@mr.-t said:

The question is will H&H blow away all of their work from previous trades on one player.

Blown knee Rg3 is not worth the risk

Ummm...okay well RGIII has blown his knee a couple of years ago. He's a track runner as well so I'm sure his knee is back to normal. Everyone is acting like he blown his knee two weeks before Combine. It' really not that serious. Even the greatest has injured themselves before but has made an incredible comeback. For example, (I know this example is about basketball...but) look at Kobe Bryant. He broke his nose, he has a bad wrist, and he had bad knees (until he went to Germany to have the pain taken away) and he is playing one of the best games he has played in his 16 season with the Lakers.

If Kobe can still play with injuries, then RGIII can play with a blown knee that happend years ago! Everyone just needs to give RGBIII a try and let him prove to everyone what he is made of.

@mr.-t said:

This statement is coming from someone who cannot decide what team to root for.

Oh brother, you need to go watch that shitty hilight video some rg3 knob sucker posted on friday. It made RG look like Brady Queen. He was way off target unless the WR blew past the safety which only happened one time. other than that he was not even close on more than half of his passes. IMO and I know you dont want to hear it RG is another over hyped QB. I'm not apologizing because I have my doubts over this move.

If you are so sure about your analysis of his talents then maybe the Browns or Bills should hire you as a talent scout. I'm sure they will enjoy the input coming from your D.I.D.

Listen, I'm not really a fan for trading up, but I hate it when people just find excuses to hate on the guy...kinda like you are right now.

Not trading up to get RG3 does not mean we're going to trade down and stockpile 5th round picks. To even use that as an argument completely discredits anything else you might say.

@jason-j said:

I really hate that logic.

Perhaps you just hate logic?

Who in the history of the draft nabbed 3-4 pro bowl players with a couple of first rounders and a second?

The Cleveland Browns...1978 Mattews and Newsome.

The Pittsburgh Steelers (1974 drafted 4 Hall of Famers).

Those are just off the top of my head. I suspect there were any number of others.

It just doesn't happen like that. You have a much Bette chance of drafting one long term starter and a couple of guys who hold a spot for a couple of seasons.

Even the Dallas Cowboys and their 33 (that's not a typo) picks over two years - on he heels of the Herschel Walker trade drafted only three multi Pro Bowlers*:

#9 in Round 2 in 1992 - Darren Woodson

#15 in Round 3 in 1991 - Erik Williams

#6 in Round 7 in 1991 - Leon Lett

*The Cowboys traded Minnesota's 1st round pick in the 1990 draft in combination with others to draft Emmitt Smith.

The rest were largely role players and short termers.

The success of Cowboys Dynasty in actuality, didn't have nearly as much to do with the cache of picks liberated from the Minnesota Vikings, as it had to do with the fact that they nabbed a legit star of a quarterback with their own pick in 1989, held on to a couple of pieces, and simply added some complementary players over the next couple of seasons.

OK, they got lucky, just like any number of other teams got unlucky. Troy Aikman could have turned out to be Jeff George or Rick Mirer or Heath Shuler.

Oh, and you might get lucky and trade up to draft a linebacker only to have the Bengals take him one pick earlier and get stuck drafting one of he most durable and effective running backs in the history of football.

-jj

@hoorta said:

1) H&H acquired more picks so when the time was right, they would have the ammunition to trade up for a Franchise QB. They inquired about Sam Bradford, forget that one?

2) They said they were going to acquire offensive playmakers. A Franchise quarterback happens to top that list.

3A) Great- does that go for Andrew Luck too? If we trade down far enough we can probably get every pick in the fifth and sixth round- and pray the next Tom Brady will be there for us.

3B) A one man band may not get you to the Super Bowl every year, but the key ingredient of getting to multiple Super Bowls is a stud qb. The Colts went from 10-6 to 2-14 with\without Manning so I'd say he was worth at least six wins.

We will know soon enough wont we?

It is silly arguing over this. I know what I have seen on tape and IMO guys like RG dont go to far in the NFL especially when they cannot throw a laser beam pass under pressure and into tight coverage. Accuracy and a good arm go a long way. And in my opinion Luck if healthy will go a lot further in his career.

@bills-n-browns-fan said:

You just compared RG3 to Tim Tebow...please be quiet and let the adults speak.

