Get in a scuffle while holding a cell phone and see if you don't hear the noise from it. I think this ruling is just for the judge, and doesn't mean that even if he rules that it must go to trial, a jury wouldn't find him innocent due to self defense.

*********************************

Where he was on his way back to his truck, is immaterial. He was on his way back, and martin forced the confrontation. That's felony assault.

I hardly think that any honest jury would find Zimmerman guilty of anything. It would make a mockery of self defense laws.

The idea that Zimmerman was commiting a crime following martin is incorrect with a five star validity rating. Sure, you can hear a scuffle. But determining what the scuffle

means is impossible. The girlfried is a prejudiced witness with nothing but her imagination to draw any kind of conclusion outside of, she heard scuffling.

The primary premise, to me, is that Zimmerman called 911, and martin never did. Failure to act on martin's part denotes a fraudulent claim of "martin was terrified" etc.

It is also bogus that the anti Zimmerman and anti gun zealots claimed that Zimmerman had no injuries. bogus, bogus, bogus. Zimmerman is innocent of any wrongdoing,

by what we know, and rational thought about what didn't happen that night. Zimmerman certainly didn't call 911 because he wanted to report that he was

going to instigate a fight with someone that disappeared when he quit following him.

The%20Cysko%20Kid said:

I think you would definitely hear the sound of a scuffle going on. I'm not sure if you could reasonably expect to make anything of it though.

Bingo, without some way to positively ID exactly what those sounds really are beyond the threshold of doubt they aren't much use either way.

@sadbrownsfan said:

Actually he was not very close to his truck, according to Zimmerman he was half way back to his truck down a sidewalk in between the rows of houses when Martin attacked. The sidewalk he was on runs like a T between houses facing the road(s).

Get in a scuffle while holding a cell phone and see if you don't hear the noise from it. I think this ruling is just for the judge, and doesn't mean that even if he rules that it must go to trial, a jury wouldn't find him innocent due to self defense.

I think you would definitely hear the sound of a scuffle going on. I'm not sure if you could reasonably expect to make anything of it though.

@calfoxwc said:

********************************************************************

Maybe, if they are wearing bells on their toes, and squeegie horns on their chest. But how could you hear ZIMMERMAN doing the pushing? That is what is stupid

of his girlfriend to say. I watched your link. He was HEADED TOWARD HIS TRUCK. HE REACHED THE PAVEMENT. That can't be too far away from his truck, can it?

Pavement? Martin was crooked - he never called 991 for help. He committed deadly assualt with intent to kill or permenently injure. Felony.

Zimmerman should walk. Unless the jury is afraid for their families.

Actually he was not very close to his truck, according to Zimmerman he was half way back to his truck down a sidewalk in between the rows of houses when Martin attacked. The sidewalk he was on runs like a T between houses facing the road(s).

Get in a scuffle while holding a cell phone and see if you don't hear the noise from it. I think this ruling is just for the judge, and doesn't mean that even if he rules that it must go to trial, a jury wouldn't find him innocent due to self defense.

And,

"You can hear a push or at least the sound effects made from someone being pushed. Also for your he was returning to the truck statement My linkyou can watch Zimmerman recount the events from that night and from the location of the incident he is not close to his car. " Sad

********************************************************************

Maybe, if they are wearing bells on their toes, and squeegie horns on their chest. But how could you hear ZIMMERMAN doing the pushing? That is what is stupid

of his girlfriend to say. I watched your link. He was HEADED TOWARD HIS TRUCK. HE REACHED THE PAVEMENT. That can't be too far away from his truck, can it?

Pavement? Martin was crooked - he never called 991 for help. He committed deadly assualt with intent to kill or permenently injure. Felony.

Zimmerman should walk. Unless the jury is afraid for their families.

@westside-steve said:

Martin certainly has that right.

If Zimmerman had attacked him he should be able to defend himself.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what happened though.

