hell....the queen lifted us to our first win in forever against the stools. ya think they weren't looking ahead?

@gips said:

Until the browns start kicking their asses the stoolers, bungals nor the ratbirds will pay any mind to playing the browns..

To them its just another easy win until they are rudely awakened and one or two of them is soundly beaten then they "may" pay attention..

So its business as usual in the afcn until the browns wipe "easy win" from our rivals vocabulary..

And even once the browns start to win then comes the question of rather our coaches are capable of continuously matching wits against the likes of the great coaches of the AFCN and winning consistently because once we arent considered cream puffs these teams are going to bring their A game every game..

Lots of unanswered questions but i am looking forward to filling in the blanks as this season rolls on..

Well, this is where I say you are wrong. I believe the other teams in the division DO bring their "A game" to the table right now when they play the Browns. I don't believe for a second that they slack off when the play the Browns.

Here is a clue for all y'all: the difference in talent between the best and worst teams in the league is the thin edge of a blade. These other teams know that if they don't bring their A game to every game, they will get beat. Any slight thing can dull that edge: an injury, overconfidence, a couple of talented players, a short lapse in concentration anything. On Any Given Sunday, as they say.

If the Bengals and Steelers and Ravens were not giving their best performances the Browns would be beating them regularly. Yes, they went 0-6 against the division last year, but in reality, in only one of those games were the Browns beat handily.....it was THAT game that was the aberration.

If the Browns simply sharpen their blade a little, it is they who can be doing the cutting, not their opponents.

To them its just another easy win until they are rudely awakened and one or two of them is soundly beaten then they "may" pay attention..

So its business as usual in the afcn until the browns wipe "easy win" from our rivals vocabulary..

And even once the browns start to win then comes the question of rather our coaches are capable of continuously matching wits against the likes of the great coaches of the AFCN and winning consistently because once we arent considered cream puffs these teams are going to bring their A game every game..

Lots of unanswered questions but i am looking forward to filling in the blanks as this season rolls on..

@poeticg said:

I just hope that Phil Taylor comes back strong and healthy and ready to maul people!

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http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/7/18/3168652/adkins-dt-phil-taylor-is-doing-remarkably-well

Adkins: DT Phil Taylor is Doing "Remarkably Well"

by Chris Pokorny on Jul 18, 2012 9:53 PM EDT

13 comments

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Matt Sullivan - Getty ImagesMore photos ».

On Monday, Lane Adkins of the OBR posted an optimistic update about Cleveland Browns defensive tackle Phil Taylor on his Twitter account. He said that Taylor is "doing remarkably well" and "could be ready to play in ten weeks." You read that right -- not practice, but play. Adkins says that he understands it sounds like a huge case of optimism for Taylor, but that he was told that Taylor's pectoral injury was no where near as serious as D'Qwell Jackson's from a couple years back.

Ten weeks from Monday make Taylor available for the team's Week 3 game against the Buffalo Bills or the team's Week 4 game (which takes place four days later) against the Baltimore Ravens. It'll be interesting to see whether Taylor begins the season on the 53-man roster or the physically unable to perform list. If they place him on the PUP, the earliest he could play is Week 7 against the Indianapolis Colts. The disadvantage of placing him on the PUP is that he cannot practice for the first six weeks of the season. If he is not on the PUP, he could start practicing, for example, in Week 3, and be ready to play a few weeks later. Either way, it's good to hear there haven't been any setbacks for Taylor to this point.

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All righty then. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope this assessment is accurate. I agree it is possible that he may be available by the 3rd/4t/5th week of the season, then you definitely want him out on the practice field....not somewhere jerking off.

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http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2012/7/18/3168652/adkins-dt-phil-taylor-is-doing-remarkably-well

Adkins: DT Phil Taylor is Doing "Remarkably Well"

by Chris Pokorny on Jul 18, 2012 9:53 PM EDT

13 comments

Email

Print

.

