@the-gipper said:

Yet, that is why some have said we should sign Donovan McNabb, for that same purpose.

(they said that expecially when it was thought that we might have RGIII here)

True. I wouldn't be a fan of bringing McNabb in to this situation however. Feeley knows he's a back up... and he's been a darn good one for a long time. He can get Colt prepared to function within this offense. And, if all else fails, A.J. would be a great role model for how you become a quality backup in this league, rack up $15-20 million over the next decade and a half, and retire relatively pain free and with all your faculties. It ain't a bad living.

I'm not sure McNabb is at the point in his career where he's accepted that he's a back up. Sure if you had a rookie quarterback, you might bring McNabb in to mentor, if for no other reason, than he may have to start those first few games. But with an incumbent quarterback with two years' experience, McNabb just doesn't fit.

-jj

@jason-j said:

AJ is a pro. He's a good teammate, and an excellent student. And he knows Reid/Shurmur's West Coast Offense as well as any human being on the planet. He has some of the same physical limitations as McCoy. Although, he's a bit bigger, he's never had a top flight arm, and has relied on his mobility at times - as limited as it may be.

You can learn all you can from a coach or coordinator. But you'll never be able to recreate the knowledge of being on the field, the practice field, and the film room as a quarterback. AJ's been doing that for a decade.

-jj

Yet, that is why some have said we should sign Donovan McNabb, for that same purpose.

(they said that expecially when it was thought that we might have RGIII here)

@the-gipper said:

Explain yourself.

AJ is a pro. He's a good teammate, and an excellent student. And he knows Reid/Shurmur's West Coast Offense as well as any human being on the planet. He has some of the same physical limitations as McCoy. Although, he's a bit bigger, he's never had a top flight arm, and has relied on his mobility at times - as limited as it may be.

You can learn all you can from a coach or coordinator. But you'll never be able to recreate the knowledge of being on the field, the practice field, and the film room as a quarterback. AJ's been doing that for a decade.

-jj

I got a text from Lumbergh the minute he signed.

Zombo

@jason-j said:

Should he end up in Cleveland, AJ Feely might be the best thing that ever happened to Colt McCoy.

-jj

Explain yourself.

-jj

@the-gipper said:

This was a FA list from earlier. I know some have signed, but what has happened with these "lesser tier" QB free agents? List if you know who they may have signed with.

Brian Hoyer (NE) - Restricted

That's the only name on this list that's interesting. It would cost a 2nd round pick and might make some sense.

@jason-j said:

I was making the comparison simply for effect. I even said as much. My point was only that of Cleveland's patron saints is to the rest of the sporting world, historically irrelevant. Only in Cleveland (or among Cleveland fans more accurately), is his career held in such high esteem.

OH, I suspect it probably happens in any city that hasn't won in a long time.

To the rest of the world, the guy was a marginal, undersized quarterback who had a couple of good seasons 30 years ago... One very good. He peaked too late and declined too early. Only in Cleveland does that make you a legend.

Ditto from above...but, in a sense you can say the same exact things about BK that you said about Sipe (except that BK actually did win some playoff games)

And I'm not saying that anything is wrong with that. I just have a problem with, when discussing top quarterbacks or quarterbacking characteristics, that people want to throw his name in the mix. He doesn't belong in the discussion.

The discussion about what?

-jj

Chris Redman (ATL)

Derek Anderson (CAR)

Caleb Hanie (CHI)

Josh McCown (CHI)

Shaun Hill (DET)

Drew Stanton (DET)..I know Stanton was with Jets but now wants out.

Brady Quinn (DEN)

David Garrard (FA)

Chad Pennington (FA)

Jake Delhomme (HOU)

Jeff Garcia (HOU)

Dan Orlovsky (IND)

Luke McCown (JAC)

Chad Henne (MIA) Jags?

