Homotron said:

Steelers got 3 or 4 7th round picks.

Must be 3, we got the most comp picks this year.

I'm gonna put a positive spin on this while giving the H&H wrecking crew the benefit of the doubt that they really do know what they are doing

as they lead the mighty Browns back to the promised land as top dog in the manly AFC north....

as someone most astutely expressed on this board,, I too don't have a clue how to put a winning team on the field.

I be leaving it to H&H to rebuild through the draft. they have successfully converted me.

may Jesus and Mother Mary bless all their endeavors.

May we Browns fans leave behind the seasons of despair and regain our dignity as we resolutely believe that yes......this year things are gonna be fuckin' different...

Go Browns!!!!!!!!!

@d-bone said:

Even the NFL feels sorry for us.

Steelers got 3 or 4 7th round picks.

@cribbs-is-the-man said:

Wow. thanks for doing some research. I guess no harm in taking a flier on a QB you like, I just feel that the percentage of finding an above average QB that late is so low that we might as well not take one because I dont care about QB depth, so its kind of all or nothing. But interesting stats!

And you very well may be right. Here are the QBs the Browns have drafted since 1970 at the 150 or below slot:

183 Spergon Wynn

316 Keithen McCant

296 Clemente Gordon

328 Steve Slayden

174 Mike Norseth

158 Terry Nugent

282 Steve Michuta

261 Craig Nagel

330 Brian Sipe

151 Mike Cilek

About a 1 out of 10 ratio for QBs taken that low. Perhaps the Browns should draft a QB as low as they go considering that Brian Sipe at slot #330 is THE lowest they have ever taken a QB in the draft....and of course he also happens to be the Browns career leader in attempts/completions/yards and TDs.

@the-gipper said:

Well, it may not be as bad as you think in terms of drafting decent QBs that late. Just since 1970 the following QBs have been taken with the 150th pick or lower (number on the left is their draft selection position:

275 Steve DeBerg 34,000 career yards, 196 career TDs

333 Bill Kenney 17,000 yards, 105 TDs

214 David Woodley only 8500 yards, but did start a Super Bowl

210 Wade Wilson 17,000 yards, 99 TDs

285 Doug Flutie 14,700 yds, 86 TDs. Not counting Canada. Was discriminated against because of height or would have had much better numbers

255 Don Majkowski, 12,700 yds, 66 TDs

159 Stan Humphries 17,000 yds, 89 TDs and a Super Bowl appearanc

227 Brad Johnson 29,000 yards, 166 TDs, and a Super Bowl win

166 Jeff Blake, 21,700 yds, 134 TDs

222 Trent Green 28,500 yds, 134 TDs

219 Elvis Grbac 16,775 yds, 99 TDs

197 Gus Frerotte 21,300 yds, 114 TDs

187 Matt Hasselback 33,150 yds, 194 TDs and a Super Bowl appearance

199 Tom Brady 40,000 yard, 300 TDs, 3 SBs wins and 2 losses, obvious HOFer

168 Marc Bulger 22,800 yds, 122 TDs

250 Ryan Fitzpatrick 11,000 yards and 68 TDs so far

230 Matt Cassel 12,000 yards and 76 TDs so far

213 Derek Anderson 10,000 yards 53 TDs

Yes, the above represent only about 6 percent of all QBs taken at 150 or lower since 1970, but, you do get the occasional diamond in the rough. Who knows.

Wow. thanks for doing some research. I guess no harm in taking a flier on a QB you like, I just feel that the percentage of finding an above average QB that late is so low that we might as well not take one because I dont care about QB depth, so its kind of all or nothing. But interesting stats!

@cribbs-is-the-man said:

Yea low risk, semi high reward with players like that.

Realistically I would expect 1-2 of those 4 to still be with the team in 2 years.. But we may find a lineman that can contribute or a special teams player. Also it frees up our 6th and 7th rounders if we want to throw those into a trade (you are not allowed to trade comp picks). Overall Im pleased; it can only help! I guess i view drafting a QB that late as a throw away pick. Brady is almost the only great QB to be drafted that late in semi recent history. and I dont care about drafting and grooming a career backup QB. If we get to the backup we are screwed anyway, unlike other positions, I dont care at all about backup QBs esp since we probably dont even have our longterm starting QB..