Matt Sullivan - Getty ImagesMore photos ».

On Monday, Lane Adkins of the OBR posted an optimistic update about Cleveland Browns defensive tackle Phil Taylor on his Twitter account. He said that Taylor is "doing remarkably well" and "could be ready to play in ten weeks." You read that right -- not practice, but play. Adkins says that he understands it sounds like a huge case of optimism for Taylor, but that he was told that Taylor's pectoral injury was no where near as serious as D'Qwell Jackson's from a couple years back.

Ten weeks from Monday make Taylor available for the team's Week 3 game against the Buffalo Bills or the team's Week 4 game (which takes place four days later) against the Baltimore Ravens. It'll be interesting to see whether Taylor begins the season on the 53-man roster or the physically unable to perform list. If they place him on the PUP, the earliest he could play is Week 7 against the Indianapolis Colts. The disadvantage of placing him on the PUP is that he cannot practice for the first six weeks of the season. If he is not on the PUP, he could start practicing, for example, in Week 3, and be ready to play a few weeks later. Either way, it's good to hear there haven't been any setbacks for Taylor to this point.

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@calfoxwc said:

But isn't the one player that has an impact with a team that is weak overall.

This last draft, + Gordon... sealed the deal of a complete team to be able to compete

in all phases of the game.

Able to.

It isn't just the RB, obviously. Think of it as a dam, that has all sorts of leaks.

But, a few years later, 90% of the leaks are fixed. But a few persist.

Then, every single leak is FIXED. Dam leaks no more.

Going to be a big difference, I think.

In theory, yes. These guys all have to: a. live up to their capabilities and b. stay healthy. The latter always seems to be an issue with the Browns..

This last draft, + Gordon... sealed the deal of a complete team to be able to compete

in all phases of the game.

Able to.

It isn't just the RB, obviously. Think of it as a dam, that has all sorts of leaks.

But, a few years later, 90% of the leaks are fixed. But a few persist.

Then, every single leak is FIXED. Dam leaks no more.

Going to be a big difference, I think.

@calfoxwc said:

Not scared... but got their attention. Sure the Browns got that attention.

Of course a lot of players watch the draft. When the Browns drafted just Richardson,

I'll bet a lot of opponent players said "yep. The Browns solved the rb problem with a kickass rb. Now watch,

they'll finally draft a RT. That will suck. No more easy money with the Browns defeats."

Attention. The scared will be when they actually are getting hammered and wishing they were playing the Browns

of three years ago.

Not any more.

Fair enough. However we have gotten people's attention before (Eric Metcalf, 2007 draft) and it turned into nothing. We need to start scaring people now.

Of course a lot of players watch the draft. When the Browns drafted just Richardson,

I'll bet a lot of opponent players said "yep. The Browns solved the rb problem with a kickass rb. Now watch,

they'll finally draft a RT. That will suck. No more easy money with the Browns defeats."

Attention. The scared will be when they actually are getting hammered and wishing they were playing the Browns

of three years ago.

Not any more.

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

The Browns will sweep the Bengals and Steelers, split with Blow-two-more, and go to the playoffs at 10 -6.

If Weeden steps in and rocks it from the start, I don't think this is a stretch at all. The pieces are there. They just gotta fit, and when they do, be it 2012 or 2013, hang on friends! It's gonna be fun...

I can't wait for Cleveland Browns Stadium to finally be a place opposing teams fear. The fans are going to be insane. Welcome to Thunderdome bitch!

glaring weaknesses they could take advantage of and win the game.

Now, those weaknesses are gone. New players, yes, but the drafting has been to field

a Browns team complete with SMART draft picks. That has been lacking. Why the hell the other "coaches" and FO's

ignored the right tackle is beyond me and a lot of Browns' fans. Why they drafted head cases like Braylon, and losers

like Junkin, etc... the list is long.

