@halfsane said:

I was at that game, and the guy left it all on the field. That game was one hell of a show. You could never accuse him of not playing hard each week! I still have my 80 jersey hanging in the closet too.

Yeah, what a game. That was my first game in Cleveland having been an overseas fan for 20 years - great first game to go to. Winslow played out of his skin.

@dick-mellon said:

Do you know what we got that that traded pick? Just curious. For as disappointing as K2 ended up being here, he is not as disappointing as MoMass...imo

hahaha, I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

All the pick trading was too much for me.

It was an early 5th round pick that CLE traded to PHI (I think), but I can't figure out what happened to it after that! lol

I still think Momass can be a solid receiver. His play has been drastically affected by the number of concussions he has sustained. If he can stay healthy (a big if), then I think he will prove you wrong. He is by no means a #1 receiver but I think he will do fine. Weeden's fastballs will help keep defenders from destroying Momass on most plays.

@howiedawg said:

I'm not sure K2s value for us can be purely measured on his TDs, as Hoorta points out, he would have had a rich legacy had he not crashed his bike. I also don't think he was the diva you paint compared to team mates at the time like Edwards. I certainly will never forget how he almost killed himself to help us beat Seattle back in 2007, a stuning effort that was not Atypical and also did not result in a single TD for him. I won't burn my #80 shirt after reading this email.

That game was the most fun and most exciting browns game ive been to. I also went to the browns- bengals game in cincy that year and that was definitely the most painful one. D.A. did everything he could to give the game away. And of course all the bungle fans was talkin smack like haha we just knocked u out of the playoffs.. them dudes was luck i wasnt packin that day!

@dick-mellon said:

Do you know what we got that that traded pick? Just curious. For as disappointing as K2 ended up being here, he is not as disappointing as MoMass...imo

hahaha, I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

All the pick trading was too much for me.

It was an early 5th round pick that CLE traded to PHI (I think), but I can't figure out what happened to it after that! lol

Maybe we need a geneologist to trace some of these trades. And not to get off the track, but lets look at one: the Julio Jones trade. Anyone correct me if you think I got this wrong, but in return for trading down with Atlanta to allow them to take Julio Jones the Browns obtained the following players:

Phil Taylor DT

Greg Little WR

Owen Marecic FB

Brandon Weeden QB

James Michael Johnson LB

Does that sound right? That could very well be 5 starters by the time all is said and done.

hahaha, I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

All the pick trading was too much for me.

It was an early 5th round pick that CLE traded to PHI (I think), but I can't figure out what happened to it after that! lol

Zombo said:

I never had a problem with him other than he lacked explosiveness after the knee injuries.

Apparently Schianno had a problem with him, since he didn't stay in Tampa and work out in the off-season.

The injuries were not something we could have forecasted when we drafted him. Had we drafted Roethilstilstkin instead we would have a rapist leading our team and I would be embarrassed to be a Browns fan for the first time in my life.

Zombo

Yea, I am not sure that if we hadn't taken K2 that it would have been BR that the Browns would have chosen. The Browns may instead have taken Roy Williams WR (bust) or WR Reggie Williams (bust), or Lee Evans or Jonathan Vilma or the like.

So its all second guessing.

@dick-mellon said:

. . . .while Ben Roethlisberger quietly sat at the table waiting to be picked. . .

"With the #6 pick, the Cleveland Browns Select Kellen Winslow II"

Winslow signs a six-year $40 million contract.

After scoring 11 TD's over five seasons under contact. . . .

Winslow is traded to Tampa for some picks.

The Browns picked Mohamed Massaquoi with one of those picks and traded the other pick. . . .

Do you know what we got that that traded pick? Just curious. For as disappointing as K2 ended up being here, he is not as disappointing as MoMass...imo

Tampa gives him a six year contract for $36 million.

After scoring 12 TD's over three seasons . . .

Winslow is shopped around before his release.

The Winslow Totals:

12 years of contracts.

Six seasons of playing football (when he was not on IR).

$76 Million in gross contract value.

Played in 92 games.

23 touchdowns scored.

$3.3 Million (gross contract value) per touchdown.

$826,000 (gross contract value) per game played.

@howiedawg said:

I'm not sure K2s value for us can be purely measured on his TDs, as Hoorta points out, he would have had a rich legacy had he not crashed his bike. I also don't think he was the diva you paint compared to team mates at the time like Edwards. I certainly will never forget how he almost killed himself to help us beat Seattle back in 2007, a stuning effort that was not Atypical and also did not result in a single TD for him. I won't burn my #80 shirt after reading this email.

I was at that game, and the guy left it all on the field. That game was one hell of a show. You could never accuse him of not playing hard each week! I still have my 80 jersey hanging in the closet too.

Apparently Schianno had a problem with him, since he didn't stay in Tampa and work out in the off-season.

The injuries were not something we could have forecasted when we drafted him. Had we drafted Roethilstilstkin instead we would have a rapist leading our team and I would be embarrassed to be a Browns fan for the first time in my life.

Zombo

@dick-mellon said:

. . . .while Ben Roethlisberger quietly sat at the table waiting to be picked. . .

"With the #6 pick, the Cleveland Browns Select Kellen Winslow II"

Winslow signs a six-year $40 million contract.

After scoring 11 TD's over five seasons under contact. . . .

Winslow is traded to Tampa for some picks.

The Browns picked Mohamed Massaquoi with one of those picks and traded the other pick. . . .

Tampa gives him a six year contract for $36 million.

After scoring 12 TD's over three seasons . . .

Winslow is shopped around before his release.

The Winslow Totals:

12 years of contracts.

Six seasons of playing football (when he was not on IR).

$76 Million in gross contract value.

Played in 92 games.

23 touchdowns scored.

$3.3 Million (gross contract value) per touchdown.

$826,000 (gross contract value) per game played.

Gee, thanks for bringing up one of Butch "the Bozo's" major f**kups. HARDLY his worst. Has to be taking "Spare Change" Warren when Ladanian Tomlinson and Richard Seyumour were still available. What was really damn stupid was trading up for him- there was no way in hell the Lions were going to draft Kneivel. Smokin' Willie Green was another reason Butch got shown the door.

I said years ago- had inside info the Browns dumped him because they knew his accident damaged knee was shot- and he had about 2 years left on it, max.

PS Too bad for KWII- if he hadn't been a dumb ass on a crotch rocket, there's a possibility he could have rivaled his dad's career.

look what he's done with marshawn lynch.