JP Losman (MIA)

Sage Rosenfels (MIA)

David Carr (NYG)

Mark Brunell (NYJ)

Kevin O'Connell (NYJ)

Kyle Boller (OAK)

Vince Young (PHI)

Charlie Batch (PIT)

Dennis Dixon (PIT)

Byron Leftwich (PIT)

Charlie Whitehurst (SEA)

Kellen Clemens (STL)

A.J. Feeley (STL)

Josh Johnson (TB)

Richard Bartel (ARZ) - Restricted

Max Hall (ARZ) - Exclusive Rights

Tyler Palko (KC) - Restricted

Brian Hoyer (NE) - Restricted

Chase Daniel (NO) - Restricted

To the rest of the world, the guy was a marginal, undersized quarterback who had a couple of good seasons 30 years ago... One very good. He peaked too late and declined too early. Only in Cleveland does that make you a legend.

And I'm not saying that anything is wrong with that. I just have a problem with, when discussing top quarterbacks or quarterbacking characteristics, that people want to throw his name in the mix. He doesn't belong in the discussion.

-jj

I'd like Blackmon, but I can see the logic behind Claiborne.

22 = Mike Adams, 37 = Sanu, 3rd rd = RB, Manny Lawson as a FA.

@tour2ma said:

I'll give it a shot...

Watch again and focus on his feet (moving, but not dancing) and his release (straight from the shoulder and gone). He bounces, he squares up and he gets the ball gone fast. Arm strength is good enough. And he's a natural at rolling and throwing on the run.

Experience-wise I'm not sure how you call 1-1/2 years of Div 1 play "lots of experience"??? His first two years he was a WR... and a pretty good one. His productivity despite a lack of experience is one of the more intriguing things about Ryan.

And then there's his running...

I'll close by saying I would not spend a round 1 on him. I was full on with him when he was a 3rd rounder, which is where he finished 2011 and even a 2nd where he paused briefly during his recent rise. Now some mocks have us taking him at #4...

Desperation is an ugly thing.

I heard Mike Mayock talking about him yesterday and his opinion was that he definitely has the ability to be a NFL franchise QB but that he was at least a year away from starting in the NFL. I don't want to see us spend the #22 or god forbid even the #4 on a guy who isn't good enough to play this year.

@jason-j said:

I didn't mean to imply that he didn't play for 7 or 8 years. He was only effective for 3 or 4 seasons - basically '78 through about half of '81. By mid way through the '81 season, he was throwing interceptions at a remarkable clip, including 6 in a 22 point loss to the Steelers. A fete he would actually duplicate two years later, this time in Pittsburgh. History is not kind to Brian Sipe... but Cleveland is.

My comparison to Scott Mitchell (he was who I referred to as one of the biggest free agent busts in history), was just to illustrate a point. Scott Mitchell is universally panned as a horrible decision for the Lions. But most people forget that he threw for 4300 yards and 32 TDs with just 12 picks in 1995, and took the Lions to the playoffs. They only seem to remember the abysmal game he had against Philadelphia when he got there. I just feel like at times, fans look at their players through unique lenses.

-jj

Comparing Sipe to Scott Mitchell is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. Sipe was able to read defenses and throw timing patterns Mitchell could not...Mitchell had no touch...Sipe had plenty. Sipe could actually throw a receiver open.

@jason-j said:

I just feel like at times, fans look at their players through unique lenses.

-jj

great piece of wisdom here....and something im also guity of. problem is, some GM's and personnel guys do the same.

@the-gipper said:

I think you are shortchanging Brian Sipe. First off, he was the Browns primary starting QB in 7 seasons: 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, and 83. He would have been primary in an 8th season as well in 1982 except he was injured and started only 6 games.

And as for his "legendary" season, he was named the NFL's MVP. He threw for over 4000 yards. Only 2 people in history ever did that before: Namath and Fouts. (Because of changes in the game, these "production" numbers get scewed. There were 11 4000 yard QBs in the NFL last year...you need to compare him to the competition of his era, not to the numbers of later QBs.) And Sipe was "productive" enough in his career to still be the Browns career leader in most QB categories, like yards and TDs....more than even Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar. (and yes, with Graham, the same concept applies...you can't really compare apples to apples when looking at raw numbers).

As for Sipe being a bust as a free agent. I don't know if that is true. He went to the USFL after 12 years with the Browns for the bucks. (the stats don't show up because for 2 years he was on the Taxi Squad and never saw the field). I believe he did fairly well with the New Jersey Generals the year he was there. Then he left for the Jacksonville Bulls where he concluded his 14 year career due to injury.

