I know a lot of you are looking for information on how the combine changed certain player's draft stock. Well the guys from sportsmasher.com just released an interesting article which is an NFL Draft Post Combine Stock Watch. They also have a post on the site discussing why we NEED to trade up and land RGIII. They are both good reads, check it out:

Why The Browns NEED To Trade Up For RGIII

Post Combine NFL Draft Stock Watch

@choco said:

the values of picks are increased relative to real money maybe. where you fail, again, is that the chart is a tool to gauge relative values of picks with other pick. there is no fucking point system for a 50mil dollar contract as opposed to 30 million.

is the practical value of the picks increased? absolutely. there is no reason to update the chart based on changes to the CBA, because picks weren't added or taken away. the cost of the contract (which, btw, changes every year) only pertains to pick value when reviewing the cap for room. under your logic, the chart would need updated after every cap increase.

no wonder foreigners dont like football. damn sport is too complicated for 75% of americans as well.

Well, I suspect that the financial intracacies of say English soccer are probably worse than those for the NFL. Those players can go off and play on the Continent, or even here in the MLS, or in S. America etc., all while under contract with their English team.

I also think this Value chart should be free of monetary considerations. Like I have done in my other thread...I think it should be based just on what you can project the quality of the player will turn out to be, not on how much you have to pay them.

OK, sure, maybe in the past...or even maybe in the future, the #2 overall pick's financial package may entitle him to monetary compensation equal to the #4 plus the #22 plus yada yada yada...Who gives a flying fadoodle except the f**king team owners?

I want to know what the likelihood is of getting a Pro Bowl/All Pro/Hall of Fame player at each of those spots. Again noting my other thread, it seems that you are almost just as likely to get a ProBowler/Hall of Famer at 4 as you are at 1.

That is why I am opposed to spending much on RGIII to move up.

Our #22 pick can turn into a Pro Bowler...but not if we don't have a #22.

is the practical value of the picks increased? absolutely. there is no reason to update the chart based on changes to the CBA, because picks weren't added or taken away. the cost of the contract (which, btw, changes every year) only pertains to pick value when reviewing the cap for room. under your logic, the chart would need updated after every cap increase.

no wonder foreigners dont like football. damn sport is too complicated for 75% of americans as well.

@kerrigan91 said:

The draft chart hasn't been altered for the new CBA yet. It's not entirely accurate. The value of the top picks have increased, since there isn't as much of a financial obligation to the top picks. It will be a couple years before the values correct themselves.

good point, I actually considered this and I looked into some. The scale will probably change some but the actual point differentials wont change too much. It's true that the first pick is more valuable but so are all the other top 10 picks. It will change some though

@kerrigan91 said:

I never suggested that. But even as an informal device, the values are off because of the rookie wage scale. The first pick is now more valuable because it's not as much of a financial obligation, and so on down the line.

Picks are worth more now that there is a hard rookie cap.

OK, I thought I must have missed the part of the negotiations where the draft chart valuation was being discussed.

Yes, I can understand the teams of the NFL wanting some kind of "gauge" for comparing the relative value of their draft picks

....but I agree, this chart seem way off to me. Even under this unofficial gauge it should not cost a team a #22 overall pick to move up only 2 slots.

I think history would tell us that the #2,3,4 overall picks are nearly as valuable as the #1 pick.

@the-gipper said:

That brings up an interesting point: Does the NFL have a Stepien Rule? How far into the future are you allowed to trade your draft picks?

Is an interesting question, but the NFL certainly doesn't have the same rule as the NBA (which prohibits trading consecutive #1's).

Could just fall under the NFL's review of all trades.

@the-gipper said:

Why would this draft value chart be an item to even be negotiated under the CBA? As I understand the theory, it is merely an informal internal device used by clubs to determine relative value of draft pick where a trade is negotiated. Some clubs may want no part of this "unofficial" device. Why would you think it was being institutionalized?

I never suggested that. But even as an informal device, the values are off because of the rookie wage scale. The first pick is now more valuable because it's not as much of a financial obligation, and so on down the line.

Picks are worth more now that there is a hard rookie cap.

@kerrigan91 said:

The draft chart hasn't been altered for the new CBA yet. It's not entirely accurate. The value of the top picks have increased, since there isn't as much of a financial obligation to the top picks. It will be a couple years before the values correct themselves.

Why would this draft value chart be an item to even be negotiated under the CBA? As I understand the theory, it is merely an informal internal device used by clubs to determine relative value of draft pick where a trade is negotiated. Some clubs may want no part of this "unofficial" device. Why would you think it was being institutionalized?

Zombo said:

You would have to trade 1,500 Mr. Irrelevants to move up and get Luck.

Zombo

That brings up an interesting point: Does the NFL have a Stepien Rule? How far into the future are you allowed to trade your draft picks?

@jrb12711 said:

and you may be right, it's hard to say. They certainly have a history of being the ones trading down as opposed to going up

hardesty, pinky, taylor were all trade ups.

