@horn-of-lake-erie said:

"Pittsburgh won the Arena championship last year"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Power

They didn't even make the playoffs dumass. And, your presumptions that the Pittspuke Pirates will have a winning season are stupid. Remember last year, the first time in over a decade where you had a flicker of hope to make the playoffs?

I thought "churches" don't accept fags, gafreleets..?

Again, I didn't include "minor leagues". Only leagues that merged with the Big 4.

That means that even a league with a potential legitimate claim like the USFL didn't get on the title list. If they had somehow been able to attain a merger with the NFL I would have been glad to include them.

Think how different things would have been had that jury....which found FOR the USFL in that lawsuit had, instead of granting $3.00 in damages, had granted 300 million or 3 billion.

The USFL would have forced a merger with the NFL.

You may have had current teams like the Baltimore Stars, the Jacksonville Bulls, the Arizona Wranglers, the LA Express, the Memphis Showboats, the New Jersey Generals, the San Antonio Gunslingers, the Oakland Invaders and the Birmingham Stallions.

Most of the franchise movement, like the Cards to AZ, the Rams to St. Louis, the Oilers to Tennessee, the Raiders back to Oakland?, would never had occurred. The expansions of the mid 90s when the Jags and Panthers were brought in, and the creation of the Ravens and the Texans would never had occurred. We would probably have a 36 team league. There may have still been some threats to move teams, but the markets that were open or that opened up, like AZ, St. L., Baltiwhore, Memph/Nashville, Houston, and Los Angeles would have closed. (Note: the Colts had already moved to Indy before the USFL began play, so that move would not have been stopped.)

The only current city that may have been in play would have been Charlotte. They would have had to make a play for a current franchise then. I am sure the suckheads like Bud Adams, Bill Bidwill, Georgia Frontiere, and Art Modell would have probably tried to play that card, or some other card.

But, things would have been a lot different.

@horn-of-lake-erie said:

"Pittsburgh won the Arena championship last year"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Power

They didn't even make the playoffs dumass. And, your presumptions that the Pittspuke Pirates will have a winning season are stupid. Remember last year, the first time in over a decade where you had a flicker of hope to make the playoffs?

I thought "churches" don't accept fags, gafreleets..?

then the following year, they let go of their entire team the day they showed up to their first game.

ever wonder why not pittsburgher's talk about the pirates?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_Power

They didn't even make the playoffs dumass. And, your presumptions that the Pittspuke Pirates will have a winning season are stupid. Remember last year, the first time in over a decade where you had a flicker of hope to make the playoffs?

I thought "churches" don't accept fags, gafreleets..?

Montreal would go from 40 to 26

Toronto would go from 16 to 15

Ottawa would go from 10 to 4

Quecec would go from 2 t 1

Unfortunatly, little Kenora's title would be placed in the amateur bin.

This would not change my original post: Vancouver and Ottawa would still have their last major titles happen in 1915 and 1927 respectively. It would only change some of the counts that various cities would include in their totals. And here is that count....hockey only for cities that have won Stanley Cups since 1915:

Montreal 26

Toronto 13

NY/NJ 11

Detroit 11

Boston 6

Edmonton 5

Chicago 4

Ottawa 4

Pittsburgh 3

Philadelphia 2

Denver 2

LA/Anaheim 2

Raleigh 1

Tampa Bay 1

Dallas 1

Calgary 1

Seattle 1

Victoria 1

Vancouver 1

Add the following for WHA titles:

Winnipeg 3

Houston 2

Quebec 1

Hartford 1

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stanley_Cup_champions

The reason I included the Stanley Cup winners pre NHL is because even after the NHL was formed, its winner didn't automatically win the Stanley Cup. Other leagues like the PCHA and the WCHA competed with the NHL for the Cup. So it is a bit of a mixed bag there.

In any event, these guys vied for the Cup with the NHL. When the Women's League plays the NFL Champion in a Super/Whatever Bowl, I guess I will include them.

