.

And Aikman started at Oklahoma, but switched to UCLA.

So, that is 2 halves of a QB.

The list also revealed that small colleges, like Delaware, Alcorn A&M, Louisiana Tech, Augustana, etc. had 19 SB starters.

swagger? lmao...i remember another QB that was taking endorsement deals before he ever threw an NFL pass. he's currently riding the pine well behind tebow.

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

Browns fans, why are you afraid of such swagger and potential greatness?

That is the question...

No one is afraid of it. We will take it....if he is there at #4.

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

What else can it be??

price.

and if you want anyone to take you seriously, which appears that as of now noone does, then stop lumping everyone into the same boat of liking mccoy, and actually try reading.

its so simple to you because youre a simpleton...u lack complex thought processes necessary to keep up. so you just chime in with a hjighlight vid or fluff piece while ignoring the football discussion by simply stating we all love colt.

so if you dont really wanna talk football, and continue on your personal mission to get your boyfriend drafted, then do it elsewhere. cause we'll just continue to ignore your bullshit just as you ignore ours.

What the hell does that mean?

What does that mean for McCoy?

I mean, seriously, the dude can barely throw a 15 yard out and all I hear is about receivers dropping passes and the right aide of the offensive line is weak.

No, the quarterback is weak. Drafting a 6'1 receiver who runs a 4.5 at #4 won't change this. Drafting a right tackle won't change this.

As a fanbase, the consensus should be directly behind Robert Griffin III. Enough of the trash product. Enough of the excuses. Get this guy so we Browns fans who are about winning can have a team to support.

stupid.

the only explanation your tiny little brain can come up with is racism?

i agreed Z...the new guys just get dumber and dumber every year. im still waiting for this assclown to address his hypocrisy.

I sense so much more than 'player evaluation' is going on when it comes to Robert Griffin III. I feel words are flying all over the place reeking of racial undertones. Many posts about the guy lack logic, and really, this is disappointment. Too much of this is going on.

This is just my opinion, tho...

swagger? lmao...i remember another QB that was taking endorsement deals before he ever threw an NFL pass. he's currently riding the pine well behind tebow.

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

Browns fans, why are you afraid of such swagger and potential greatness?

That is the question...

Well, here's your answer.... LOL, I don't think "swagger" has ever won an NFL game. And guys like Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, and Akilli Smith all had "potential" greatness out the wazoo. Gipper had some interesting stats. In the years 1995-2009 18 quarterbacks were taken with the first 5 picks. Six of them underachieved, and four of them were flat out major busts. So history says RGIII is far from a "sure thing". Falling in love with a particular player at this early stage of the draft derby is something I'm not about to do.

So what Miktoxic just said- you his agent or something? Did you happen to go to Baylor, and watch every one of his games? I'm sure Holmgren, Shurmur and Childress will watch a few hundred hours of tape on the guy, interview him, send 1\2 the staff to Indy and his Pro day and make a VERY informed decision about whether they should draft RGIII- or not. They certainly know enough about McCoy to determine if he warrants another year @ qb with an improved offense.

I have no bias one way or another- MHO is Griffin is a great talent- but he's not as sure a pick as Andrew Luck- and he's not invincible either- or you forgetting about that torn ACL? I'm glad Griffin can motor at a high speed, because if we don't find a decent RT, he's going to need it. Gee, he's got a great arm for those 60 yard bombs- too bad the Browns don't have a WR like Torrey Smith or Mike Wallace who can actually get behind a defense.

And sure enough- the Browns have plenty of other needs- like a DE, LB, and CB that could warrant using the #4 pick on.

@miktoxic said:

where did i ever say i wanted the browns to draft a qb this year? i wasn't dogging your beloved big 12 so calm down sparky.

miktoxic, on 20 February 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

and if i'm not mistaken didn't both mccoy and RG3 play in the same whack ass conference? so mccoy lit up all the records at texas, but sucks compared to RG3 who lit up the numbers for the baylor bears. have you seen that conference lately. texas ain't shit a&m is moving.....who the fuck has baylor played? TCU? they fell off this year too. so let's go draft somebody with less accomplishments in the same crappy conference, oh and let's draft his wide receiver too.

we can be the baylor browns. GTFO!

Aren't dogging it huh? The reason I'm constantly sticking up for the Big 12 is because they are constantly dogged on here. At least give the conference a fair shake and the respect it deserves. Considering you couldn't name the top two teams in the conference this year, failing to realize that A&M has been mediocre at best the past 5 to 6 years and really doesn't harm the Big 12 as much as Nebraska leaving, plus the additions of TCU and West Virginia next year offsetting losses from the previous two years, it doesn't seem like you really grasp the conference as a whole. You hear the snipets from ESPN saying the Big 12 has shaky defenses and assume it to be gospel. Now I don't pretend to have a great understanding of all the major football conferences but at the same time, I never say anything negative towards them, especially if I have to take a shot in the dark to make a comment concerning them.

As far as drafting a QB this year, Holmgren has made it pretty clear that they don't believe Colt is their guy. If they did they wouldn't even be entertaining the thought of drafting another QB. Also keep in mind that Colt is a third round pick and has never been viewed as our franchise QB so the whole argument that we shouldn't draft a QB just because we drafted one 2 years ago doesn't really fit. You give most 1st round QB picks at least 3 years but not a 3rd rounder. I'd rather take a chance at a QB this year (preferably RG3) then wait until next year and choose between what I believe to be lesser talent, or at least, talent that is more dependent on their surrounding talent. Now if we can stay at 4 and 22, this would be the perfect draft to go after a big time QB prospect as we'll still have the 22 and the rest of our draft to pick up talent to fill in the rest of the roster. I'd be fine with trading a 3 or 4 to trade up, maybe even a 2nd, but I have a hard time parting with the 22nd as well. Then you're getting into pretty risky territory in terms of losing an extra first round prospect if the RG3 pick doesn't work out. Although I have a really hard time seeing the Ram's pass on Blackmon. If the Ram's need anything it is a big time WR.

@rgiii-to-da-c-l-e said:

Browns fans, why are you afraid of such swagger and potential greatness?

That is the question...

yeah at another position other than QB this year? how about a DE or LB that wants to crush QBs or anything else coming their way.....you don't think we could use someone like that? or a WR that can blast past any CB or LB and CATCH a ball for big yards. you don't think we could use a guy like that? a better than patrick petersen CB? a speed back? a RT? how about getting some swagger in those positions?

i've really tried to get your intrigue with RG3. but we just drafted a QB 2 years ago. who else do you quit on after 2 years of changes, no weapons, offensive suckiness on all levels? are you RG3's agent?

i don't remember myself ever acting like this past 5 years old. "if i don't get what i want' waaa"

can u give it a rest for one day at least?

@taco918 said:

So which conference should we look for "actual" QB prospects? The Pac 12? Well their defensive numbers are right in line with the Big 12. The Big 10? All they are offering is Kirk Cousins and attempting to take credit for an ACC prospect in Russell Wilson. The SEC offers no QB prospects this year. The Big 12 and Pac 12 offer the most QB talent this year and next. Bitch about the defense all you want but the SEC is the only conference that can boast of elite defenses and they have no QB prospects this year. Either way if we take a QB this year they will have played against inferior defensive talent. Its not just the Big 12, its every conference besides the SEC.

where did i ever say i wanted the browns to draft a qb this year? i wasn't dogging your beloved big 12 so calm down sparky.