This statement is coming from someone who cannot decide what team to root for.

Oh brother, you need to go watch that shitty hilight video some rg3 knob sucker posted on friday. It made RG look like Brady Queen. He was way off target unless the WR blew past the safety which only happened one time. other than that he was not even close on more than half of his passes. IMO and I know you dont want to hear it RG is another over hyped QB. I'm not apologizing because I have my doubts over this move.

If you are so sure about your analysis of his talents then maybe the Browns or Bills should hire you as a talent scout. I'm sure they will enjoy the input coming from your D.I.D.

@mr.-t said:

And yes I would trade RG for multiple draft picks. I am among the few on here who do not believe that a one man band will get you to the SB. you need several great players.

one of which would be peyton manning, right? lol....

@mr.-t said:

What I am saying is don't be suprised if this is what the Browns FO is doing. All you have to do is look at how the FO has made trades before and during the draft the past 2 years to aquire more picks.

Also didn't Heckert and Holmgren state right after this season that they needed to get 2 good WR's for the offense to work? I don't see us changing our offense to copy what Denver has done with Tebow, and in my opinion if we draft Rg3 that is what we will have to do. But wait! We still dont have any super stud wide receivers so the Rg3 left Rg right and RG up the middle will only work for a short period of time.

And yes I would trade RG for multiple draft picks. I am among the few on here who do not believe that a one man band will get you to the SB. you need several great players.

1) H&H acquired more picks so when the time was right, they would have the ammunition to trade up for a Franchise QB. They inquired about Sam Bradford, forget that one?

2) They said they were going to acquire offensive playmakers. A Franchise quarterback happens to top that list.

3A) Great- does that go for Andrew Luck too? If we trade down far enough we can probably get every pick in the fifth and sixth round- and pray the next Tom Brady will be there for us.

3B) A one man band may not get you to the Super Bowl every year, but the key ingredient of getting to multiple Super Bowls is a stud qb. The Colts went from 10-6 to 2-14 with\without Manning so I'd say he was worth at least six wins.

@mr.-t said:

Is this supposed to make me change my opinion? Sorry Charlie, it only works for the follow the leader pc crowd.

You just compared RG3 to Tim Tebow...please be quiet and let the adults speak.

@bills-n-browns-fan said:

Is this supposed to make me change my opinion? Sorry Charlie, it only works for the follow the leader pc crowd.

@mr.-t said:

What I am saying is don't be suprised if this is what the Browns FO is doing. All you have to do is look at how the FO has made trades before and during the draft the past 2 years to aquire more picks.

Also didn't Heckert and Holmgren state right after this season that they needed to get 2 good WR's for the offense to work? I don't see us changing our offense to copy what Denver has done with Tebow, and in my opinion if we draft Rg3 that is what we will have to do. But wait! We still dont have any super stud wide receivers so the Rg3 left Rg right and RG up the middle will only work for a short period of time.

And yes I would trade RG for multiple draft picks. I am among the few on here who do not believe that a one man band will get you to the SB. you need several great players.

@hoorta said:

You want to trade away a potential franchise qb after we have him? Turn in your fantasy football membership.

Go look at the teams that have won multiple Super Bowls- and there's one common thread- a super-stud qb, something McCoy is not, and highly doubtful will ever be.

What I am saying is don't be suprised if this is what the Browns FO is doing. All you have to do is look at how the FO has made trades before and during the draft the past 2 years to aquire more picks.

Also didn't Heckert and Holmgren state right after this season that they needed to get 2 good WR's for the offense to work? I don't see us changing our offense to copy what Denver has done with Tebow, and in my opinion if we draft Rg3 that is what we will have to do. But wait! We still dont have any super stud wide receivers so the Rg3 left Rg right and RG up the middle will only work for a short period of time.

And yes I would trade RG for multiple draft picks. I am among the few on here who do not believe that a one man band will get you to the SB. you need several great players.

@miktoxic said:

has anyone ever thought that the browns might not even want RGlll and will do a patriots and trade down 2 spot get their guy and pick up 2 xtra picks. HA!!

Not saying it will happen, but that's what Holmgren did in Seattle when he had two firsts (even better than what Cleveland has now) and Vick was in the draft.

