A 4-3 end is always going against a tackle,and is undersized relying on his speed. derp.

@badnewsbrowns said:

I also said all things being equal I believe we would be at a disadvantage, so no I don't think it's the players not the system.

I don't think you can compare Otto Graham Browns to today's game.

Historically,say the past 25 years our division has been won by physical line play,tough defense and vertical passing.

We seem to be going with finesse line play and horizontal passing.

I just don't like the idea of relying on speed rushing ends in a 4-3. If we should ever play a critical game in the late months of the year and it's snowy/raining our speed rushing ends are useless.

Maybe it's a little premature to worry about that.

Why would speed rushing ends be more useless than speed rushing LBs in the 3-4?

I don't know if it is a little premature to worry about that, but it may be a little absurd to worry about that.

I don't think you can compare Otto Graham Browns to today's game.

Historically,say the past 25 years our division has been won by physical line play,tough defense and vertical passing.

We seem to be going with finesse line play and horizontal passing.

I just don't like the idea of relying on speed rushing ends in a 4-3. If we should ever play a critical game in the late months of the year and it's snowy/raining our speed rushing ends are useless.

Maybe it's a little premature to worry about that.

@jason-j said:

The west coast offense was built in Cincinnati... Just for the record.

-jj

Actually, for the record, it was built in Cleveland. The WCO is essentially the same system that Paul Brown and Otto Graham ran for years.

@badnewsbrowns said:

It worked in Green Bay almost 20 years ago.

In Green Bay Holmgren was just the coach.

With a hall of fame QB and hall of fame defensive end any system will work.

Then what you are actually saying is that it is not the system, but the personell?

And similar climates different competition, the Packers were not facing the Steelers and Ravens for 25% of their schedule.

Then what the Browns need is better defensive players. Better LBs, better DBs, better DL. It doesn't matter whether they play 3-4 or 4-3. It matters if you have killers on your team...and a coach that can do the job....like LeBeau. Jauron is pretty good. Him running the 4-3 is the least of our worries.

@cgi_ram said:

I got to say, as a Rams fan, this sounds so much like our board when he was with us. I made these signatures back then and thought I'd share them with you guys;

Oh man, that is so hilarious.

@cgi_ram said:

I got to say, as a Rams fan, this sounds so much like our board when he was with us. I made these signatures back then and thought I'd share them with you guys;

That shit is priceless!!!!

@b86b said:

I think Holmgren's style might win, but Shurmurs won't. He has no creativity or innovation at all, it seems we are the most vanilla team in the league on both sides of the ball.

I got to say, as a Rams fan, this sounds so much like our board when he was with us. I made these signatures back then and thought I'd share them with you guys;

@badnewsbrowns said:

My point is even with the right players, all things being equal talent wise across the division Holmgren's style won't win.

I think Holmgren's style might win, but Shurmurs won't. He has no creativity or innovation at all, it seems we are the most vanilla team in the league on both sides of the ball.

come back when ya stop whining like a girl.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Holmgren's philosophy will never work here in Cleveland.

Bill Walsh designed the WCO to play to Montana's strengths.

Colt McCoy is no Joe Montana, to win in the AFC North you need a QB with an arm to throw through the winter winds coming off the lake. It's not 70 degrees here year round like in San Fran.

Yes because it was never windy in San Francisco

Yet another dope drinking a case of Epic Fail

@hoorta said:

For the record Favre grew up in Gulfport Mississippi.

And people adjust over time. If McCoy sticks around I don't expect him to keep wearing the Ninja mask he has been wearing in December.

@harry-buffalo said:

Same goes for strength. Everyone gets weaker and slower in the cold. The only thing cold truly effects are people who didn't grow up playing football in the cold.

For the record Favre grew up in Gulfport Mississippi.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Weather is the great neutralizer of speed. Playing a 4-3 defense based on undersized speed rushing defensive ends in Cleveland is just flat out dumb. Just ask the Colts how it worked out for them in the winter months,can't blame it all on Manning.

-jj

-jj

@badnewsbrowns said:

Based on the history of the division.

It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Read my previous post I've already made the points.

History of the division is not a point, cause when the hell in our division did a team come in and run a WCO and fail, when did a team run a 4-3 defense and fail?

It's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Read my previous post I've already made the points.

@badnewsbrowns said:

My point is even with the right players, all things being equal talent wise across the division Holmgren's style won't win.

How do you know. What undeniable proof are you basing your decision on. Cause it seems like it's based off of one season without training camp. There wasn't some other team in our division who has tried this before and failed.

With players who are good and suited for the system (which makes them perform better than they would else where) will beat other teams regardless of the system.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Let me know when we get the right players then. Until then this system is at a disadvantage in our division.

It would be in a disadvantage in most systems. Both Steelers and Raven have the players for their systems. Every year it just the matter up signing a FA or two and making smart draft picks. The Bengals also have MOST of their players in place. They could stand to upgrade in a position or two on both sides of the ball. The Browns have several players they still need for their system.