@gafreleets said:

while i won't debate the validity of any of the championships you "claim" for cleveland, i just wanted to make you aware that your stats for Pittsburgh are off.

if you're going to include championships from quasi professional leagues that 80% of the teams no longer exist then you must include the Pittsburgh Passion's women's pro football team that won the championship last year (either last year or year before).....also while you're at it me and my buddies from church held the first annual church league flag football championship tourny...........where a Pittsburgh area team beat the Rogers Ohio Plowmen 35-17 in the finals.

so the final count for Pittsburgh championships is actually higher and the last time we won would be this year.

hey, if we're gonna count quasi championships for defunct or semi pro leagues then lets do it up right.

I have only counted titles in the current Big 4 leagues, and in leagues that have merged with the Big 4 leagues. That is why the AAFC/ABA/WHL/AFL get included. When you can evidence that the women's pro football league or your church league have been accepted and merged into one of the current Big 4 leagues, then I will consider it.

It is why the USFL/XFL and the like are not included.

Its a fairly simple criteria. Nevertheless, if anyone could not comprehend it, it would be a Steeler fan.

(FYI, didn't include the Federal League or the Player's League or the A.A. in baseball. I also didn't include the Ohio League from which the NFL was formed).

my point was that you have your opinions based upon a certain era in football that in your mind hold the one and only truth about who when and where titles were won and records should be kept. my point about what your fahter and his father was that they know a lot more about what happened then and would disagree about your views because you weren't there and above all can't be told different because of your bias.

you come in here biased to begin with but can't and won't allow yourself to hear what people are telling you based upon historical truth. so with no valid retort you change the subject and say that i'm calling you an anti-american or something. sure i know you didn't serve your country but 80% of my friends didn't as well. so don't use that as i'll burn you at the stake flame.

i'm saying quit disagreeing with something that is well documented historical knowledge by coming back with a smarmy self loathing answer. must be something blocking your frontal lobe. go see a doctor.

a witch doctor.

@miktoxic said:

so for you it's all about the modern era?

i guess what your father and his father stood for back in the day means nothing to you. fight for your country. never hit a woman. provide for your family. yes they probably started your family following the steelers but even they couldn't disagree that professional football started without a team called the pittsburgh steelers.

yes in the modern era (which is what for you...the 70's only because it benefits your argument or maybe some view it as late as the start of the 21st century) the steelers have thrived while the browns have struggled. but don't forget the browns were a ground breaking organization at the inset of what we call football today. first to allow black players to play on a team. first to play in a league and win every title. once merged into the big boy league the first year won that title and more. what more do you want? can't you just be level headed and agree that both teams have done so much for the game we love today? and agree that it had to have started somewhere?

hell everywhere else in the world vintage items are sought after by people all over the world because either it's a collectors item or it reminds a person of something when they were growing up. but i guess you're encyclopedia brittanica starts in the 70's.

but let's just sweep the old football history under the rug until you find the pile of history that you want to claim and put on a mantle.

yes, because i think the modern era of football makes it MUCH harder to suck as hard and as long as the modern browns have (your team quite literally should have been accidently better than it has been) than it was for the Steelers to have sucked back in the time before dinosaurs, must mean i am for beating women.....not support the military.....and provide poorly for my family.

wow.

i now understand the mindset of the average clown fan.

nuckin futs.

i guess what your father and his father stood for back in the day means nothing to you. fight for your country. never hit a woman. provide for your family. yes they probably started your family following the steelers but even they couldn't disagree that professional football started without a team called the pittsburgh steelers.

yes in the modern era (which is what for you...the 70's only because it benefits your argument or maybe some view it as late as the start of the 21st century) the steelers have thrived while the browns have struggled. but don't forget the browns were a ground breaking organization at the inset of what we call football today. first to allow black players to play on a team. first to play in a league and win every title. once merged into the big boy league the first year won that title and more. what more do you want? can't you just be level headed and agree that both teams have done so much for the game we love today? and agree that it had to have started somewhere?

hell everywhere else in the world vintage items are sought after by people all over the world because either it's a collectors item or it reminds a person of something when they were growing up. but i guess you're encyclopedia brittanica starts in the 70's.

but let's just sweep the old football history under the rug until you find the pile of history that you want to claim and put on a mantle.

@riffer-x said:

173-286-19

Just did some quick math from http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/football/profootball/pittsburghseason.html and came up with the numbers above. My gawd did this team suck balls for a long time. Basically 40 years of pure suckitude.