Well, it may not be as bad as you think in terms of drafting decent QBs that late. Just since 1970 the following QBs have been taken with the 150th pick or lower (number on the left is their draft selection position:

275 Steve DeBerg 34,000 career yards, 196 career TDs

333 Bill Kenney 17,000 yards, 105 TDs

214 David Woodley only 8500 yards, but did start a Super Bowl

210 Wade Wilson 17,000 yards, 99 TDs

285 Doug Flutie 14,700 yds, 86 TDs. Not counting Canada. Was discriminated against because of height or would have had much better numbers

255 Don Majkowski, 12,700 yds, 66 TDs

159 Stan Humphries 17,000 yds, 89 TDs and a Super Bowl appearanc

227 Brad Johnson 29,000 yards, 166 TDs, and a Super Bowl win

166 Jeff Blake, 21,700 yds, 134 TDs

222 Trent Green 28,500 yds, 134 TDs

219 Elvis Grbac 16,775 yds, 99 TDs

197 Gus Frerotte 21,300 yds, 114 TDs

187 Matt Hasselback 33,150 yds, 194 TDs and a Super Bowl appearance

199 Tom Brady 40,000 yard, 300 TDs, 3 SBs wins and 2 losses, obvious HOFer

168 Marc Bulger 22,800 yds, 122 TDs

250 Ryan Fitzpatrick 11,000 yards and 68 TDs so far

230 Matt Cassel 12,000 yards and 76 TDs so far

213 Derek Anderson 10,000 yards 53 TDs

Yes, the above represent only about 6 percent of all QBs taken at 150 or lower since 1970, but, you do get the occasional diamond in the rough. Who knows.

@ballpeen said:

I think this list is more indicative of what one can realistically expect, but as you say, occasionally a guy falls through the cracks and turns in to a good player. In every draft there are always 2-3 late round picks who end up having 2nd round value. Maybe we will be the team who lucks in to one of them.

I think those extra late round picks could allow a GM to get a bit creative, like draft the fastest human on the planet, even if they don't play football. Maybe you can talk them away from the track and make them a receiver. Maybe you draft a basketballer who can't shoot a lick and will never see the NBA, because he is 6'6" and has a 39" vert and try to create a new position....kick block specialist. Timing and angles, along with hands 11 feet off the ground might get in to a few kickers heads.

Yea low risk, semi high reward with players like that.

Realistically I would expect 1-2 of those 4 to still be with the team in 2 years.. But we may find a lineman that can contribute or a special teams player. Also it frees up our 6th and 7th rounders if we want to throw those into a trade (you are not allowed to trade comp picks). Overall Im pleased; it can only help! I guess i view drafting a QB that late as a throw away pick. Brady is almost the only great QB to be drafted that late in semi recent history. and I dont care about drafting and grooming a career backup QB. If we get to the backup we are screwed anyway, unlike other positions, I dont care at all about backup QBs esp since we probably dont even have our longterm starting QB..

@harry-buffalo said:

I do especially as a late round pick. He doesn't have the size but plays like a back with a heavier body, strength, has been healthy with zero injuries, and even game breaking speed oh ya I forgot and the numbers. His only knock is that San Diego State tends to run sort of a gimicky offense.

Actually they ran a pro style (remember Hoke was there a few seasons ago) and fed him the ball 23-30 times a game. They actually didn't get him out on the perimeter enough in the games I watched- but he's not a bad in between the tackle runner. He's not a great WR- and SDSU really didn't try that hard to get him the ball in that position, which is too bad considering we like to use RBs as pass catchers. If he's available with one of those 4th round picks I take him regardless of who we've added.

@ballpeen said:

I think this list is more indicative of what one can realistically expect, but as you say, occasionally a guy falls through the cracks and turns in to a good player. In every draft there are always 2-3 late round picks who end up having 2nd round value. Maybe we will be the team who lucks in to one of them.