WSS

Again it doesn't matter in FL whether you are attacked or not, its if you feel threatened, can you at least see that someone following you in an area you are unfamiliar with and then getting out of the their car to follow you could make someone feel threaten?

@sadbrownsfan said:

If your referring to Zimmerman's right to protect oneself, doesn't Martin also have that right? That is what is being argued and judged and would determine whether or not Zimmerman goes to trial for the death of Martin or not.

My best guess is that the ruling goes against Zimmerman on this issue but pleads guilty to lesser crime than murder 2(something along the lines of accidental death) and would face time served plus probation and a lawsuit from Martin's family.

I dont know, I think Zimmerman gets voluntary manslaughter. I think Martin had his rights to protect himself, but the narrative shown him to be the aggressor? So whatever the outcome, some-one group aint gonna be

happy - and starting with the black community. The ones that Jackson and Sharpton IRRESPONSIBLY whipped into an angry mob...

And then the gun control agenda that DOJ and Holder Co. will no doubt pursue..

@sadbrownsfan said:

If your referring to Zimmerman's right to protect oneself, doesn't Martin also have that right? That is what is being argued and judged and would determine whether or not Zimmerman goes to trial for the death of Martin or not.

My best guess is that the ruling goes against Zimmerman on this issue but pleads guilty to lesser crime than murder 2(something along the lines of accidental death) and would face time served plus probation and a lawsuit from Martin's family.

Martin certainly has that right.

If Zimmerman had attacked him he should be able to defend himself.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what happened though.

WSS

@fairhooker11 said:

which is part of anyones liberties..... or are they being STRIPPED away too? answer....Yes

If your referring to Zimmerman's right to protect oneself, doesn't Martin also have that right? That is what is being argued and judged and would determine whether or not Zimmerman goes to trial for the death of Martin or not.

My best guess is that the ruling goes against Zimmerman on this issue but pleads guilty to lesser crime than murder 2(something along the lines of accidental death) and would face time served plus probation and a lawsuit from Martin's family.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Neighborhood watch do not have police powers (powers of arrest). There only job is to observe and report.

And all the evidence shows it that's exactly what was being done.

WSS

@calfoxwc said:

Well, of course Zimmerman has made statements. But I take his statemente over Martin's girlfriend who

is a biased witness, to put it extremely mildly, who says "she thought she heard Zimmerman pushing Martin.."

WHAT? That's ridiculous. Even "hearing" a push, how do you "hear" the object of the push? Come on.

The primary key, is "innocent until proven guilty".

That gives Zimmerman, and anybody else, innocence until the evidence comes in to the contrary.

You can hear a push or at least the sound effects made from someone being pushed. Also for your he was returning to the truck statement My link you can watch Zimmerman recount the events from that night and from the location of the incident he is not close to his car.

@westside-steve said:

But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.

How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?

And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?

Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.

Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.

Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.

WSS

Neighborhood watch do not have police powers (powers of arrest). There only job is to observe and report.

is a biased witness, to put it extremely mildly, who says "she thought she heard Zimmerman pushing Martin.."

WHAT? That's ridiculous. Even "hearing" a push, how do you "hear" the object of the push? Come on.

The primary key, is "innocent until proven guilty".

That gives Zimmerman, and anybody else, innocence until the evidence comes in to the contrary.

@calfoxwc said:

Someone seems to be following you in a car then gets out with a gun and follows you on foot when you try to escape the situation...that could be ruled that Martin was using self defense.

*********************

It was concealed carry. If Zimmerman had it in his hand, he still isn't breaking the law. The idea that Martin came out of hiding, and attacked someone with a gun in his hand, getting back into his truck, out of self defense makes no sense. If Martin saw the gun, he'd stay hidden. Martin had a cell phone. He never called 911. Because he was up to no good the entire time, I think, that's why.

"Getting back into his truck" is there proof that he was? Outside of Zimmerman statements? According the articles I could find there is roughly a 1 minute span that police are unsure of what transpired.

