@the-gipper said:

None of whom are even as good as Colt McCoy.

Simple but true. Why this isn't brought up is beyond me.

I really think Peyton Manning (even now), Luck, RGIII, Maybe Flynn are better QBs than McCoy that were available this year. After those ships sailed it is time to move on- even if it means not having THE QB in place long term.

I think McCoy would make a case to be the starter with Weeden, Tannehill or Cousins. It just looks bad when you draft a guy #4 overall or #7 (if we moved down) and the current QB you have competes and beats out the guy you drafted higher. I could see it happening for at least two years. I don't mind Weeden in the second or Cousins in third IF you really can't identify I highly rated player worthy of being picked in those slots- at least you have (2) 1st round guys to help the guy you currently have.

Its not often you have two first round picks- I just hope the Browns don't think the gamble is right for a QB with one of those picks.

@tour2ma said:

Interesting back and forth... with minimum feces throwing... how refreshing. Even picked up a new word, "positing".

Ryan may be a reach, but viewed in proportion after three #1's plus a #2 for the presumed right to draft RGIII, a single #1 for Tannehill does seem like a bargain.

That said since I was not for drafting RG even at #4, I can't support anything more than the appearance of interest in Ryan at #4 (not that that appearance can really help us).

The more it seems like we may be interested in Ryan, the more the Vik's phone will ring. Miami and Seattle both appear to be solidly on Ryan's bandwagon. Unfortunately for us Seattle may be a tad too low (Ingram) in the order (Ingram) to benefit us (Ingram)... but we shall see.

Not so sure its the desperation to find so much as the the desire to not miss a franchise QB. I've said before that you always need to be on the lookout for your next franchise QB, even when you have one. All that the quality of your current starter changes is the pick(s) you are willing to pay.

There are many years like 2011's QB-rush and not just at QB... OT and WR are two other positions that immediately come to mind for round 1. RB??? Not so much... On the other side of the ball only DB's seem to open the Rnd 1 floodgates.

In lower rounds there are always multiple points in every draft where GM's act like lemmings diving into a single position.

Just part of the Draft Day fun...

I know you like him though but I don't think Ingram is even on our radar.

The first round of the 2012 NFL Draft is in 21 days. Quarterbacks Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III and Ryan Tannehill will all hear their names called on Thursday, April 26, and while no one disputes that Luck and RG3 are the draft's two best players, opinions are mixed on whether Tannehill is worth a top-10 pick.

There was speculation last month that Tannehill could sneak into the top-5, and NFL Network's Mike Mayock has said that he thinks the Browns, who hold the No. 4 pick, make a lot of sense.

“Franchise quarterback trumps all,” he said on March 26. “We talk about that all the time, and I don't believe Colt McCoy is the answer. And I do believe Ryan Tannehill could become the answer. So I believe at No. 4 [Cleveland] ought to pull the trigger on Tannehill."

During an appearance Wednesday on NFL Network's "Path to the Draft," former NFL general manager Charley Casserly spoke about Tannehill. "I interviewed a dozen teams on this guy at the end of the season and they all pretty much told me late (first round) to early (second round)," he said. "The most accurate grades I ever get are the ones when I ask people in December and January."

On the same show, draft analyst Charles Davis also sounded cautious about Tannehill's value. "When this whole process started, I'm not sure many of us had him top 10, let alone maybe No. 4 to the Cleveland Browns. I like his abilities, I like his athleticism, but remember, just 19 starts at the quarterback position in college, had played wide receiver before that. … Not a lot of production down the stretch last year. … To me, he's a little bit of a risk going that high."

And it's that inexperience that troubles former Broncos general manager Ted Sundquist, who thinks the Dolphins should pass on Tannehill with the No. 8 pick. "I feel like he's being pushed up the board not necessarily on his ability to play the position at the next level but on his athleticism and people predicting his potential," Sundquist said Wednesday. "I think the Dolphins, if they take (Michael) Floyd, have an opportunity to find a quarterback with that second(-round) pick … much like Cincinnati did last year when they took A.J. Green and found Andy Dalton waiting for them. I would take Michael Floyd with the Miami Dolphins' pick at No. 8."

It's an interesting theory. The Dolphins have the 42nd selection in the second round. NFLDraftScout.com's Rob Rang has Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden as the 42nd-ranked player on his big board followed by Kirk Cousins (72nd) and Brock Osweiler (81st), who was mentioned as a possible first-rounder last week. Rang also lists Tannehill 11th.

