@miktoxic said:

ok. you can teach how to lift stacks, and i can teach how to lift drafts(s) beer that is.

Sounds good to me.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Me too, let's start a club.

ok. you can teach how to lift stacks, and i can teach how to lift drafts(s) beer that is.

@miktoxic said:

and i'm still roid free!

Me too, let's start a club.

@miktoxic said:

and i'm still roid free!

Me too, let's start a club.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Today is a big day in mik's life.

He's finally right about something.

and i'm still roid free!

He's finally right about something.

@harry-buffalo said:

Even if he did fail a third at Utah, which I doubt considering the circumstances of who came out with the info and when, he still admitted to the two he got at Baylor in the post draft interview he had with Cleveland media.

Oh and when it comes down to it I will always believe a person face to face over some anonymous people who are not willing to give their names.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/07/despite_a_report_browns_receiv.html

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d84wL?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=cleveland-browns

ok, now what ya got to say?

@ballpeen said:

Tebow will start over Sanchez by week 4 or 5.

Several starting jobs will be up for grabs. Sanchez/Kolb/Flynn/Gabbert/Moore even the Browns. I just went with the projected starters.

@the-gipper said:

Here is the breakdown of the projected 32 NFL starting QBs this fall, and the conferences from whence they come:

The Pac-12: 7: Sanchez USC, Moore Ore St., Luck Stanford, Rodgers Cal, Cassell USC, Smith Utah now in Pac 12, Palmer USC

SEC: 6: Flynn LSU, P.Manning Tenn., Stafford Georgia, Cutler Vanderbilt, Newton Auburn, E.Manning Ole Miss

ACC: 6: Rivers NC St., Schaub Va. Tech, Ponder FSU, Hasselback BC, Ryan BC, Vick Va. Tech.

Big 12: 6: Bradford OK, Weeden OK St., Dalton TCU now in B-12, Freeman KSU, Gabbert Mizz., Griffin Baylor

Big 10: 2 Brady Michigan, Brees Purdue

Conference USA: 1 Kolb Houston

MAC: 1 Roethlisberger Miami,O.

Ivy: Fitzpatrick Harvard

Small schools: Flacco Delaware, Romo Eastern Illinois

(So, the Big 12 seems to be holding its own at producing QBs.....It is the Big Ten that seems to be lagging off.)

Tebow will start over Sanchez by week 4 or 5.

@hunt-daddy said:

This doesn't change anything about your breakdown because it's still ACC. But Schaub went to UVA not Virginia Tech. I'm a UVA fan and I take major offense to that buddy.

Don't disrespect the great UVA with that disgusting Virginia Tech nonsense.

Sorry, I was going from memory. At least I got the right state.

So, a new era can come along at any time. Maybe Baylor can become somewhat of a powerhouse. If smaller, private colleges like Miami and Notre Dame can do it, so might a Baylor if they are able to attract talent.

Nothing says "come to our school to play football" like showing top notch recruits things like Heisman Trophies, high first round draft picks, multiple first and second round draft picks. Phil Taylor, RGIII, Wright, Gordon, etc. etc. all say "screw Texas and Oklahoma come to Baylor and become an NFL spotlighted prospect".

Don't disrespect the great UVA with that disgusting Virginia Tech nonsense.

and yes the big ten is slipping. i can't remember the last time ohio state had a good QB.

The Pac-12: 7: Sanchez USC, Moore Ore St., Luck Stanford, Rodgers Cal, Cassell USC, Smith Utah now in Pac 12, Palmer USC

SEC: 6: Flynn LSU, P.Manning Tenn., Stafford Georgia, Cutler Vanderbilt, Newton Auburn, E.Manning Ole Miss

ACC: 6: Rivers NC St., Schaub Va. Tech, Ponder FSU, Hasselback BC, Ryan BC, Vick Va. Tech.

Big 12: 6: Bradford OK, Weeden OK St., Dalton TCU now in B-12, Freeman KSU, Gabbert Mizz., Griffin Baylor

Big 10: 2 Brady Michigan, Brees Purdue

Conference USA: 1 Kolb Houston

MAC: 1 Roethlisberger Miami,O.

Ivy: Fitzpatrick Harvard

Small schools: Flacco Delaware, Romo Eastern Illinois

(So, the Big 12 seems to be holding its own at producing QBs.....It is the Big Ten that seems to be lagging off.)

@miktoxic said:

if you look back at my post about the schools i never said they couldn't produce good players i said when did baylor and utah all of a sudden become the benchmark for measuring talent.

I don't know that they are the benchmark for producing good talent. I am not the one that said they were. On the other hand, why not? What schools have good talent is an evolutionary thing. When I was younger, Miami Fla. was a nothing school when it came to football. They were a low level independent. Sometime in the early 80s that all changed and they began producing great talent. The same was true for Virginia Tech and several other schools. They evolved into a place where really good talent came from. Maybe Baylor is reaching that point now....becoming "a place" to go for good talented players. The opposite has occurred as well. SMU was a powerhouse before the death penalty was applied to them. Now, perhaps, some of that SMU type talent may be going to Baylor.

it was a crack concerning all the hoopla over RGIII and kendall wright this past year. i know phil taylor will be badly missed this year by the browns. and to hoorta's point: i never said all these small schools suck they just aren't the perrenial 'pick a player, any player' type of school that produces top notch players across the board. penn state was once known as linebacker U, miami as wide receiver U. if i were a betting man i'd take a player who plays against great talent every week and produces big time over a player who plays against scrubs and puts up great numbers.