According to Zimmerman in this 1 min he lost track of Martin and returned to his car. According to Martin's girlfriend she heard shouting and what sounded like Martin being shoved.

Imo from what I have read articles wise, Zimmerman followed after Martin tried to confront him(no evidence that Zimmerman identified himself as a neighbor hood watchmen), Martin fought him(no evidence of who attacked who) and Zimmerman was losing the fight and shot Martin. Did Zimmerman feel his life was in danger? Did Martin feel his life was in danger followed and came after him? This is what a judge will have to decide in regards to the case.

*********************

It was concealed carry. If Zimmerman had it in his hand, he still isn't breaking the law. The idea that Martin came out of hiding, and attacked someone with a gun in his hand, getting back into his truck, out of self defense makes no sense. If Martin saw the gun, he'd stay hidden. Martin had a cell phone. He never called 911. Because he was up to no good the entire time, I think, that's why.

@westside-steve said:

But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.

How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?

And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?

WSS

Citizens watch groups are fine, they certainly can serve a purpose and help the police out. A "watch group" is just that...more sets of eyes to make sure things are safe. That is all the training that is required.

Just don't arm them. One incident is more than enough to prove that.

How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?

And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?

Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.

Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.

Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

So in effect you oppose concealed carry.

I would say the lesson to be learned is not to attack someone.

WSS

I don't oppose concealed carry.

I oppose pseudo-police who are improperly trained, mainly because they could over react to stressful situations. Policing shouldn't be a hobby for somebody, it can be very dangerous.

@westside-steve said:

I'm just going by what was actually said, not what someone would want it to mean.

Still following someone in public is hardly illegal nor should it call for an attack.

There is no allegation that zimmerman actually attacked martin that I am aware of.

If he had then perhaps martin would have been able to use the stand your ground issue.

Of course things didn't turn out that way...

WSS

and now we get into why I don't like FL's Stand your ground law it doesn't require the person to be attacked

"He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or"

Someone seems to be following you in a car then gets out with a gun and follows you on foot when you try to escape the situation...that could be ruled that Martin was using self defense.

whether or not Zimmerman will get the ruling in his favor depends if the judge rules that

"776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or"

Which puts this ruling into a very grey situation, had Martin simply pulled a gun and killed Zimmerman and claimed the self defense he could of taken the Stand your Ground defense as Zimmerman did, but since he was unarmed and using his hands to defend himself. He was killed in the process and Zimmerman can use this clause.

A 911 operator is just that - a responder. That responder has no business telling somebody they shouldn't do whatever.

Reponder. They send emergency help. I don't know why he called them before Martin ATTACKED HIM, while he was

going back to his truck. That is illegal on Martin's actions, and trying to knock Zimmerman senseless or dead on the pavement..

wrestling for the gun Martin sees in the struggle, all allegedly, based on on Zimmerman's statements, I don't see how

the jury can do anything but declare him innocent. The rationalization that Zimmerman should have not been there, or shouldn't

have continued to follow him... he quit following him, and went back into his truck. And the hoodlum, seeing Zimmerman walk

back to his truck, and having already either circled around, or come out of hiding, to attack him for finding him out or whatever, broke the law when

deciding to commit the felonious assult on Zimmerman. Like a bear or mountain lion, they will decide to chase down and kill,

if you turn and run out of weakness.

Anyways, the NBP, Obamao's mafia, have made it impossible for Zimmerman to get a fair trial. And if he does, and if that ends up

with him INNOCENT, the left will not accept it, and will use it to their politically violent advantage. CCW. You don't know anymore.

@bob806 said:

Exactly...I feel sorry for Zimmerman & the Martin family.

The big lesson is we don't need pseudo-police patrolling around. They are improperly trained, and certainly should not be carrying guns.

So in effect you oppose concealed carry.

I would say the lesson to be learned is not to attack someone.

WSS