But here's the thing: some personnel people may think of Tannehill as a late first-rounder right now, but if a team is convinced that he's a franchise quarterback then they should draft him. Aaron Rodgers was taken at the end of the first round in 2005 and Drew Brees went at the beginning of the second round in 2002. Now they're two of the best players in the league.

The lesson: the draft isn't a science. There's some luck involved too.

LINK: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/18303592/opinions-mixed-on-qb-ryan-tannehill-viewed-as-late-1strounder-by-some

That said; I don't see the Browns taking the chance.

I think Richardson is the best fit.

Anyway you slice it, however, you could make a case for; Richardson, Blackmon, and Claiborne.

@hoorta said:

Thank you. IMHO Tannehill in the top 10 is an even bigger reach than Ponder or Gabbert were last year.

Ryan may be a reach, but viewed in proportion after three #1's plus a #2 for the presumed right to draft RGIII, a single #1 for Tannehill does seem like a bargain.

That said since I was not for drafting RG even at #4, I can't support anything more than the appearance of interest in Ryan at #4 (not that that appearance can really help us).

@hoorta said:

PS if Tannehill was as close talent wise as RGIII as you were positing, there'd be a land office rush of teams willing to trade up to #3 to get him.

The more it seems like we may be interested in Ryan, the more the Vik's phone will ring. Miami and Seattle both appear to be solidly on Ryan's bandwagon. Unfortunately for us Seattle may be a tad too low (Ingram) in the order (Ingram) to benefit us (Ingram)... but we shall see.

@hoorta said:

I see Deja Vu from last year- second round talent shooting up the draft board because teams are desperate to find a "franchise quarterback."

Not so sure its the desperation to find so much as the the desire to not miss a franchise QB. I've said before that you always need to be on the lookout for your next franchise QB, even when you have one. All that the quality of your current starter changes is the pick(s) you are willing to pay.

There are many years like 2011's QB-rush and not just at QB... OT and WR are two other positions that immediately come to mind for round 1. RB??? Not so much... On the other side of the ball only DB's seem to open the Rnd 1 floodgates.

In lower rounds there are always multiple points in every draft where GM's act like lemmings diving into a single position.

Just part of the Draft Day fun...

@floridabrownsfan said:

Thought this article would be a good read in relation to this discussion: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1126173-ryan-tannehill-and-the-consistent-overdrafting-of-below-average-quarterbacks

The need for a qb always leads to overdrafting for the next qb with the most potential. Name me a single qb who converted from a WR that has been successful. Tannehill does have the right physical tools to be a starting qb, but he is not an option to start ahead of McCoy so why bother drafting him? If McCoy bombs it this year, you get the opportunity to draft Barkley, Bray and the other potential franchise QBs next year.

None of whom are even as good as Colt McCoy.

@hoorta said:

Thank you. IMHO Tannehill in the top 10 is an even bigger reach than Ponder or Gabbert were last year. Beware of one year wonders with accuracy issues. (If JJ says he's got accuracy problems, I have to believe it.) The last one year wonder to fit that description was Akilli Smith.

Granted Tannehill is way smarter than Smith ever was (planning to go to medical school) but Ponder was rated as one in the top 25 smartest athletes (any sport) by Sporting News- so were did that intelligence get him?

PS if Tannehill was as close talent wise as RGIII as you were positing, there'd be a land office rush of teams willing to trade up to #3 to get him.

I see Deja Vu from last year- second round talent shooting up the draft board because teams are desperate to find a "franchise quarterback."

There very well might be, but it won't be till the draft. The only reason the RGIII trade happened so soon was because of Manning being out on the market. He and Flynn could have very well driven down the price for the #2 overall pick if they went to certain teams, so the Rams demanded a trade be in place before FA even started. Now that people are falling in love with this guy so late after FA started there is really no reason to make a trade for #3 to get Tannehill until teams have had their private workouts/meetings with him.

The need for a qb always leads to overdrafting for the next qb with the most potential. Name me a single qb who converted from a WR that has been successful. Tannehill does have the right physical tools to be a starting qb, but he is not an option to start ahead of McCoy so why bother drafting him? If McCoy bombs it this year, you get the opportunity to draft Barkley, Bray and the other potential franchise QBs next year.