I didn't mean to imply that he didn't play for 7 or 8 years. He was only effective for 3 or 4 seasons - basically '78 through about half of '81. By mid way through the '81 season, he was throwing interceptions at a remarkable clip, including 6 in a 22 point loss to the Steelers. A fete he would actually duplicate two years later, this time in Pittsburgh. History is not kind to Brian Sipe... but Cleveland is.

My comparison to Scott Mitchell (he was who I referred to as one of the biggest free agent busts in history), was just to illustrate a point. Scott Mitchell is universally panned as a horrible decision for the Lions. But most people forget that he threw for 4300 yards and 32 TDs with just 12 picks in 1995, and took the Lions to the playoffs. They only seem to remember the abysmal game he had against Philadelphia when he got there. I just feel like at times, fans look at their players through unique lenses.

-jj

Colts will go with rookie Andrew Luck

Redskins will go with RGIII

Broncos will switch to Manning

Seahawks will go with Matt Flynn

....and it is possible that the Jags could end up with Tim Tebow, or not. And even if they get Tebow, he may merely end up in a QB competition with Blaine Gabbert and/or Chad Henne.

The Broncos need a QB so whatever trade they make for Tebow, I think they should get a potential backup for Manning in the deal (as, I think, other than Tebow, the Broncos don't have a backup QB at this point, do they?) and getting either Gabbert or Henne from the Jags makes some sense.

Every other team but those 4 or 5 are going with the guys they had last year:

Pats: Brady

Giants: E. Manning

Jets: Sanchez

Bills: Fitzpatrick

Eagles: Vick

Steelers: BR

Ravens: Flacco

Panthers: Newton

Falcons: Ryan

Bucs: Freeman

Dolphins: Matt Moore (only viable option at this point, unless they want Tebow)

Titans: Hasselback/Locker

Bengals: Dalton

Browns: McCoy

Lions: Stafford

Bears: Cutler

Packers: Rodgers

Vikings: Ponder

Chiefs: Cassell

Rams: Bradford

Saints: Brees

Texans: Schaub (or TJ Yates if Schaub injured)

Cowboys: Romo

Cardinals: Kolb

Chargers: Rivers

Raiders: Palmer

49ers: sticking with Alex Smith

So, I suspect that QB movement this year has actually been less than in most years. Its just that you have big name rookies coming in, one big name veteran moving, and one big name personality involved (Tebow) that make it sound like more than it is.

@the-gipper said:

Except of course Russell had any number of chances to rejuvenate his career and go to a place that would have been more nurturing.

I mean, figure this: Russell is today March 2012 only 27 years old. He is younger now than Brandon Wheedon is who is up to be drafted as a rookie this year. He would just be playing in his 6th season in the NFL in 2012.

If he was worth a shit he could try to come back and play right now.

He sure can if he was motivated enogh. But unfortunately he is not a self motivator or a leader as the scouting said accurately and he already got paid big time money. Infact there were a few scouts expecting oakland to take calvin johnson.

@1-more-season said:

I'm with you. I was not overly impresses with Tannehill other than his size. Not that he is not good but not sure he would be better than Colt. Along those same lines next year, Barkley is basically a Colt replica so we should stop that talk now.

I can't see Tannehill going anywhere near the 1st round. I think the 5 round might be about right.

@brownindian said:

JaMarcus Russell was said to be the QB with the most upside and physical tools. Also, It was pointed out that he was never a leader and always needed his seniors to help him. He would have had a very decent career if he had gone to a team with stable coaching. Unfortunately he landed up in Oakland. Remember - Lane Kiffin the then coach did not want JR. Something that we came to know after Al Davis fired him. Maybe Al Davis was right to fire Lane Kiffin, But Al DAvis siding with JR instead of Kiffin surely signals a franchise whose leaders only value physical tools to other intangibles. He was a bad fit for Oakland. Im sure JR would have had a decent career in say a place like Philadelphia or something.

Except of course Russell had any number of chances to rejuvenate his career and go to a place that would have been more nurturing.