@the-gipper said:

Well, as I understand, the Browns want none of it....unless, like last year, they are on the side of receiving the "overpayment" vis a vis the chart. They are not willing to be the over payor.

and you may be right, it's hard to say. They certainly have a history of being the ones trading down as opposed to going up

@jrb12711 said:

well although I can respect your opinion, as I said this is how trades are determined on draft day. This isn't a pile of crap made by nerds, it's essential for trades to get done. I can understand not wanting to trade the other first round pick though, I'm still on the fence about it. Interestingly enough they talked about this chart this morning at the combine, and they mentioned exactly what i've said. However, McShay noted that it's probably going to have to exceed the value chart significantly for the trade to get done. Whether or not you think it's crazy, it's used.

Well, as I understand, the Browns want none of it....unless, like last year, they are on the side of receiving the "overpayment" vis a vis the chart. They are not willing to be the over payor.

@the-gipper said:

The chart is just something put out by some nerd who was probably an extra on The Big Bang Theory.

In other words, to me, it is pile of crap. I am not willing to have the Browns give up their #22 first round pick in order to move up 2 spots, even if some stupid chart says that it is worth it to do so.

That #22 pick represents a valuable, irreplaceable commodity: a genuine football player.

In the past here are some of the players that have been drafted at position #22:

Percy Harvin

DeMaryius Thomas

Manny Lawson

Will Allen

Tyrone Poole

Andre Rison

Lorenzo White

William "The Refrigerator" Perry

Jack Reynolds

and Hanford Dixon

As long as we stay away from a QB we could do quite well sticking at that spot.

Since 1967 there have been 3 QBs taken with the #22 pick: Brady Quinn, Rex Grossman, J.P. Losman.

Nothing to write home about (though Grossman did take a team to a Super Bowl)

Best not to go there.

well although I can respect your opinion, as I said this is how trades are determined on draft day. This isn't a pile of crap made by nerds, it's essential for trades to get done. I can understand not wanting to trade the other first round pick though, I'm still on the fence about it. Interestingly enough they talked about this chart this morning at the combine, and they mentioned exactly what i've said. However, McShay noted that it's probably going to have to exceed the value chart significantly for the trade to get done. Whether or not you think it's crazy, it's used.

In other words, to me, it is pile of crap. I am not willing to have the Browns give up their #22 first round pick in order to move up 2 spots, even if some stupid chart says that it is worth it to do so.

That #22 pick represents a valuable, irreplaceable commodity: a genuine football player.

In the past here are some of the players that have been drafted at position #22:

Percy Harvin

DeMaryius Thomas

Manny Lawson

Will Allen

Tyrone Poole

Andre Rison

Lorenzo White

William "The Refrigerator" Perry

Jack Reynolds

and Hanford Dixon

As long as we stay away from a QB we could do quite well sticking at that spot.

Since 1967 there have been 3 QBs taken with the #22 pick: Brady Quinn, Rex Grossman, J.P. Losman.

Nothing to write home about (though Grossman did take a team to a Super Bowl)

Best not to go there.

Much of the way things go on draft day will depend heavily on this regimes true gut feelings about rather danny mccoy can improve and who they may want to bring in from FA to compete against him..

This draft will be vital in building the browns both now and for the future so lets hope they get it right..

While i did not see the progression i had hoped to see from colt mccoy (or the offense in general) last season doesnt mean colt or shurmur suck it was just a bad year with ridiculously ill timed circumstances making it unfair if not impossible to truly evaluate everything at face value..

This year however evaluation as a fan will be different with no new systems other than tweaks or lockouts impeding this young teams progress and i expect to see some serious progress from both the coaching aspect and the players execution on both sides of the ball and special teams as well..

For now i am just hoping that shurmur isnt the next eric mangini when it comes to making bad in game decisions on critical downs with the game hanging in the balance..

No guts no glory!

perhaps we'll stop seeing some of the re-fucking-tarded trade scenarios that warrant a new thread every week.

@tour2ma said:

Ditto... What I had not seen was the scatter plot of actual draft swap values. Found that pretty interesting...

Where'd you read about the QB involvement? Is that just a result of ranking the impact each solitary position has on team success with QB now clearly at the top of the heap?

Exactly.

Yeah- gosh, and I can't remember where I read that anymore- but if it involves a top 5 pick, add 500 points to what you have to offer.

Where'd you read about the QB involvement? Is that just a result of ranking the impact each solitary position has on team success with QB now clearly at the top of the heap?

@jrb12711 said:

Do they? I asked at least 10-15 people to really explain this to me and no one really could so I looked it all up. I think people know it exists but don't understand how it works.

I knew about the chart- and that's why in another thread I pointed out if the rumor of what the Redskins are potentially willing to give up to get RGIII are true- that's flat-out nuts.

The second pick is worth 2,600 points- the Redskins 1st, 2nd, & 3rd are worth 2,360. Toss in a mid first rounder next year (or more) add another 1,000+ to the mix. BTW, if the trade up involves a qb there's bonus points allowed to the team trading down- and I suppose it would depend on the slot. If you want to go strictly by the chart, the Redskins would (hypothetically) be giving the Rams enough value that should be enough to make a very solid offer instead to move all the way up to #1 (3,000 points) to snag Andrew Luck.

I didn't see the question. I could have pointed you in the right direction.

@ballpeen said:

I think everybody pretty much knows about the chart, but thanks for the effort.

Do they? I asked at least 10-15 people to really explain this to me and no one really could so I looked it all up. I think people know it exists but don't understand how it works.