@mike-h said:

I dont believe Tanny is a top ten pick but I'm not sold on RG3, that's why I said what I said. I don't agree he's as bad as you say but I really hope they pass or trade to Miami and let them take the risk while the Browns build up their team.

In the end it doesn't matter what we think.

I disagree with you, you disagree with me and Heckert will most likely do sonething neither of us expect.

Thank you. IMHO Tannehill in the top 10 is an even bigger reach than Ponder or Gabbert were last year. Beware of one year wonders with accuracy issues. (If JJ says he's got accuracy problems, I have to believe it.) The last one year wonder to fit that description was Akilli Smith.

Granted Tannehill is way smarter than Smith ever was (planning to go to medical school) but Ponder was rated as one in the top 25 smartest athletes (any sport) by Sporting News- so were did that intelligence get him?

PS if Tannehill was as close talent wise as RGIII as you were positing, there'd be a land office rush of teams willing to trade up to #3 to get him.

I see Deja Vu from last year- second round talent shooting up the draft board because teams are desperate to find a "franchise quarterback."

@mike-h said:

H&H have nothing to lose, if McCoy is so bad I don't see why you people would be so against taking Tannehill?

He's not that far off from RGIII and he hasn't even reached his potential yet. (17 starts)

The hype is growing just like RGIII's did. It's irrelevant what everyone thinks about his weaknesses... QB's are at a premium, just ask Locker, Gabbert and Ponder who all went in the top 12. Someone is going to pick him early, whether thats Cleveland, Miami or KC. It's probably going to happen.

I'd still prefer Blackmon or Floyd to Tannehill or Richardson.

And if those teams could go back in time, there is no way they do the same thing. Sometimes desperation (and lack of proper scouting) can lead teams to do crazy stuff.

@mike-h said:

1.) First off, Griffin is not a complete player. You, like a lot of other people bought into his hype as soon as it began. The guy has a strong arm and can make some really good throws but he isn't an proven NFL caliber player until he steps on the field and proves it.

2.) Tannehill was a converted WR and with not even 2 complete seasons. I never said he was a BETTER player right now than RGIII. But the fact that you would be willing to give up 3 first round picks and a second for RGIII speaks volumes about you and what your motives are. You backed RGIII, now, when he fails to live up to the gigantic expectations on him, come back to this post and eat some crow.

Tannehill may not be able to make every throw, but neither can Colt McCoy or RGIII.

"Doesn't _regularly_ hit in stride." I guess you have some data to back that up, since my statement that Tannehill is "not that far off from RGIII and he hasn't even reached his potential yet" is "so preposterous"?

I've watched more than a handful of A&M games and even went over his tape. He has a great arm, good mobility and vision and he has the velocity on his throws that's needed. His accuracy and timing do need work and he would definitely not be ready to start from day one. However, he can make some pretty impressive throws and I'd take him at 22 if I were a GM if he was available.

But here's what gets me the most about your post.. To say that RGIII is leaps and bounds ahead of him, and that Tannehill's ceiling could never reach his "level" is nothing but bias and drivel.

If the Browns choose to take a gamble on him at 4 or 6, or even 7... I'd support it like I wrote earlier last week. Tell me again how essential it is to draft a running back in the top 10, because every team who succeeds has done that?

Look at my other post and explain to me why the Browns cant take Martin, Wilson, Grey, Miller or any of the other options in the 2-4th round and why they couldn't be good running backs in the Browns offense?

Honestly, give me a break dude.

3.) H&H have absolutely no pressure on losing their jobs. Lerner is "staying the course" with them at the helm.

1. I don't get caught up in hype. If I can't see it on the field, I don't believe it. That keeps me out of trouble.

And that's my problem with Tannehill. He hasn't done it in the field. He aims the ball in traffic. His mechanics fall apart when he's uncomfortable. He's going to have to be rebuilt from the feet up. And that is a box of chocolates proposition.

2. I don't have a 'motive'. I'm not a particularly ardent fan. I'm not lobbying. I'm just giving my opinion as objectively as possible. I'm passionate about football. But I'm not really much of a fan.

3. I'm not saying that he Browns need to draft a running back at 4. I've only said that I believe Richardson has value at 4, as does Claibourne. I am not a Justin Blackmon guy. And that's a bit rash. He has great film. But I simply don't trust body-catchers. And Blackmon's got some really bad habits when it comes to hosting he ball.