I mean, figure this: Russell is today March 2012 only 27 years old. He is younger now than Brandon Wheedon is who is up to be drafted as a rookie this year. He would just be playing in his 6th season in the NFL in 2012.

If he was worth a shit he could try to come back and play right now.

@jason-j said:

One was a complete washout... Although did manage to win 7 more games than he lost or a career.

The other managed a productive three and a half year career, too bad it took him thirteen years to do it. Grabbed one division title, and fell off the map, after winning 2 more games than he lost as a starter.

The legend of Brian Sipe is so much better than the player himself. People forget that Sipe's legendary season wasn't even as productive as Scott Mitchell's '95 season with the Lions... And it's widely accepted that he was one of the biggest free agent busts in history.

-jj

I think you are shortchanging Brian Sipe. First off, he was the Browns primary starting QB in 7 seasons: 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, and 83. He would have been primary in an 8th season as well in 1982 except he was injured and started only 6 games.

And as for his "legendary" season, he was named the NFL's MVP. He threw for over 4000 yards. Only 2 people in history ever did that before: Namath and Fouts. (Because of changes in the game, these "production" numbers get scewed. There were 11 4000 yard QBs in the NFL last year...you need to compare him to the competition of his era, not to the numbers of later QBs.) And Sipe was "productive" enough in his career to still be the Browns career leader in most QB categories, like yards and TDs....more than even Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar. (and yes, with Graham, the same concept applies...you can't really compare apples to apples when looking at raw numbers).

As for Sipe being a bust as a free agent. I don't know if that is true. He went to the USFL after 12 years with the Browns for the bucks. (the stats don't show up because for 2 years he was on the Taxi Squad and never saw the field). I believe he did fairly well with the New Jersey Generals the year he was there. Then he left for the Jacksonville Bulls where he concluded his 14 year career due to injury.

@the-gipper said:

You mean like: Jamarcus Russell? He had an arm like Jagger and could make every throw. Did it help?

There is no absolute sure shot. You could bet the ranch on a guy like Andrew Luck and probably be right. But not for certain.

There has only ever been one Sure Thing:

JaMarcus Russell was said to be the QB with the most upside and physical tools. Also, It was pointed out that he was never a leader and always needed his seniors to help him. He would have had a very decent career if he had gone to a team with stable coaching. Unfortunately he landed up in Oakland. Remember - Lane Kiffin the then coach did not want JR. Something that we came to know after Al Davis fired him. Maybe Al Davis was right to fire Lane Kiffin, But Al DAvis siding with JR instead of Kiffin surely signals a franchise whose leaders only value physical tools to other intangibles. He was a bad fit for Oakland. Im sure JR would have had a decent career in say a place like Philadelphia or something.

@kerrigan91 said:

Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.

There is more - He is not a vociferous team leader, but often has too much confidence in his arm. He needs to improve pocket awareness and stepping up. Weeden sometimes negates his height with a 3/4 side-arm delivery that might have concerned right handed batters, but is ripe for an alert defensive lineman to bat down. He looks excellent when timing is on, but sails wild pitches off his back foot when things break down. Weeden ruptured a tendon in his right thumb the first game of 2010 but played through the injury. Most of all, his production was too gaudy to overlook. In little more than two seasons he completed 766 of 1,102 passes (69.5 pct) for 9,260 yards, 75 touchdowns and 27 interceptions (157.7 passer rating). - Frank Cooney - The Sports Xchange, NFL Draft Scout

@the-gipper said:

Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.

I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.

Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.

How'd all that turn out?

One was a complete washout... Although did manage to win 7 more games than he lost or a career.

The other managed a productive three and a half year career, too bad it took him thirteen years to do it. Grabbed one division title, and fell off the map, after winning 2 more games than he lost as a starter.

The legend of Brian Sipe is so much better than the player himself. People forget that Sipe's legendary season wasn't even as productive as Scott Mitchell's '95 season with the Lions... And it's widely accepted that he was one of the biggest free agent busts in history.

-jj

@kerrigan91 said:

Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.

Even if it took him a year to get good we would still have 5 good years with him and him alone, not 8 different starters in 5 years.