I think those extra late round picks could allow a GM to get a bit creative, like draft the fastest human on the planet, even if they don't play football. Maybe you can talk them away from the track and make them a receiver. Maybe you draft a basketballer who can't shoot a lick and will never see the NBA, because he is 6'6" and has a 39" vert and try to create a new position....kick block specialist. Timing and angles, along with hands 11 feet off the ground might get in to a few kickers heads.

Yes, an Antonio Gates....who, I believe, actually went undrafted.

You know....I don't think either Usain Bolt or LeBron James have been drafted, maybe we can pick them...though I suspect they would prefer actual football players like the guys on the couple of lists I posted. I kinda like the idea of Austin Davis as a QB. You know H&H are going to take one, no doubt. They have declared it. Davis might be a decent choice to be that 1 out of 10 that go in the 199-250 range to make it.

@the-gipper said:

It is questionable as to how the Browns have done when they have had the picks at positions 204, 205, 245, 247. Here they are:

204

1 1982 8 204 Van Heflin TE CLE 0 0 0 Vanderbilt

2 1979 8 204 Kent Perkov DE CLE 0 0 0 San Diego St.

3 1958 17 204 Roddy Osborne B CLE 0 0 0 Texas A&M

4 1954 17 204 Howard Chapman T CLE 0 0 0 Florida

5 1952 17 204 Stew Scheetz T CLE 0 0 0 Penn St.

205:

1 1978 8 205 Jesse Turnbow DT CLE 1978 1978 0 0 0 1 16 Tennessee

2 1967 8 205 Bill Devrow DB CLE 0 0 0 Southern Miss

3 1963 15 205 Lynn Reade T CLE 0 0 0 USC

4 1956 17 205 Eddie West QB CLE 0 0 0 North Carolina St.

5 1955 17 205 Bob Leonard B CLE 0 0 0 Purdue

245:

1 2001 7 245 Andre King WR CLE 2001 2004 0 0 0 2 42 30 327 0 Miami (FL)

247:

1 1963 18 247 Bobby Garvin T CLE 0 0 0 Mississippi St.

2 1957 21 247 Curry Juneau E CLE 0 0 0 Southern Miss

3 1950 19 247 Butch Songin QB CLE 1960 1962 0 0 1 17 35 327 694 4347 38 31 23 90 2 Boston Col

Though Butch Sonqin looks like the most productive player on this list, what little effort he did he did in the AFL with the Pats and Jets, and before that he played several years in Canada.

So, if the Browns history is anything, these picks might not work out so well. Nevertheless, though I wouldn't expect an Art Donovan/Chris Hanburger HOFer....but if even one of them becomes a TJ Houshmanzadeh or Pierre Carcon, what the hell. Worth having a shot.

I think this list is more indicative of what one can realistically expect, but as you say, occasionally a guy falls through the cracks and turns in to a good player. In every draft there are always 2-3 late round picks who end up having 2nd round value. Maybe we will be the team who lucks in to one of them.

I think those extra late round picks could allow a GM to get a bit creative, like draft the fastest human on the planet, even if they don't play football. Maybe you can talk them away from the track and make them a receiver. Maybe you draft a basketballer who can't shoot a lick and will never see the NBA, because he is 6'6" and has a 39" vert and try to create a new position....kick block specialist. Timing and angles, along with hands 11 feet off the ground might get in to a few kickers heads.

@poeticg said:

The same people who say to pass on Richardson would probably say to pass on Brady because he's not a sure thing...ya know, 'cause he lost 2 whole superbowls...

Please stop. U hurt my brain.

If they don't work out, it's not like we wasted anything

@the-gipper said:

Data on RB Ronnie Hillman. Anyone like this guy?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1701008/ronnie-hillman

I do especially as a late round pick. He doesn't have the size but plays like a back with a heavier body, strength, has been healthy with zero injuries, and even game breaking speed oh ya I forgot and the numbers. His only knock is that San Diego State tends to run sort of a gimicky offense.