No more. Now the Browns have been drafting brilliantly. And I don't see any major weaknesses that the squeelers and ratbirds can laugh

about anymore. Just a lot of brilliant drafting decisions, seems to me, to fill those weaknesses, and make the Browns more competitive, to

put it mildly.

I'm not sure how to rate the differences, but everybodey knows that I value the addition of the RT highly. But Little AND Gordon AND Weeden AND

RICHARDSON AND ... the list goes on, including PInkston's going to a camp to redefine his physique and get in serious football shape....

It will be a different, dynamic offense, early on maybe, or later when they get rolling. They'll miss Taylor, though, on defense, but with a couple of smart picks

to strengthen that area...

The division opponents will take serious notice soon..

The Soldier said:

Listen, Good teams don't worry about what other teams are doing. The Ravens, Steelers, Patirots, etc. play thier own game. They don't switch offensive philosophys, defensive styles and team directions every other year.

Every year they draft low and the still hit on picks. They know what they're doing.

Winning seasons aren't flukes. They are the norm for these teams.

You're talking about the Browns worrying other teams before camp starts?

To be considered an elite team, the Browns need to put together several years of winning and championships. Actuall winning. Nothing else.

And there are always the "one year wonders". The Seahawks, the Cardinals... That doesn't make an organization successful.

When the Browns put together several winning seasons, develop a reputation for a style of play, and are consistantly challenging for a championship, THEN other teams will take notice.

Actually, no. These others teams will take notice of the Browns each and every time they play them. Teams spend their entire week planning and devising ways to beat their opponent that week.

The question is not whether or not their opponents will take notice...they will. It is whether or not the public at large will take notice. The National Media etc.

A team has to do all those things you point out to get national cred, not the attention of their division opponents.

I honestly don't think that the Steelers/Ravens/Bengals have ever taken the Browns for granted. If they had, the Browns division record would not have been a poor as it has been for them lately. Those teams paid attention to the Browns and by better talent/coaching/scheme whatever were able to do their jobs and beat the Browns.

The question is: when will the time come that despite their division opponents having given their full time and attention to the Browns, that the Browns can beat them anyway.

Every year they draft low and the still hit on picks. They know what they're doing.

Winning seasons aren't flukes. They are the norm for these teams.

You're talking about the Browns worrying other teams before camp starts?

To be considered an elite team, the Browns need to put together several years of winning and championships. Actuall winning. Nothing else.

And there are always the "one year wonders". The Seahawks, the Cardinals... That doesn't make an organization successful.

When the Browns put together several winning seasons, develop a reputation for a style of play, and are consistantly challenging for a championship, THEN other teams will take notice.

Endymion said:

Ben was hurt in the first meeting of our two teams (sometime around the end of 1st/early 2nd quarter). He really didn't have a good game afterwards until the Denver play-offs. Before he got hurt he was moving the ball effectively against the Browns defense. The Steeler defense should be between the top 5-10 this year, but it will take a bit of a hit versus 2011. If the offense doesn't improve to top 10 status the Steelers probably aren't making the play-offs.

Oh, OK, he was hurt in that first matchup. Did he even play in that second game?

I guess we could argue that it was OUR QB who was the one who got hurt worse...and that you only pulled off those wins vs. the Browns because we lost him for the season. It works both ways you know.

I feel that your team's offense will average between 14 and 17 offensive points per game with Weeden at the helm for the 2012, this is up from your offensive average in 2011 (of roughly 13.5).

If they had averaged 17 ppg last year, that would be the difference in 3-4 more wins. So, logically, if they average 17 wins this year, they may win 3-4 more games, n'est ce pas?

Weeden and company will probably look horrible the 1st four games of the season. Will your coach whether that storm or revert to McCoy?

For all we know it will be McCoy starting those first 4 games....and then the handoff may be to Weeden. Nothing is set in stone that BW3 will be starting right away.

If he goes McCoy, any hope for the season is really lost and he might be jeopardizing 2013 as well. Weeden's your franchise QB, and his style is not McCoy's style. You have to ride the Weeden horse and he won't be developing effectively behind McCoy.

