I was being creative. It's tough waiting for the Browns to play again.

@calfoxwc said:

and so goes the life of a right wing republican right wing zealot.

i guess forgiveness is a sin in your eyes.

i say relax, put your feet up, have a root beer and let's see what the future brings. miktoxictotheboard

**********************************************

"yawn"

your response was purely emotional, and illogical.

I just have fun on the other forum. Grow some nads and slither over there if you want to be a part of it.

One... okay, maybe a couple, of people in the entire world that I've ever heard of, or met, or know...

that I have no respect for whatsoever, or just flat out won't forgive them for being globs of hippo poop like you,

and that means I don't forgive anybody.

I am usually always relazed, especially on Sundays when I put my feet up, and drink my root beer, with friends and family,

and wait to see the Browns start kicking ass on offense. The defense is doing a good bit of that already.

May fArt Schmodell rest in peace... in hell.

hey we might disagree on the politics of this country and that's cool. i'm sure modell's actions hit other people harder than it did me, so i can't disagree with your feelings, but i can make fun of them (nothing personal).

i literally laughed out loud with your last sentence in your post there. i know you are being serious but that is some funny shit!! :lol:

who do write for letterman or leno??

i guess forgiveness is a sin in your eyes.

i say relax, put your feet up, have a root beer and let's see what the future brings. miktoxictotheboard

**********************************************

"yawn"

your response was purely emotional, and illogical.

I just have fun on the other forum. Grow some nads and slither over there if you want to be a part of it.

One... okay, maybe a couple, of people in the entire world that I've ever heard of, or met, or know...

that I have no respect for whatsoever, or just flat out won't forgive them for being globs of hippo poop like you,

and that means I don't forgive anybody.

I am usually always relazed, especially on Sundays when I put my feet up, and drink my root beer, with friends and family,

and wait to see the Browns start kicking ass on offense. The defense is doing a good bit of that already.

May fArt Schmodell rest in peace... in hell.

@miktoxic said:

and so goes the life of a right wing republican right wing zealot.

i guess forgiveness is a sin in your eyes.

i say relax, put your feet up, have a root beer and let's see what the future brings.

lol'd

Formerly Sane said:

I understand that this is how many Browns fans "Choose" to see it. But that goes directly against anybody associated with Modell tells it, and it goes directly against what independent sources say.

I understand that to accept the version told by the people in the know forces Browns fans to accept that once Modell got out of Cleveland he was successful, maybe not financially but with the football program. And Cleveland, and the new Browns remain totally inept.

You're either a complete idiot or that's a really fail attempt to troll.

Please show me what the independent version is.

I hate the steelers. I am wearing that t-shirt every Sunday this year from now on. We will go 15-1.

Zombo

@calfoxwc said:

OH, baloney.

He was kicked out of life, and dwells in the firey pits of hell.

and so goes the life of a right wing republican right wing zealot.

i guess forgiveness is a sin in your eyes.

i say relax, put your feet up, have a root beer and let's see what the future brings.

He was kicked out of life, and dwells in the firey pits of hell.

It just....doesn't.....matter.

It's football season.

PD article saying Cleveland officials offered to build Art a new stadium years before he moved the Browns,but Modell wasn't interested.

Kind of makes you think twice about the Baltimore article claiming Modell and Lerner conspired to swap teams / cities as early as 1985.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-10-04/news/1998277064_1_modell-moved-to-baltimore-lerner

@miktoxic said:

i would compare 'being KICKED OUT of the league' as to what happened to SMU getting the death penalty. they were essentially kicked out of NCAA (league). it was a national event. everyone knew of it.

do you really think if modell was KICKED OUT of the NFL that it wouldn't have made national news? let's say jerry jones was KICKED OUT of the league, you don't think every football fan in america would know about it?

I don't know about national news....but it surely made news here. Again, are you 12 years old such that you never heard about it.

so you say he was forced to sell his team because he didn't have the financial resources, do you really compare that to being kicked out of the league?

No, I am saying that it was NOT a voluntary decision on his part. He was "directed" by the Commish to sell.

Oh, perhaps at some point in time after Tags told him to sell he came to the realization that he didn't have the financial resources..but until that time he did every thing in his power to keep the team. He even put it in his wife's name I think.

