@choco said:

one of those biggest needs happen to be at QB. we're not winning anything till we solidify that position.

I agree we will always be at the bottom of the division without improved QB play. I think Colt can play better but I think he is close to his ceiling already. You must have a franchise QB if you want to win a SB, we don't have one. Doesn't matter how good the rest of the team is, without a top tier QB we aren't winning anything. If the FO believe RG3 is a franchise guy you have to look at acquiring him. I can't say what is too much, but sometimes short term pain is worth long term gain. On the flipside if he were to bust and we gave up a lot then we would never hear the end of it.

@ballpeen said:

I'd give both number 1's this year, a 4th this year, and a 3rd next year.

That leaves us with one round without a pick, next years #3..

I just wouldn't do it this soon. It would have to be draft day...or day before.

During this silly workout season, if Griffin OR Luck got hurt in a serious way, we'd be holding a very expensive #2 pick that wouldn't be worth what we had in it.

Yes no need to commit to anything until the time frame you mentioned, a lot is going to happen between now and the draft.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Technically it's 2 first round picks since we are swapping 4 for 2.

I think you put too much value on draft picks and not enough value on quarterback.

No, I value a franchise qb highly. I think both first rounders, the high fourth, and next years second is plenty to move up two spots. Plus, from the Rams perspective they get one of the players they need- Kalil or Blackmon- something they won't get with the Washington deal.

@cribbs-is-the-man said:

3 First rounders AND a second!?! You are nuts..

Technically it's 2 first round picks since we are swapping 4 for 2.

I think you put too much value on draft picks and not enough value on quarterback.

@mr.-t said:

Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.

1 first, 2 seconds and a fifth doesnt seem that bad really. IF (and yes its a big if) RGIII is the franchise QB, you are giving up pretty much 3 picks so we dont have to worry about a QB for the next 10 years (5th rounders are usually crap shoots, not a big a deal).. I do it in a heartbeat.. We'd still have 2 firsts, a 3rd, two 4ths, and then the 6th and 7th rounders this year, thats plenty. Plus, I think FAs would be much more likely to come to Cleveland with RGIII there..

@badnewsbrowns said:

Our 4 and 22 this year makes us a far more favorable option. In the end if it comes down to 4,22,37 and next years one I don't think asking for some Rams lower round picks in return is out of the question.

3 First rounders AND a second!?! You are nuts..

@mr.-t said:

Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.

one of those biggest needs happen to be at QB. we're not winning anything till we solidify that position.

@kshutchins said:

I don't have time to scroll back up and see if someone has already posted this from National Football Authority Senior writer Bear Heiser regarding RG3 according to a "League source:"

"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.

Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."

Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.

"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.

Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."

That leaves us with one round without a pick, next years #3..

I just wouldn't do it this soon. It would have to be draft day...or day before.

During this silly workout season, if Griffin OR Luck got hurt in a serious way, we'd be holding a very expensive #2 pick that wouldn't be worth what we had in it.

@jason-j said:

I really don't have a limit per se. I suppose it could get into the land of the ridiculous. But 4/22/37 + next years 3 doesn't scare me. I'd start to get nervous if you're looking at 3 #1s. But I don't think it'll get that far.

I look at it this way, regardless of who else they draft, if the Browns land a "franchise quarterback" in 2012, it's be best draft they've had in 20 years. So, what else really matters at that point?

-jj

Thanks- but if what I heard on ESPN is true tonight,- Redskins 2 first rounders + two other picks, it may well get into the land of the ridiculous real fast.

What "else" could matter is, assuming they can re-sign Hillis is who's he going to throw the ball to? The "experts" say Little is a nice #2 wr. So I'd also appreciate your take on the state of the Browns current WR (corpse). Pun intended- I think you can figure out my take on them.

MHO if we give up the ranch to get RGIII, he'd better be more than just "pretty good" like Flacco is, or Kosar was. I want upper echelon HOF- the next Farve, Montana, Elway, Marino, or (Peyton) Manning- anything less isn't worth it. OTOH, if we get that level of player- it really doesn't matter what we're giving up to get him.

PS- I don't text.

-jj

@hoorta said:

JJ I asked you this by PM, so I'll post it here instead. I know you're extremely high on RGIII. But every player has a max limit- so what's your opinion on just how much the Browns should give up to land him?

I really don't have a limit per se. I suppose it could get into the land of the ridiculous. But 4/22/37 + next years 3 doesn't scare me. I'd start to get nervous if you're looking at 3 #1s. But I don't think it'll get that far.