It's hard to look at last year's scores as any definitive guide to how this year scores will be. Averages and actual scores can vary wildy. The Browns are essentially making a major offensive overhaul, so you can't really expect the offensive to put up "better" numbers than last year.

Au contraire, we expect just that....because we can't see how it can be any worse.

You can hope they progressively improve through-out the year. The Browns defense hasn't changed much, so you can expect it to be no worse than last year. Roughly, the Browns gave up 19 points per game defensively in 2011.

So let's say under Weeden in 2012 you average 15.5 points per game offensively and give up 18 points per game defensively. Your games may be close or wildly lopsided, despite these improvements I'm suggesting.

UH, listen to your statement...."your games will be close or lopsided". Is there any other choice?

You are still giving up more points than you are earning, which means the Browns will be losing games more often than not. Until your offense gets to 21 points per game or more, you can't dream of play-offs/owning the division.

And who is to say they can't average 21 points per game? Despite the "greenness" of all these players, I don't think anyone here automatically thinks there will be limitations set on them. Yes, it is prudent not to expect to much....but it is pernicious to expect too little.

The goal for next season is to get Weeden to average 21 or more points per game in the last 4-6 games of the season. Period. Regardless of actual wins or losses, if Weeden gets to that average as I've stated, the Browns will not be bottom feeders in the AFCN in 2013.

Or, in 2012 if they can get there.....as Weeden is not alone. A big burden of this offense will be placed on the shoulders of Trent Richardson

@the-gipper said:

The issue...as my post pointed out, is whether or not this offense with all this green fodder on it can still eke out perhaps as much as an extra FG...or TD per game. With an extra FG in some games the record last year could have been 7-9. With an extra TD it could have been 8-8 or 9-7.

As for controlling BR, they have done that before in games in which he was not hurt. In the game earlier in the year the Steelers scored all of 14 points with BR healthy. And they scored 13 points with him hurt. As always, it is the Steelers defense that pulls that team through.

Ben was hurt in the first meeting of our two teams (sometime around the end of 1st/early 2nd quarter). He really didn't have a good game afterwards until the Denver play-offs. Before he got hurt he was moving the ball effectively against the Browns defense. The Steeler defense should be between the top 5-10 this year, but it will take a bit of a hit versus 2011. If the offense doesn't improve to top 10 status the Steelers probably aren't making the play-offs.

I feel that your team's offense will average between 14 and 17 offensive points per game with Weeden at the helm for the 2012, this is up from your offensive average in 2011 (of roughly 13.5). Weeden and company will probably look horrible the 1st four games of the season. Will your coach whether that storm or revert to McCoy? If he goes McCoy, any hope for the season is really lost and he might be jeopardizing 2013 as well. Weeden's your franchise QB, and his style is not McCoy's style. You have to ride the Weeden horse and he won't be developing effectively behind McCoy.

It's hard to look at last year's scores as any definitive guide to how this year scores will be. Averages and actual scores can vary wildy. The Browns are essentially making a major offensive overhaul, so you can't really expect the offensive to put up "better" numbers than last year. You can hope they progressively improve through-out the year. The Browns defense hasn't changed much, so you can expect it to be no worse than last year. Roughly, the Browns gave up 19 points per game defensively in 2011.

So let's say under Weeden in 2012 you average 15.5 points per game offensively and give up 18 points per game defensively. Your games may be close or wildly lopsided, despite these improvements I'm suggesting. You are still giving up more points than you are earning, which means the Browns will be losing games more often than not. Until your offense gets to 21 points per game or more, you can't dream of play-offs/owning the division. The goal for next season is to get Weeden to average 21 or more points per game in the last 4-6 games of the season. Period. Regardless of actual wins or losses, if Weeden gets to that average as I've stated, the Browns will not be bottom feeders in the AFCN in 2013.