4. I really didn't mean for that post to come off as rude as it sounded. I just can't figure out who thinks Tannehill is a top 10 pick and what they're basing it on. It's just not there. I'm 9 games into his final season, and I don't see anything outside of the arm and the athleticism. And the arm is just strong. He doesn't really know how to use it. I'll try to do some cut ups this weekend to better explain what I'm talking about.

-jj

@roach said:

The best player on the board will be Richardson. If they take this stiff QB over him, Blackmon, or the CB, then I'm dropping my season tickets. No kidding.

Why do you think he is a stiff Ed???

@mike-h said:

H&H have nothing to lose, if McCoy is so bad I don't see why you people would be so against taking Tannehill?

He's not that far off from RGIII and he hasn't even reached his potential yet. (17 starts)

That may be the most preposterous statement I've read on here in a long time... and that's saying something. Griffin is so far ahead of Tannehill you can barely chart it. Griffin is a complete player. Tannehill's ceiling isn't even where RGIII is right now.

Have you seen Tannehill throw in traffic? Show me his positives on 12-15 yard dig routes. He's all over the place. Even shallow crossers and drive routes he doesn't regularly hit in stride. This kid won't be ready to take an NFL snap before 2013, and that's pushing it. Griffin could start Sunday, and be effective.

That's why people are against taking him in the first. It makes no sense to draft a quarterback for 2014 when you know as a coaching staff and front office, that you won't be around to see him play unless something changes dramatically between then and now.

-jj

@mike-h said:

H&H have nothing to lose, if McCoy is so bad I don't see why you people would be so against taking Tannehill?

He's not that far off from RGIII and he hasn't even reached his potential yet. (17 starts)

The hype is growing just like RGIII's did. It's irrelevant what everyone thinks about his weaknesses... QB's are at a premium, just ask Locker, Gabbert and Ponder who all went in the top 12. Someone is going to pick him early, whether thats Cleveland, Miami or KC. It's probably going to happen.

I'd still prefer Blackmon or Floyd to Tannehill or Richardson.

And all of whom should probably have been drafted much lower. I say we find that QB diamond in the rough....maybe an Austin Davis in like the 5th-6th round.

@mike-h said:

H&H have nothing to lose, if McCoy is so bad I don't see why you people would be so against taking Tannehill?

He's not that far off from RGIII and he hasn't even reached his potential yet. (17 starts)

I'd still prefer Blackmon or Floyd to Tannehill or Richardson.

Because he's just another guy and he is far off from Griffin in my opinion.

The Browns were willing to part with three first round picks because they were anxious to get Griffin, not replace McCoy.

McCoy appears to be Plan b.

Which is fine, there's always next year, and in my opinion a better option than spending #4 on a question mark like Tannehill.

Zombo

Tannehill at 4?

Zombo

...in all seriousness, if this were to occur I'd with out a doubt question my loyalty to this franchise and I might even consider walking away...

@mike-h said:

Would you say Gabbert, Locker and Ponder were top 12 picks?

Tannehill is a top 10 pick if teams value him as one.

I don't agree but that's reality... You can make every pertinent argument in the world on why he shouldn't be a top 10 pick and I'd agree.

But if someone picks him, it makes it all irrelevant, no?

If someone picks him and he flops that someone should be fired.

@hoorta said:

Someone's going to reach for this kid in the draft just like the Jags and Vikes did last year- using a first round pick on second round talent. I just hope it's not us.

Take Richardson or Blackmon with the pick. Go for your project qb with one of the fourth rounders. And IMO Tannehill is a project- he's a converted WR fer cripes sake! Our departed Shepster did have one telling stat- the # of games you started as qb in college does have some predictive value as to how well you'll do in the pros.

The Colt McCoy detractors might argue, seeing that he started probably as many college football games as anyone in history. And look at this article about who are rated the greatest college football Quarterbacks of all time:

The top ten ...

10. Michael Vick, Virginia Tech

In hindsight, and with Vince Young's career a recent memory, it's easy to forget what an impact Vick had on the game. He was a revolutionary playmaker who helped carry the Hokies to the 1999 championship game losing to Florida State in a classic. He lost two games in his career with the second at Miami in 2000.