I look at it this way, regardless of who else they draft, if the Browns land a "franchise quarterback" in 2012, it's be best draft they've had in 20 years. So, what else really matters at that point?

-jj

@louisville-slugger said:

Who is grading Griffin that high? There is no way he is grading out better then Eli, Rivers, or Ben

Going 6-10 and trading all of our picks away would be a fail. If we had the #2 pick then fine but if you are going to lose 3-4 potential starters you are better off drafting a QB next year.

Everyone. Scouts, coaches, agents, you name it. Most NFL teams use an 8 point scale to rate prospects. Manning and Roethlisberger were 6.6's and 6.7's across the board. Anything above 6.5 is a guy you figure is going to become a starter in the NFL. Anything above a 7.0, you're projecting a potential All-Pro.

Both Manning and Roethlisberger had huge question marks coming out of college. Manning didn't have a great arm, Ben played in the MAC - AND didn't have much of an arm. Rivers was labeled as immature and may have trouble dealing with pressure (sounds right to me).

With a guy like Griffin, you're looking at 7.5's and 7.6's from all corners of the NFL. That's a huge difference. Basically what that means is people who are paid to find faults with players can't find a single thing that isn't circumstantial: i.e. He hasn't spent much time under center, or he's never worked in a rhythm passing offense.

Physically and mentally, the guy has no holes.

This isn't Ryan Leaf with 5 red flags and big arm. This isn't Jamarcus Russell coming out of LSU with a monster arm and little else. This is a completely different player.

It really makes little difference what the Browns do. RGIII is going to change whatever franchise he goes to. They can do the deal or wish they did.

But if I'm Tom Heckert, and I have that guy two picks away, while sitting on an extra 1st round pick, and I let some other team leapfrog me to draft him... I turn in my resignation the next morning, no questions.

-jj

Going 6-10 and trading all of our picks away would be a fail. If we had the #2 pick then fine but if you are going to lose 3-4 potential starters you are better off drafting a QB next year.

or that because colt is from the same system and conference that there will no improvement?

i dont recall ever seeing colt throw a football like griffen can.....even if they are starting from the same place, professionally, griffen has so many more physical tools at his disposal. its called potential, something colt lacks in comparison.

@louisville-slugger said:

You do realize in 2004 Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and Matt Shaub were all drafted right. Im sorry but RG3 is a 2nd rounder on that list.

RG3 has some good traits but if it wasnt for Glam Newton Rg3 probably is a mid to late 1st round draft pick. People fall in love with what was hot the prior year and since a scrambling QB put up good numbers last year, this kid can do the same. P.S. the Panthers won 6 games last season.

Before saying he isnt just a scrambling QB remember Colt McCoy put up similar #s in college and hes just a product of the Big 12 and the spread, right? Rg3 can throw the deep ball, thats nice but with out any draft picks whos going to catch it? Is Little known to beat anyone deep? Massaquoi? Norwood?

RG3 is a good kid and I hate to put him down but lets keep things into perspective

I'm sorry... Stop reading college stats. They will lie to you.

Watch the game film. He whole games. There isn't a single one of those guys that had the assembled game tape that RGIII has.

Roethlisberger and Manning were average prospects - and Rivers was a notch below that.

Schaub's not even in the conversation.

It's not even a close call.

-jj

It wouldn't have been close.

@jason-j said:

All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.

That's why you make the deal.

-jj

You do realize in 2004 Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and Matt Shaub were all drafted right. Im sorry but RG3 is a 2nd rounder on that list.

RG3 has some good traits but if it wasnt for Glam Newton Rg3 probably is a mid to late 1st round draft pick. People fall in love with what was hot the prior year and since a scrambling QB put up good numbers last year, this kid can do the same. P.S. the Panthers won 6 games last season.

Before saying he isnt just a scrambling QB remember Colt McCoy put up similar #s in college and hes just a product of the Big 12 and the spread, right? Rg3 can throw the deep ball, thats nice but with out any draft picks whos going to catch it? Is Little known to beat anyone deep? Massaquoi? Norwood?

RG3 is a good kid and I hate to put him down but lets keep things into perspective

@jason-j said:

All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.

That's why you make the deal.

-jj

JJ I asked you this by PM, so I'll post it here instead. I know you're extremely high on RGIII. But every player has a max limit- so what's your opinion on just how much the Browns should give up to land him?

@hoorta said:

Come on Gip- he did wear #10 in college. Sure would have to hope he turns out better than Quinn.

Umm, you did note the little laughing smiley face in the post. That was supposed to signify that my post was an attempt at humor. Its OK, you'll catch on someday .