I think it may be similar. Bud Selig directed McCourt to sell if I am not mistaken. (and I think even a DR court required it.

if anything all you have to compare to what happened to modell is what happened to the owner of the dodgers a year ago. he was forced to sell the team because of financial dealings and misdealings. yet he was not kicked out of the league. in fact i heard somewhere that he was a part of a financial group trying to buy some other franchise. can't find the source but will continue to look. so do you think if modell were to have hit a financial windfall and had lived for another 20 years the league would have stopped him from owning anothe NFL franchise? so how was he kicked out of the league?

i barely call that splitting hairs unless you're doing it with an axe.

do you really think if modell was KICKED OUT of the NFL that it wouldn't have made national news? let's say jerry jones was KICKED OUT of the league, you don't think every football fan in america would know about it?

so you say he was forced to sell his team because he didn't have the financial resources, do you really compare that to being kicked out of the league? if anything all you have to compare to what happened to modell is what happened to the owner of the dodgers a year ago. he was forced to sell the team because of financial dealings and misdealings. yet he was not kicked out of the league. in fact i heard somewhere that he was a part of a financial group trying to buy some other franchise. can't find the source but will continue to look. so do you think if modell were to have hit a financial windfall and had lived for another 20 years the league would have stopped him from owning anothe NFL franchise? so how was he kicked out of the league?

i barely call that splitting hairs unless you're doing it with an axe.

@diehardbrownsfan said:

This hardly means he was "kicked out of the NFL." He was directed to sell because they were concerned about his financial status. Not the same thing, and I think you know that.

Paul Tagliabue orderd Modell to sell the Ravens.

That is like your boss ordering you to pack up your desk and never come back.

Yet, you would claim that that would not constitute you being "fired".

Please don't strectch credulity.

And there is your source: Paul Tagliabue.

@hoorta said:

1) That's a gray area. We like to believe Modell was "talked into it" by the threat he was going to be forced to play another 3 years in Cleveland to fulfill his lease agreement. Yes, Fred Nance (Cleveland's lead lawyer) had that going for him- and believe me, had Art balked at the conditions allowing his departure, it could, and would have been enforced.

2) Plueezzze- "Kicked out" or "forced to sell" that's splitting hairs over semantics. The bottom line is Artie was divested of his property involuntarily. No, they didn't get the cops to padlock the place- but the difference between that and a home foreclosure? None in my book. Whether it was the other owners or the Commish makes not a whit of difference.

He was not allowed to continue to own the team because he couldn't afford it. He was not "kicked out" of the NFL, i.e., not eligible to be in the HOF, etc.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Afaik it went down like this.

Art Modell - Fuck this shit I'm outta here, fuck off Cleveland.

NFL Owners - Do your thing Art, Fuck Cleveland.

City of Cleveland - HEY! Hold the fuck on here, you have a lease with us! You can't leave us you're breaking the lease.

Art Modell - Fuck you Cleveland. I'm leaving anyhow.

NFL owners - "shrug"

City of Cleveland - We're suing.

Magistrate - Okay, Mr. Modell, you may transfer your football team from the City of Cleveland and break your lease with the city but the terms of the agreement specify you must forfeit any rights to the history,namesake,uniforms and logo.

City of Cleveland, you will receive a new football team in three years.

NFL owners - Yeah we're cool with that.

^ +1 exactly.

Formerly Sane said:

1) I'm curious about the first part? I specifically remember Modell being talked in to leaving the name and colors well after the move was announced. Ernie Acorsi said so the other day.

"It's tough, for someone who literally hangs on every word he utters, to admit anything. It's easier for him to remember it that way."

1) That's a gray area. We like to believe Modell was "talked into it" by the threat he was going to be forced to play another 3 years in Cleveland to fulfill his lease agreement. Yes, Fred Nance (Cleveland's lead lawyer) had that going for him- and believe me, had Art balked at the conditions allowing his departure, it could, and would have been enforced.

2) Plueezzze- "Kicked out" or "forced to sell" that's splitting hairs over semantics. The bottom line is Artie was divested of his property involuntarily. No, they didn't get the cops to padlock the place- but the difference between that and a home foreclosure? None in my book. Whether it was the other owners or the Commish makes not a whit of difference.

Art Modell - Fuck this shit I'm outta here, fuck off Cleveland.

NFL Owners - Do your thing Art, Fuck Cleveland.

City of Cleveland - HEY! Hold the fuck on here, you have a lease with us! You can't leave us you're breaking the lease.

Art Modell - Fuck you Cleveland. I'm leaving anyhow.

NFL owners - "shrug"

City of Cleveland - We're suing.

Magistrate - Okay, Mr. Modell, you may transfer your football team from the City of Cleveland and break your lease with the city but the terms of the agreement specify you must forfeit any rights to the history,namesake,uniforms and logo.

City of Cleveland, you will receive a new football team in three years.

NFL owners - Yeah we're cool with that.

@the-gipper said:

This was in Wikipedia:

"Despite a no-cost stadium lease, all revenues from parking, concessions, and TV, as well as a reported $25M Maryland subsidy, Modell's ownership of the Ravens resulted in continual financial hardships, and the NFL stepped in and directed Modell to sell his franchise."

