The Soldier said:

In 1995 Modell signed an agreement to move his team (the Cleveland Browns) to Balitmore.

In 1996 it was decided that the Browns would be deactivated.

You can believe what you want. If you wantt to tie a player from todays Browns roster, you have to go through Baltimore.

Modell's team moved to Baltimore, sure. But they moved as Modell's team and became the Ravens. The Browns never did move. The current browns might be like the Texas chainsaw massacre remake...not good...but they are the browns.

I know what Model announced. I know what happened.

.

Can anyone interpret this for me?

The Soldier said:

In 1995 Modell signed an agreement to move his team (the Cleveland Browns) to Balitmore.

In 1996 it was decided that the Browns would be deactivated.

You can believe what you want. If you wantt to tie a player from todays Browns roster, you have to go through Baltimore.

He may have unilaterally signed some papers with the City of Baltimore, so what. That was not an effective move.

I can sign a deed turning the ownership of your house over to me....that doesn't make it my house.

Any agreement Modell may have signed was nullified both by the courts and by the NFL. The court put an injunction on any movement....and the NFL disavowed that any authority to enter into any agreement of that nature was granted.

And its not what I believe. Its what the facts are. NO "paper" that had legal enforceability to allow Modell to move to Baltimore was ever propounded until the NFL, the City of Cleveland, the States of Ohio and Maryland, the City of Baltimore, and Modell signed the Consent Decree that outlined all the elements of what would happen in that situation, including but not limited to: the retention of the Cleveland Browns franchise and all of its sundry accoutrements in Cleveland, Ohio; the creation of an expansion franchise (to be named later) in Baltimore, Maryland; the award of the ownership of that franchise to Art Modell; the compensation that Art Modell had to pay Cleveland to for waiver of the city's right to require specific enforcement of the terms of the Browns lease with the city/ the approval process by the NFL to accept the new franchise; the terms of the asset transfer of certain contracts owned by the Cleveland Browns...etc. etc.

Do you really want to argue the legalities of this with me?

Do you really like mud wrestling with a Duroc or a Landrace?

In 1996 it was decided that the Browns would be deactivated.

You can believe what you want. If you wantt to tie a player from todays Browns roster, you have to go through Baltimore.

The Soldier said:

I know you want to believe that the Browns didn't move. But in reality, they did.

In November of 1995, Model announced that he was moving the team he owned (The Cleveland Browns) to Baltimore.

He did move the Browns to Baltimore.

In 1996, the league revised, on paper, what actually happened.

The FACT remains, that the Browns moved to Baltimore. Baltimore's 1996 draft position was based on the Browns 1995 record. The Ravens 1996 schedule was based on the fact that they were, the previous year, the Browns.

The Browns moved. The league, after they moved, revised the paperwork.

These are facts.

No, you are either misinformed or obtuse or obsequious or myopic. See my previous post. Modell announced that he wanted to move....but no actual legal or physical move to Baltimore was ever made until the lawsuit was settled.

Thee was never any revision of paperwork as the NFL NEVER approved any move until after the settlement.

Let me spell it out for you in terms you might understand:

A guy can announce: "I intend to fuck you." And you say "No, you are not. That is not what I want and if you do it without my consent it is rape".

As things go, at that point there has been no penetration, thus no rape. However, after a lawsuit and lengthy discussion it is decided that you can engage in consensual sex.

Thus, no actual fornication has taken place until it was agreed.

And that is what happened here, sorta.

There was an asset transfer, by agreement. Among those assets was the Browns draft position. Since it was agreed that the Browns would not operate in 1996, that draft position and their scheduling position were useless and allowed them to go to Baltimore to be used by the new franchise....in the same way that Modell agreed that a new franchise would be formed in Baltimore...and thus the assets of the Browns, like the colors etc. would no longer be of use to him there.

The point is, just like the current sale of the Browns to Haslam, an announcement is not sufficient to complete an actual sale.

An agreement has to be reached and an approval by the league is required.

In Modell's case, no agreement was reached and no approval was ever obtained until the settlement was made. So no paperwork of any sort was ever revised.

I don't think it actually takes legal training to comprend this....but THOSE are the facts, Jack.