Endymion said:

Short answer, NO. In answer to the original question (thread title), NO. The Browns are projected to be last in the division, and barring a miracle (for Cleveland) that's where the Browns will end up. All your skill positions on offense are GREEN. They will make mistakes, lots of mistakes. Those mistakes will cost you games.

The hope for the Browns in 2012 is not a play-off run, the hope is that your skill players will not be GREEN in 2013. Weeden doesn't have a long NFL career projection, he needs to go from rookie to grizzled veteran by 2013. He doesn't have an all-star cast around him, he has rookies and second year players. He doesn't have a coach with an established offensive system in place.

Your defense should be able to keep your team in games, I'm not sure your offense can. Once a team gets a lead, your opponents will run the ball and drain the clock. A more telling stat based on last years performance is the points opposing teams put up. You'll probably need to score more than 14-17 points to win games and there aren't that many teams you've held to under 14 points. The Steelers were held in check by the Browns last year mainly because of the injury they applied to Ben Roethlisberger.

Well, you are describing last year's team to a T. Yes, the Browns will indeed be "Green" this year, and yes, the belief is that they must have a year to mature (even Weeden). And yes, the offensive system in place by this coach is highly questionable.

But: I am not so worried about Weeden's longevity. Only 4 QBs in Browns history have had as much as 5 years as the primary starter. (OG, Ryan, Sipe, Kosar). We will take 5 years of a good QB instead of a string of 1-2 years with bad QBs.

The issue...as my post pointed out, is whether or not this offense with all this green fodder on it can still eke out perhaps as much as an extra FG...or TD per game. With an extra FG in some games the record last year could have been 7-9. With an extra TD it could have been 8-8 or 9-7.

As for controlling BR, they have done that before in games in which he was not hurt. In the game earlier in the year the Steelers scored all of 14 points with BR healthy. And they scored 13 points with him hurt.

As always, it is the Steelers defense that pulls that team through.

Endymion said:

Short answer, BLAH. Blah blah blahblah blah (blah blahblah), BLAH. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah, BLAH. Blah blah blahblah blah blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah.

Blah blah blahblah blahBlah blah blahblah blahBlah blah blahblah blah BLAH blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah.

Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah. Blah blah blahblah blah blahblahblah blah blah blah blahblah blah, blah blahblalblahblah blah blahblahty blah blah Ben Roethlisberger.

Thanks for your input. It was sorely needed.

Zombo

@the-gipper said:

Notice the games the Browns lost by less than a TD, highlighted. Will the additions to the offense now allow them to make up those differences? Note that many of those were against division opponents. Can the gap be closing?

(yes, I also know they won games by narrow margins as well.)

Short answer, NO. In answer to the original question (thread title), NO. The Browns are projected to be last in the division, and barring a miracle (for Cleveland) that's where the Browns will end up. All your skill positions on offense are GREEN. They will make mistakes, lots of mistakes. Those mistakes will cost you games.

The hope for the Browns in 2012 is not a play-off run, the hope is that your skill players will not be GREEN in 2013. Weeden doesn't have a long NFL career projection, he needs to go from rookie to grizzled veteran by 2013. He doesn't have an all-star cast around him, he has rookies and second year players. He doesn't have a coach with an established offensive system in place.

Your defense should be able to keep your team in games, I'm not sure your offense can. Once a team gets a lead, your opponents will run the ball and drain the clock. A more telling stat based on last years performance is the points opposing teams put up. You'll probably need to score more than 14-17 points to win games and there aren't that many teams you've held to under 14 points. The Steelers were held in check by the Browns last year mainly because of the injury they applied to Ben Roethlisberger.