Mike

4 Robert Griffin III QB Baylor (despite the hype, they still have Claiborne rated higher)

22 Zebri Sanders OG

37 Alshon Jefferies WR So. Carolina

67 Stephon Gilmore CB So. Carolina (the other service had him ranked #22)

100 LaDarius Green TE La.-Lafayette

118 Terence Ganaway RB Baylor

139 Jeff Allen OG/OT Illinois

160 Darius Fleming LB Notre Dame

204 Ryan Steele CB Furman

205 Kellen Moore QB Boise St.

211 Jacquies Smith DE Missouri

245 James Hanna TE Oklahoma

247 Janzen Jackson FS McNeese St.

So-so.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1701008/ronnie-hillman

#4

#22

#37

#67

#100

#118

#139

#160

#204

#205

#211

#245

#247

If the Browns were to pick in those slots strictly on the basis of which CBSSports.com says are the players that rank in those particular slots the Browns would draft the following;

#4 Morris Claiborne CB LSU

#22 Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina

#37 Kevin Zeitler OG Wisconsin

#67 Geore Iloka FS Boise St.

#100 Ronnie Hillman RB San Diego St.

#118 Marcus Forster DT Miami

#139 T.Y. Hilton WR Fla. International

#160 Brandon Taylor SS LSU

#204 Trevin Wade CB Arizona

#205 Austin Davis QB So. Mississippi

#211 Tyler Nielsen OLB Iowa

#245 Najee Goode ILB W. Va.

#247 Vaugh Meatoga DT Hawaii.

Heavy on the DBs. Anything there float your boat? Oddly enough, except for the CB at the #22 slot, this random draft might not be so bad. I would replace that with one of the WRs and perhaps be happy.

Dennis Gaubatz 6 year starter at LB

Ron Yankowski 7 year starter at DE

Mickey Washingtion 3 year starter at DB for Cardinals

the other Adrian Peterson, RB with the Bears

and, oh yea, a guy named Brady. 40,000 yards, 300 TDs, 6 Pro Bowls, 3 Championships (plus 2 losses in SB)

... but probably a few Curry Juneau's and an Eddie West as well.

@poeticg said:

I feel like Heckert is going to land around...6 really capable starter in the draft.

#4,#22,#37 will be Elite players.

out of the one third and the two 4th rounders- 2 will be starters...

I expect Heckert to find a gem that Studs out into another starter with the plethora of picks that remain after the fourth round.

So, you think that though we may get a Curry Juneau in there, we will also get a Rich Saul and a John Spagnola?

#4,#22,#37 will be Elite players.

out of the one third and the two 4th rounders- 2 will be starters...

I expect Heckert to find a gem that Studs out into another starter with the plethora of picks that remain after the fourth round.

@poeticg said:

I'm sure Heckert will have some gems lined up for consideration, he's a draft nut.

Well, clearly, based on their stance in Free Agency, i.e. do almost nothing, it is clear they mean to "build through the draft", thus, 4 extra draft picks are going to be needed to fill the Browns holes at RB, WR, OG, OT, DE, OLB1, OLB2, Safety, Corner, QB.

Those should be 10 guaranteed position picks right there.

Also correct me if I am wrong...but H&H are loyal to "their guys" that they pick.

In the two years they have been doing this is who they have taken in the draft:

Phil Taylor

Jabal Sheard

Greg Little

Jordan Cameron

Owen Marecic

Buster Skrine

Jason Pinkston

Eric Hagg

Joe Haden

TJ Ward

Montario Hardesty

Colt McCoy

Shaun Lauvao

Larry Assante

Carlton Mitchell

Clifton Geathers

and the ONLY guys still not on the Browns roster are Clifton Geathers and Larry Assante.

Nine of the Browns 22 starters on offense and defense were drafted by them the last 2 years. That could end up to be 10,11 or 12 if Hardesty, Cameron and either Skrine or Hagg claim starting spots.

So, yea, these guys are going to do it by the draft, and with 13 picks they damn well expect about 4 starting slots to be filled with draft choices from this year, and maybe a couple of more.