This hardly means he was "kicked out of the NFL." He was directed to sell because they were concerned about his financial status. Not the same thing, and I think you know that.

@hoorta said:

Modell was allowed to move only after Cleveland was guaranteed a new team, and the Franchise, name, and colors put in a trust until the new stadium was built and ownership announced. Credit Rolling Stone Al Davis setting up the tone in the good old boy owner's network to allow an owner to move if there was financial benefit to be had. "Hey, I might want to do this too." However, this was likely the last time something like this is going to happen, as cities wised up and put poison pills in their stadium leases so big, no owner will be wealthy enough to swallow them and relocate a franchise, besides "specific performance" clauses.

Modell was about to be foreclosed on by Fleet Bank- and the other owners didn't want the embarrassment of a bank taking control of a NFL franchise. Fact.

Also it's damn obvious with 20\20 hindsight Art was going under whether he stayed in Cleveland or moved. He was far too over leveraged. Got to the point his cash stream (even with the Maryland and Baltimore bribes) wasn't enough to pay the interest on his loans. The move just bought him a couple extra years.

yeah but that didn't answer the question whether or not he was kicked out of the NFL.

Formerly Sane said:

THIS.....is your proof that the other owners kicked him out of the league? This is weak even for you!

This is like saying that it's common knowledge that the NFL concluded that Cleveland isn't worthy of an NFL team (because they approved the move to Baltimore)

Modell was allowed to move only after Cleveland was guaranteed a new team, and the Franchise, name, and colors put in a trust until the new stadium was built and ownership announced. Credit Rolling Stone Al Davis setting up the tone in the good old boy owner's network to allow an owner to move if there was financial benefit to be had. "Hey, I might want to do this too." However, this was likely the last time something like this is going to happen, as cities wised up and put poison pills in their stadium leases so big, no owner will be wealthy enough to swallow them and relocate a franchise, besides "specific performance" clauses.

Modell was about to be foreclosed on by Fleet Bank- and the other owners didn't want the embarrassment of a bank taking control of a NFL franchise. Fact.

Also it's damn obvious with 20\20 hindsight Art was going under whether he stayed in Cleveland or moved. He was far too over leveraged. Got to the point his cash stream (even with the Maryland and Baltimore bribes) wasn't enough to pay the interest on his loans. The move just bought him a couple extra years.

"Despite a no-cost stadium lease, all revenues from parking, concessions, and TV, as well as a reported $25M Maryland subsidy, Modell's ownership of the Ravens resulted in continual financial hardships, and the NFL stepped in and directed Modell to sell his franchise."

@diehardbrownsfan said:

I don't know where he heard he was kicked out of NFL. Never happened.

Again, were not any of you alive when this all came down? Its not like it wasn't all over the radio and TV and elsewhere. I didn't make it up.

@roach said:

That is sort of correct.

If you'd like to learn about this topic, then a must read is: Fumble! The Browns, Modell and the Move An Insider's Story. The book was written by Michael Poplar who was the Vice President/Treasurer of the Cleveland Stadium Corporation from 1975 to 1996. It is a 330 page fact based book that walks through much of the history of Modell's contributions to the city and his screw-ups. Regarding the stadium renovation, the politics at that time simply wasn't going to let that happen until Modell was bled dry.

Here is a small excerpt:

One proposal to raise money for the renovation was to extend the sin tax. The term of the original sin tax, passed to raise $117 million for Gateway, was for 15 years, 1990 to 2005. The new suggestion was to extend the tax beyond 2006 to raise whatever amount was needed. A serious question was raised, however: If the money wouldn't be received until 2006, how would the contractors be paid during their work period from 1997-1999. The answer? A loan from the State of Ohio.

A senior vice-president from McDonald & Co. said that financing this way would lead to a problem. The county could end up paying so much interest that less than $30 million would be available to pay construction costs out of a $100 million bond issue. "Because of the delayed revenue stream, resulting in a diminished revenue stream, the sin tax extension is not an efficient way to raise the amount of dollars that is involved here," he advised the mayor's task force. The city, however, did not heed this advice but announced it would place the extension on the November 7, 1995 ballot.

The sin tax extension was a mirage, an illusion. It was nothing more than political posturing. By the way, at the time the county was also trying to solve the problem of Gateway going $28 million over budget. Also by the way, renovation estimates at the time grew from $154 million to $172 million.

Get the book.

Awesome, Thanks

@the-cysko-kid said:

Gipper I can't find any source that claims he was drubbed out of the NFL by the other owners. For what its worth. Why would the NFL mandate all thirty two teams do a tribute to a guy they ran out of the league?

I don't know where he heard he was kicked out of NFL. Never happened.