recap

Final score Team record

1 September 11 1:00 p.m. Cincinnati Bengals L 17–27 0–1 Cleveland Browns Stadium CBS Recap

2 September 18 1:00 p.m. at Indianapolis Colts W 27–19 1–1 Lucas Oil Stadium CBS Recap

3 September 25 1:00 p.m. Miami Dolphins W 17–16 2–1 Cleveland Browns Stadium CBS Recap

4 October 2 1:00 p.m. Tennessee Titans L 13–31 2–2 Cleveland Browns Stadium CBS Recap

5 Bye

6 October 16 4:05 p.m. at Oakland Raiders L 17–24 2–3 O.co Coliseum CBS Recap

7 October 23 1:00 p.m. Seattle Seahawks W 6–3 3–3 Cleveland Browns Stadium Fox Recap

8 October 30 4:15 p.m. at San Francisco 49ers L 10–20 3–4 Candlestick Park CBS Recap

9 November 6 1:00 p.m. at Houston Texans L 12–30 3–5 Reliant Stadium CBS Recap

10 November 13 1:00 p.m. St. Louis Rams L 12–13 3–6 Cleveland Browns Stadium Fox Recap

11 November 20 1:00 p.m. Jacksonville Jaguars W 14–10 4–6 Cleveland Browns Stadium CBS Recap

12 November 27 1:00 p.m. at Cincinnati Bengals L 20–23 4–7 Paul Brown Stadium CBS Recap

13 December 4 4:05 p.m.[45] Baltimore Ravens L 10–24 4–8 Cleveland Browns Stadium CBS Recap

14 December 8 8:20 p.m. at Pittsburgh Steelers L 3–14 4–9 Heinz Field NFLN Recap

15 December 18 4:15 p.m. at Arizona Cardinals L 17–20 (OT) 4–10 University of Phoenix Stadium CBS Recap

16 December 24 1:00 p.m. at Baltimore Ravens L 14–20 4–11 M&T Bank Stadium CBS Recap

17 January 1 4:15 p.m.[46] Pittsburgh Steelers L 9–13 4–12 Cleveland Browns Stadium CBS Recap

LEGEND:

Notice the games the Browns lost by less than a TD, highlighted. Will the additions to the offense now allow them to make up those differences? Note that many of those were against division opponents. Can the gap be closing?

(yes, I also know they won games by narrow margins as well.)

@unsympathetic said:

I cannot remember a single season like this offseason ever. At no point since Belichick was coach did we actually address all of the issues on any side of the ball.

WR? QB? RB? RT? Check, check, check, and check. True, Lauvao and Pinkston would barely start for Ohio State, so I guess there's still room for improvement there.

Actually, I think Pinkston and Lauvao will turn out better than Ohio State's top OL in this last draft: Mike Adams.

DL? Half a check. DT? Check-plus. We might not be "better" but we're much deeper. LB? Check.

The only place on the entire team we didn't definitively improve is the defensive secondary, and that's really not surprising since we spent last year's first round on that area.

We're a better team, but we still need to produce before anyone actually cares. I'm of the cautious opinion that the Browns will be a significantly better team on both O and D but that won't reflect in the W-L record until midseason.

The Browns lost like 5-6 games by less than a TD last year. I am hoping that the infusion of offensive talent will make up that gap. But, of course, as you say, it remains to be seen.

@gafreleets said:

i can assure you that no one on the bungles, ratbirds, or Steelers staff is losing even a wink of sleep on the browns or their "improvements".

Perhaps, but, they may end up getting some extra sleep when the Browns go lights out on them James Harrison style.

On defense they will be aiming to unsettle our new WRs, I'd be shouting in Greg Little's ear all game about how many drops he's going to make this game, I'd be pressing Gordon / benjamin (if they start) on every route, piling on the pressure around the right side of the line testing Schwartz out

However, they will have to give respect to Richardson so some of that coverage pressure on the Wideouts will suffer

On offense I'd be developing schemes that stack plays behind DL to open up our LB softness and safety play.

however, heart is what they will underestimate - and long may that continue because i think we come out foaming at the mouth from September 9th.

Our divisional rivals will need to adjust once we smack Phillie in the gut on September 9th - but if was preparing t=for the opener I'd do the above.