9. Charlie Ward, Florida State

I'm not nearly as high on him as others are even though he went 23-2 as a starter. While he was one of the game's ultimate all-around quarterbacks and the signature offensive star of the great Bobby Bowden era at Florida State, he was average in the national title win over Nebraska and lost to Notre Dame in the biggest game of the 1993 season.

8. Roger Staubach, Navy

Staubach carried an average Navy team to a 9-1 record and number two ranking in 1963 before losing to undefeated Texas in the Cotton Bowl. One of the games greatest all-around quarterbacks, he completed 292 of 463 career passes and piled up 4,253 yards of total offense.

7. Ken Dorsey, Miami

Even with a 38-2 record, 31 straight games with a touchdown pass, one national title, and a questionable pass interference call and a Willis McGahee injury from another, the two-time Heisman finalist still doesn't get his just due. He was just a product of a great system with a boatload of talent around him, right? How did Vinny Testaverde do in his national title appearance with that great 1986 Hurricane team? How has Miami done since Dorsey? When you're the most successful Miami quarterback of all-time, you belong on the list of greats.

6. Davey O'Brien, TCU

There's a reason the award for the nation's top quarterback is named after him. The 1938 Heisman winner led the nation in passing in 1936 and 1937, and finished his career with 24 TD passes, 2,659 yards (remember the era we're talking about), 928 rushing yards and ten touchdown runs along with being a star kick returner and defensive back. Even at only 5-7 and 150 pounds, he was tough as nails and was a consummate leader.

5. Danny Wuerffel, Florida

Wuerffel put up mind boggling stats against some of the nation's best teams completing 708 of 1,170 passes for 10,875 yards and 114 touchdowns. During his career, the Gators played 22 ranked teams finishing with one national title and another national title appearance. How many national championship games has Steve Spurrier been to without No. 7? Zero. Wuerffel's career passer rating of 163.56 was the best in major college football history including a 178.4 rating in 1995. He was the only college passer to ever have back-to-back seasons with over a 170 passer rating.

4. Vince Young, Texas

With the Rose Bowl still fresh in everyone's minds, Young might be the number one choice of many. It came down to overall accomplishments which kept VY out of the top three despite being a transcendent star who came up with one of the greatest performances ever in the win over USC. Had he come back for his senior year and led Texas to another title, he'd have been number one on this list.

3. Sammy Baugh, TCU

This isn't the pretentious nod to history that you might think. Back in 1934, the passing game in college football wasn't just in it's infancy, it was almost non-existent. Remembering what time period he did this in, Baugh was amazing completing 285 of 597 career passes for 3,471 yards and 39 touchdowns. He led the 1935 Horned Frogs to the national title.

2. Matt Leinart, USC

Everyone came out of the 2006 Rose Bowl talking about Vince Young, and rightly so, while Leinart's brilliant performance was swept aside. Talk about your money players, the guy went 39-2 as a starter, completed 70 of 109 passes for 1,024 yards, nine touchdowns and one interception in his three bowl games. He won a Heisman, was in the mix for another, won a BCS national title, two AP national titles, and was the leader of one of the great runs in the history of college football. The career stats are amazing: 807-1,245 (65%), 10,693 yards, 99 touchdowns, 23 interceptions, nine rushing touchdowns, one touchdown catch.

1. Tommie Frazier, Nebraska

Before Frazier came to Nebraska, the Huskers had only beaten one top 20 team in four years. That all changed as he became the heart and soul of one of the most dominant teams college football ever saw leading the Huskers to a 13-2 record (when he started) over AP ranked teams only losing to Florida State in two Orange Bowls. Even though he missed several games with a blood clot in his leg, Frazier still won 33 and took the Huskers to three straight national championship games, winning two, and coming within a late field goal of winning a third. Fine, so he only completed 49% of his throws, but he threw 43 touchdown passes with only 11 interceptions. By the time he left Lincoln, he was the career leader in total offense with 5,476 yards, touchdown passes, rushing touchdowns by a QB with 36, and total offensive touchdowns for a career with 79. Those stats don't even take into account his bowl performances led by the 199-yard rushing day in the win over Florida.

I guess if you were a great college QB prior to say, 1964, it translates, but this is a pretty poor list when it comes to NFL success.

And by the way, here is the list of the honorable mentions from that report:

Ty Detmer, Archie Manning, Steve Walsh, Jamelle Holloway, Doug Flutie, Payton Manning.