I can see why their fans would rather act like the world was invented in 1972. You know they're thankful the Browns never played their asses when we were in the AAFC, that would have been an annihilation.

yeah, that's true..........bout 40 years of ass-nasty football.

unfortunately for you, the browns are halfway there now...............and that's in the modern era of football with parity.

good god i'm glad i'm not a fan of your god forsaken franchise. hey, if you wanna count quasi championships won before 80% of you were even born, be my guest. god love you, you gotta find SOMETHING to talk about............talking about how bad your team sucks for the past 2 decades would just get boring.

i think if the Pirates finish with a winning season this year it will actually make you guys the worst sports franchise in the entire US as far as winning seasons go.

that's just plain funny right there.

Just did some quick math from http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/football/profootball/pittsburghseason.html and came up with the numbers above. My gawd did this team suck balls for a long time. Basically 40 years of pure suckitude.

I can see why their fans would rather act like the world was invented in 1972. You know they're thankful the Browns never played their asses when we were in the AAFC, that would have been an annihilation.

The 1930s represented an important time of transition for the NFL. League membership was fluid prior to the mid 1930s. 1936 was the first year where there were no franchise moves, prior to that year 51 teams had gone defunct. In 1941, the NFL named its first Commissioner, Elmer Layden. The new office replaced that of President. Layden held the job for five years, before being replaced by Pittsburgh Steelers co-owner Bert Bell in 1946.

During World War II, a player shortage led to a shrinking of the league as several teams folded and others merged. Among the short-lived merged teams were the Steagles (Pittsburgh and Philadelphia) in 1943, the Card-Pitts (Chicago Cardinals and Pittsburgh) in 1944, and a team formed from the merger of the Brooklyn Dodgers and the Boston Yanks in 1945.

1946 was an important year in the history of professional football, as that was the year when the league integrated. The Los Angeles Rams signed two African American players, Kenny Washington and Woody Strode. Also that year, a competing league, the All-America Football Conference (AAFC), began operation.

During the 1950s, additional teams entered the league. In 1950, the AAFC folded, and three teams from that league were absorbed into the NFL: the Cleveland Browns (who had won the AAFC Championship every year of the league's existence), the San Francisco 49ers, and the Baltimore Colts (not the same as the modern franchise, this version folded after one year). The remaining players were chosen by the now 13 NFL teams in a dispersal draft. Also in 1950, the Los Angeles Rams became the first team to televise its entire schedule, marking the beginning of an important relationship between television and professional football. In 1952, the Dallas Texans went defunct, becoming the last NFL franchise to do so. The following year a new Baltimore Colts franchise formed to take over the assets of the Texans. The players' union, known as the NFL Players Association, formed in 1956.

-wikipedia

i guess teams like the niners and colts don't having anything listed in their history of playing in those leagues as well?

yeah i wouldn't want to claim any knowledge of the early nfl (and other leagues preceding it), if i knew my team's heritage was as mixed as a drunken whore's ofspring (rooneys?).

steagles and cardpitts. :lol: :lol:

why don't you have this guy name your next team:

@kosar_for_president said:

Who the fuck said that? I count the titles the BROWNS won in the 60's I've made this point several times, but you are apparently blinded by the polluted air in Shitburgh. There were 14-16 teams when the Browns won those titles, the same amount of teams that were in the NBA when the Celtics won their titles with Russell. Those titles are still hanging from the rafters at the Garden.

put on your bifocals...........that way you can read.

i didn't say YOU claimed them, i said i've heard cleveland fans claim them..............MANY times.

but that dosen't really matter except in the case of my church's flag football championship.......the Passion and the Power's championships still count though. both are champions in pro leagues............just sayin.

@gafreleets said:

i've heard cleveland fans claim championships from teams not even in the cleveland area, and claim titles in "pro" leagues where some of the teams didn't pay their players

Who the fuck said that? I count the titles the BROWNS won in the 60's I've made this point several times, but you are apparently blinded by the polluted air in Shitburgh. There were 14-16 teams when the Browns won those titles, the same amount of teams that were in the NBA when the Celtics won their titles with Russell. Those titles are still hanging from the rafters at the Garden.