@mr.-t said:

You just mad my point to my smoke screen assumption. Look at all of the picks that the Browns could land by grabbing Rg3 and trading him to another team.

You want to trade away a potential franchise qb after we have him? Turn in your fantasy football membership.

Go look at the teams that have won multiple Super Bowls- and there's one common thread- a super-stud qb, something McCoy is not, and highly doubtful will ever be.

You gotta admit its funny though. If someone wants RGIII he's a sure thing and the picks we lose are toss ups. If someone doesn't want RGIII he's not that good and the picks we lose are potential pro bowlers

@hoorta said:

Dead wrong T. There's two quarterback starved teams below us, and a couple others way down in the drafting order willing and able to give up silly amounts of picks and\or players to move up to #2. It's not a smokescreen.

However, in the trade up derby, the Browns hold the high cards- it's up to H&H to decide how many of them they want, or need to play. Blackmon\Kalil and our #22 pick are two high trump cards no other team can match.

You just mad my point to my smoke screen assumption. Look at all of the picks that the Browns could land by grabbing Rg3 and trading him to another team.

@jason-j said:

I really hate that logic. Who in the history of the draft nabbed 3-4 pro bowl players with a couple of first rounders and a second? It just doesn't happen like that. You have a much Better chance of drafting one long term starter and a couple of guys who hold a spot for a couple of seasons.

-jj

I know you said first two rounds- but the Steelers did draft 4 Hall of Famers in ONE draft, 1974. Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and Webster. The odds of that happening again before the Second Coming are about zero.

Any team that can repeat the feat should be in line to win 4 Super Bowls, just like they did.

@mr.-t said:

If nobody above us wants RG3 then we don't have to make any trades that is if we want him at #4. I could see this whole thing as a smoke screen or even for a bigger trade with another team after we obtain the pick.

Dead wrong T. There's two quarterback starved teams below us, and a couple others way down in the drafting order willing and able to give up silly amounts of picks and\or players to move up to #2. It's not a smokescreen.

However, in the trade up derby, the Browns hold the high cards- it's up to H&H to decide how many of them they want, or need to play. Blackmon\Kalil and our #22 pick are two high trump cards no other team can match.

@poeticg said:

The whole thing for me is this: If the Browns swap firsts with the Rams and get a third and fourth out of the deal, it is still a good deal for the Rams. The own the second pick, they don't Need Andrew Luck or RG3(the consensus #1 & #2 in the draft this year). They are most likely targeting Matt Kalil or Justin Blackmon, if they trade with the Browns then they are guaranteed one of those players. If they decided to swap with another team- then the players they most covet will most assuredly be gone by the time they are on the clock. So it's like this- They think they hold all the cards but in reality we have them by the balls. Trade with us and you'll get a couple extra picks and can sleep well at night and know that one of your guys will be there when you're on the clock, or, screw us and your guy is ours.

If nobody above us wants RG3 then we dont have to make any trades that is if we want him at #4. I could see this whole thing as a smoke screen or even for a bigger trade with another team after we obtain the pick.

@the-gipper said:

RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.

But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.

Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.

I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.

I really hate that logic. Who in the history of the draft nabbed 3-4 pro bowl players with a couple of first rounders and a second? It just doesn't happen like that. You have a much Bette chance of drafting one long term starter and a couple of guys who hold a spot for a couple of seasons.

Even the Dallas Cowboys and their 33 (that's not a typo) picks over two years - on he heels of the Herschel Walker trade drafted only three multi Pro Bowlers*:

#9 in Round 2 in 1992 - Darren Woodson

#15 in Round 3 in 1991 - Erik Williams

#6 in Round 7 in 1991 - Leon Lett

*The Cowboys traded Minnesota's 1st round pick in the 1990 draft in combination with others to draft Emmitt Smith.

The rest were largely role players and short termers.

The success of Cowboys Dynasty in actuality, didn't have nearly as much to do with the cache of picks liberated from the Minnesota Vikings, as it had to do with the fact that they nabbed a legit star of a quarterback with their own pick in 1989, held on to a couple of pieces, and simply added some complementary players over the next couple of seasons.

Oh, and you might get lucky and trade up to draft a linebacker only to have the Bengals take him one pick earlier and get stuck drafting one of he most durable and effective running backs in the history of football.

-jj