@sadbrownsfan said:

It depends on your definition of Franchise's moving. When the A$$ took the team to Baltimore he didn't have to create a new franchise from the bottom up he was able to take the team, the front office, and if he wanted to the coaching staff(though he chose to part ways with most). He also didn't have to follow the same rules as a new expansion franchise, applying for franchise rights, having the city approved for a franchise, and even going through the expansion drafts. The NFL was able to come to a compromise and left the name and history in Cleveland. They also stated that the franchise was "dormant" till it would return no later than in 99, in essence pre-approving the city for an expansion team or if another team wanted to move.

Actually, it is not your definition of a franchise moving, it is the definition of a franchise, period. FYI, the NFL and other sports are not the only businesses in which franchises operate.

Most companies offer to sell a franchise to a franchisee who then typically has exclusive rights to operate in a particular territory. Depending on the nature of the business that territory can be small, like a mile or so radius perhaps for a fast food restaurant....or whole states or even multiple states.

This does manifest itself in the NFL. E.g. The Raiders still consider LA as part of its franchises territories. At least Al Davis did when he was around. Not sure about now. The Raiders have claimed that they must be compensated if the NFL wants to put a team in LA.

The Virginia Beach/Norfolk area has been considered as a possible site of an expansion team, but the Redskins consider that part of their territory even though it is more than 200 miles away.

The point is the franchisor creates the franchise and appoints the territory. The Cleveland Browns franchise is and always has been here in Cleveland. When the settlement came down in the Modell move case, it was merely agreed by all parties that a new franchise would be created in Baltimore, that that new franchise be awarded to Art Modell as owner, that certain assets be transferred to this new franchise (including player contracts, the draft position of the Browns franchise..and truly, little else.) Nearly all the teams equipment remained at the Berea facility along with all those other assets you are aware of. History, colors, facilities etc. The Cleveland Browns franchise never stopped operating. Remember Bill Futterer and the Browns Trust that controlled it? It just didn't have an on field operation for those few years. The territory of NE Ohio still always belonged to the Cleveland Browns franchise.

The Soldier said:

I know you want to believe that the Browns didn't move. But in reality, they did.

In November of 1995, Model announced that he was moving the team he owned (The Cleveland Browns) to Baltimore.

He did move the Browns to Baltimore.

In 1996, the league revised, on paper, what actually happened.

The FACT remains, that the Browns moved to Baltimore. Baltimore's 1996 draft position was based on the Browns 1995 record. The Ravens 1996 schedule was based on the fact that they were, the previous year, the Browns.

The Browns moved. The league, after they moved, revised the paperwork.

These are facts.

Who cares?

In November of 1995, Model announced that he was moving the team he owned (The Cleveland Browns) to Baltimore.

He did move the Browns to Baltimore.

In 1996, the league revised, on paper, what actually happened.

The FACT remains, that the Browns moved to Baltimore. Baltimore's 1996 draft position was based on the Browns 1995 record. The Ravens 1996 schedule was based on the fact that they were, the previous year, the Browns.

The Browns moved. The league, after they moved, revised the paperwork.

These are facts.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Here we go with this shit again... lol

So the "Cleveland Team" move it's owner,front office,coaches and players to Baltimore with intentions of taking the team name and history along with it which later would be denied.

Except that the coaches didn't go. BB and his staff were fired. And NFL players are as fungible as corn futures, so that don't count. Not even 50% of the Browns 1995 roster made it to the Ravens 1996 roster. And the FO wasn't the same because they too were all let go and Ravens brought in Ozzie Newsome after they were there.

The ONLY thing that was essentially the same was Modell.

This new "expansion franchise" is not awarded first round picks as normal expansion franchises are.

The Cleveland Browns return from the abyss years later and are awarded the first round pick in the upcoming draft and allowed first dibs on other teams player in the 1999 Expanion Draft

Have you ever seen the movie Pet Sematary?

The new Browns have been like the guys kid who dies in the movie and he buries him in the indian burial ground and the kid comes back.

Sometimes dead is better.

So the "Cleveland Team" move it's owner,front office,coaches and players to Baltimore with intentions of taking the team name and history along with it which later would be denied.

This new "expansion franchise" is not awarded first round picks as normal expansion franchises are.

The Cleveland Browns return from the abyss years later and are awarded the first round pick in the upcoming draft and allowed first dibs on other teams player in the 1999 Expanion Draft

Have you ever seen the movie Pet Sematary?

The new Browns have been like the guys kid who dies in the movie and he buries him in the indian burial ground and the kid comes back.

Sometimes dead is better