@kosar_for_president said:

Ahh only a Steeler fag would suggest this.

i've heard cleveland fans claim championships from teams not even in the cleveland area, and claim titles in "pro" leagues where some of the teams didn't pay their players.........so i don't know why it would be any more ludicrous to include an actual recognized professional women's team.

not to mention that Pittsburgh's men's arena team won the championship last year......trust me, those guys are a hell of alot closer to pros than the Ackron Bulldogs or whoever you guys try to claim as your grand champions.

so including the Pittsburgh Passion's title, the Power's Title, and my church league title Pittsburgh's actual title count is at least 18.

like i said, if we're gonna count quasi pro, defunct leagues, and all proffesional sports (including women's) then lets do it right and count them all.

@gafreleets said:

while i won't debate the validity of any of the championships you "claim" for cleveland, i just wanted to make you aware that your stats for Pittsburgh are off.

if you're going to include championships from quasi professional leagues that 80% of the teams no longer exist then you must include the Pittsburgh Passion's women's pro football team that won the championship last year (either last year or year before).....also while you're at it me and my buddies from church held the first annual church league flag football championship tourny...........where a Pittsburgh area team beat the Rogers Ohio Plowmen 35-17 in the finals.

so the final count for Pittsburgh championships is actually higher and the last time we won would be this year.

hey, if we're gonna count quasi championships for defunct or semi pro leagues then lets do it up right.

swings and misses. strike one.

@gafreleets said:

must include the Pittsburgh Passion's women's pro football team that won the championship last year (either last year or year before).....

Ahh only a Steeler fag would suggest this.

if you're going to include championships from quasi professional leagues that 80% of the teams no longer exist then you must include the Pittsburgh Passion's women's pro football team that won the championship last year (either last year or year before).....also while you're at it me and my buddies from church held the first annual church league flag football championship tourny...........where a Pittsburgh area team beat the Rogers Ohio Plowmen 35-17 in the finals.

so the final count for Pittsburgh championships is actually higher and the last time we won would be this year.

hey, if we're gonna count quasi championships for defunct or semi pro leagues then lets do it up right.

@the-gipper said:

Not sure of where you get your info. Yes, nothing since 1964, but between 1948 and 1964 the Browns won in 1949, 1950, 1954 and 1955.

Yeah, duh. I knew that but I wasn't sober when I wrote that and was being stupid. I wasn't around for the glory days and they often fly over my head and I can only remember the last Browns' championship and the Tribe's last world series victory. Thanks for correcting me

@hoorta said:

Hehe. Steeler fans wouldn't like it. The history of the NFL began in 1970, don't ya know?

Really, there's no one alive that remembers those leagues. In fact until you brought it up, I didn't even know those leagues existed.

They were considered "major leagues" along with the National League that played in the 1800s.

We only generally count baseball titles from the point in time that the American League was formed in 1901 or when the World Series started in 1903. But the NL started in 1876.

See this link which lists the champion of each league, including the Federal and A.A. etc. (but not the winners of the AL/NL World Series)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/

@the-gipper said:

Not sure why. This is just basic raw factual data. I have included titles won in all major leagues including NFL/AFL/AAFC/MLB/NBA/ABA/NHL/WHA.

The only argument could be that I haven't included enough. E.g. this count does include pre-NHL Stanley Cups, but it does not include Pre-World Series baseball titles won in the likes of the National League, Federal League, American Association. Perhaps it should.

Hehe. Steeler fans wouldn't like it. The history of the NFL began in 1970, don't ya know?

Really, there's no one alive that remembers those leagues. In fact until you brought it up, I didn't even know those leagues existed.

@miktoxic said:

i can't wait the little piddle paddle of the trolls' footsteps as they smell this thread from a mile away.

talk about baiting the line.....

Not sure why. This is just basic raw factual data. I have included titles won in all major leagues including NFL/AFL/AAFC/MLB/NBA/ABA/NHL/WHA.

The only argument could be that I haven't included enough. E.g. this count does include pre-NHL Stanley Cups, but it does not include Pre-World Series baseball titles won in the likes of the National League, Federal League, American Association. Perhaps it should.

@blowe said:

Cleveland is at #9 and has only seen 1 championship since 1948, and none after 1964. That is both impressive and depressing at the same time.

Not sure of where you get your info. Yes, nothing since 1964, but between 1948 and 1964 the Browns won in 1949, 1950, 1954 and 1955.