@the-gipper said:

In my opinion that speed issue on the defense comes down to 3 positions: our OLBs and our second CB.

The DL has sufficient speed for a DL. Maybe another kickass DE could work, but that is not the primary concern.

Maiava and Fujita are issues....and I don't think DQ is all that, but he is not as big a problem as the OLBs.

Haden's return will partially improve the speed...but they do need another fast DB.

On the offense, our "speed" receivers are rookies. (and trust me, with Benjamin and Gordon the Browns are much faster than last year's WR group)

But with TR, I can't agree with you in terms of RB.

Definitely my mistake regarding TR--didn't mean to imply that he's slow.

But, my God, our linebackers.

@dste-ace said:

Last night was the first Browns game I've seen this season because, outside of Northern Ohio, no one broadcasts Browns games.

What I saw last night--and this is the entire defense, not just the secondary--was an APPALLING overall lack of speed.

Flacco would dump the ball off and Rice would make a little move and then just run past/around the defenders.

After further reflection, the offense is slow as fook too.

In my opinion that speed issue on the defense comes down to 3 positions: our OLBs and our second CB.

The DL has sufficient speed for a DL. Maybe another kickass DE could work, but that is not the primary concern.

Maiava and Fujita are issues....and I don't think DQ is all that, but he is not as big a problem as the OLBs.

Haden's return will partially improve the speed...but they do need another fast DB.

On the offense, our "speed" receivers are rookies. (and trust me, with Benjamin and Gordon the Browns are much faster than last year's WR group)

But with TR, I can't agree with you in terms of RB.

What I saw last night--and this is the entire defense, not just the secondary--was an APPALLING overall lack of speed.

Flacco would dump the ball off and Rice would make a little move and then just run past/around the defenders.

After further reflection, the offense is slow as fook too.

With Haden in, he could have covered AJ Green in the Bengals game, and Smith in the Bills game, and Boldin in this game one on one and done a pretty damn good job. He would have had occasional help, but usually, the other team's second receiver would be the one that would get double coverage from our second best CB (Brown or Patterson or Skrine) and a safety.

If Haden controls the opponents best WR, and our other backs control their 2d WR with double coverage, then all this massive yardage these teams have gained the last two weeks would not have been as bad.

Yes, we WILL need DB help from next year's draft, for sure...because I don't think that Brown now, and Patterson are starting CBs in the NFL. Backups at best. (even with Haden in there)

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he is an elite corner by any means.

I just don't feel he was being singled out and that the defensive woes can be placed on his poor play. Our secondary as a whole was singled out. We had two rookies in the secondary at some points, as well as a guy who's lost about four steps. Without Haden, our secondary is awful. Ward is liability in pass coverage even with Haden in, without him it's even worse. Gipson made some plays tonight but then injured his knee before the half. I believe Usama Young also injured himself.

Patterson is, honestly, probably the most solid CB we have right now. It would go to Sheldon, but he's at the age where he can't hang step for step anymore. Sheldon needs to make the move to safety.

Don't forget that Baltimore's receiving corps is quite strong. Smith and Boldin are legitimate starters on every roster in the league, excluding maybe Atlanta. For our patched up secondary to hang like they did for most of the night is quite remarkable, in my opinion. Yeah there were some bad plays. But there were far fewer than what there should have been.

I can't really argue with what you said, but whether he was being targeted or not he was being handled by Boldin in the second half. You're right, he is the best CB we have right now but that's not really a compliment to him. I don't think they played miserable out there, but below average fits the bill pretty well.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he is an elite corner by any means.

I just don't feel he was being singled out and that the defensive woes can be placed on his poor play. Our secondary as a whole was singled out. We had two rookies in the secondary at some points, as well as a guy who's lost about four steps. Without Haden, our secondary is awful. Ward is liability in pass coverage even with Haden in, without him it's even worse. Gipson made some plays tonight but then injured his knee before the half. I believe Usama Young also injured himself.

Patterson is, honestly, probably the most solid CB we have right now. It would go to Sheldon, but he's at the age where he can't hang step for step anymore. Sheldon needs to make the move to safety.

Don't forget that Baltimore's receiving corps is quite strong. Smith and Boldin are legitimate starters on every roster in the league, excluding maybe Atlanta. For our patched up secondary to hang like they did for most of the night is quite remarkable, in my opinion. Yeah there were some bad plays. But there were far fewer than what there should have been.

Sorry- Patterson WAS being picked on- mercilessly. And why? the Ravens knew he couldn't keep up with their wrs. We need a first down? Just look who #21 is covering- he'll be open.

OK- Patterson is at best a #2-3 CB trying to cover some pretty good wrs. Not his fault Haden isn't there. Goes to show the Browns secondary still needs some help before we can compete with the big boys.

@jrb12711 said:

Tim you and I usually see eye to eye and I thumb's up your logical posts, but Patterson was getting picked on during the second half. The pass late in the game I live with and the one where Boldin stopped and made the acrobatic catch. But there were 4-5 plays he just didn't make in the second half. He was even in the right position, but just didn't get the job done. At the same time, I don't pretend he's an elite corner who should be putting guys on an island.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe he is an elite corner by any means.

I just don't feel he was being singled out and that the defensive woes can be placed on his poor play. Our secondary as a whole was singled out. We had two rookies in the secondary at some points, as well as a guy who's lost about four steps. Without Haden, our secondary is awful. Ward is liability in pass coverage even with Haden in, without him it's even worse. Gipson made some plays tonight but then injured his knee before the half. I believe Usama Young also injured himself.

Patterson is, honestly, probably the most solid CB we have right now. It would go to Sheldon, but he's at the age where he can't hang step for step anymore. Sheldon needs to make the move to safety.

Don't forget that Baltimore's receiving corps is quite strong. Smith and Boldin are legitimate starters on every roster in the league, excluding maybe Atlanta. For our patched up secondary to hang like they did for most of the night is quite remarkable, in my opinion. Yeah there were some bad plays. But there were far fewer than what there should have been.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I'm the guy who knows even a fucking iota about the game of football, like most of the people on here and very much unlike yourself.

You have the views of a pissed off 12 year old after getting his ass whipped in Madden.

Let me guess, your idea to make the team better is to sign TO, Ochocinco, Plaxico and Braylon then trade away Joe Thomas, Trent Richardson, Joe Haden and DQ for Reggie Bush and Mike Vick.

You are a bitch. In the truest sense.

Tim you and I usually see eye to eye and I thumb's up your logical posts, but Patterson was getting picked on during the second half. The pass late in the game I live with and the one where Boldin stopped and made the acrobatic catch. But there were 4-5 plays he just didn't make in the second half. He was even in the right position, but just didn't get the job done. At the same time, I don't pretend he's an elite corner who should be putting guys on an island.

You have the views of a pissed off 12 year old after getting his ass whipped in Madden.

Let me guess, your idea to make the team better is to sign TO, Ochocinco, Plaxico and Braylon then trade away Joe Thomas, Trent Richardson, Joe Haden and DQ for Reggie Bush and Mike Vick.

You are a bitch. In the truest sense.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

God damnit. Shut the fuck up. You clearly know nothing about the sport.

Playing Madden does not equate into viable football knowledge.

Who the fuck are you? The board supervisor. Go to hell. If you don't like what I say then leave, asshole!

Your name says it all dickhead!

Playing Madden does not equate into viable football knowledge.