Except, of course, it appears you would lose your bet based on the production of those players that came from the likes of Kutztown, MVSU, Memphis, S.F. Austin etc.

the ONLY SEC guy on the entire list was Whines Hard.

i know college talent doesn't necessarily mean NFL talent. BUT what i saw of alabama's defense against LSU in the national championship game.......if i had my druthers i'd swap out the whole browns defense and fill every position with that defense. guaranteed within a year they'd be top 5 in the NFL.

we picked a QB from the big 12 a couple of years ago who had great college stats and just drafted another who was more interested in baseball until he realized he couldn't cut it and played 2 years in college. so i guess the big 12 is now the QB conference?

Again, perhaps it is evolutionary. Historically,The Big 12 has NOT been a hotbed of quality NFL QBs (but then, neither has Ohio State). In the history of the Super Bowl the Big 12 produced one single SB starting QB: Vince Ferragamo. And he spent two years at UCLA before transferring...and of course, Nebraska where he played is no longer a Big 12 school (though it might have been known as The Big 8 when he played there)

However, now, perhaps the Big 12 is producing some good NFL QBs. You will have Big 12 starting QBs perhaps in the following locales: Redskins, Bengals, Browns, Jags, Dolphins (if Tanehill starts), Rams, maybe more.

i know college talent doesn't necessarily mean NFL talent. BUT what i saw of alabama's defense against LSU in the national championship game.......if i had my druthers i'd swap out the whole browns defense and fill every position with that defense. guaranteed within a year they'd be top 5 in the NFL.

we picked a QB from the big 12 a couple of years ago who had great college stats and just drafted another who was more interested in baseball until he realized he couldn't cut it and played 2 years in college. so i guess the big 12 is now the QB conference?

1. Warren Wells 23.1 1964-1970 2TM

2. Ken Kavanaugh 22.4 1940-1950 chi

3. Homer Jones 22.3 1964-1970 2TM

4. Mal Kutner 21.1 1946-1950 crd

5. Buddy Dial 20.8 1959-1966 2TM

6. Cloyce Box 20.7 1949-1954 det

7. Bob Boyd 20.5 1950-1957 ram

8. Harlon Hill 20.2 1954-1962 3TM

9. Flipper Anderson 20.1 1988-1997 4TM

Paul Warfield+ 20.1 1964-1977 2TM

11. Bill Groman 20.0 1960-1965 3TM

Bob Hayes+ 20.0 1965-1975 2TM

13. Willie Gault 19.9 1983-1993 2TM

14. Jimmy Orr 19.8 1958-1970 2TM

15. Ray Renfro 19.6 1952-1963 cle

16. Dokie Williams 19.4 1983-1987 rai

17. Hugh Taylor 19.2 1947-1954 was

Stanley Morgan 19.2 1977-1990 2TM

19. Wesley Walker 19.0 1977-1989 nyj

20. Lance Alworth+ 18.9 1962-1972 2TM

Mel Gray 18.9 1971-1982 crd

Carroll Dale

Interestingly, not a single one of the players on the most catches list appears on this list.

What that seems to tell me is that, though the modern game is more pass oriented....it is oriented toward the shorter pass routes.

I didn't list him here because he is not in the top 20, but the next guy on this list is Mike Wallace of the Steelers who has an 18.7 ypc avg.

Does this make him the top "home run hitter" in the league? Perhaps. But it seems that the long bomb is not as prevalent in today's game as in years past.

I think NFL GMs look at the player first, not the school. It just happens that the really good players at certain positions seem to go to certain schools......but when it comes to WRs any decent GM would NOT necessarily look to the SEC....or necessarily the big conferences.

Here is the list of the Top 20 receivers (by number of catches) and the schools they went to:

Jerry Rice: Mississippi Valley St.

Tony Gonzales: Cal

Marvin Harrison: Syracuse

Cris Carter: Ohio St.

Tim Brown: Notre Dame

Terrell Owens: Tennessee-Chattanooga

Isaac Bruce: Memphis

Hines Ward: Georgia

Randy Moss: Marshall

Andre Reed: Kutztown St. Pa.

Derrick Mason: Michigan St.

Art Monk: Syracuse

Torry Holt: NC St.

Keenan McCardell: UNLV

Jimmy Smith: Jackson St.

Reggie Wayne: Miami Fla.

Muhsin Muhammed: Michigan St.

Irving Fryar: Nebraska

Rod Smith: Missouri Southern

Larry Centers: S.F. Austin

As one can tell, there are far more small college players on this list than SEC players... or most other big conferences.

So the fact that a Mississippi Valley St. can produce the best WR ever, and that Kutztown and S.F. Austin or Chattanooga can do so shows CLEARLY that a Baylor or a Utah could do no worse.

As I see it, the problem is not that the likes of Gordon went to Baylor, but that none of these top WRs have played for the Browns.

(Note, of course that the top WR numbers by catches is heavily weighted toward more recent players due to the proliferation of the passing game)

"gee gus, the weedster just smoked a ball to the weedhead for a TD!!!"

@miktoxic said:

no. it's an opinion. my opinion is that if i were a GM and needed a defensive gem wouldn't you look at alabama or lsu first (last year)?

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d80kJ?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=cleveland-browns

Even if he did fail a third at Utah, which I doubt considering the circumstances of who came out with the info and when, he still admitted to the two he got at Baylor in the post draft interview he had with Cleveland media.

Oh and when it comes down to it I will always believe a person face to face over some anonymous people who are not willing to give their names.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/07/despite_a_report_browns_receiv.html