@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I agree.

Unfortunately, no one wants to give it time. It's "let's build a foundation" and then by week 8 it's "damn it all, let's fire them and start over".

I would say thank god Browns fans aren't the GM, but unfortunately they make decisions more often than not(through fire ___ bandwagons that is all over the media as a result). Fan pressure obviously makes a difference.

Now that we have Haslam as owner he should get someone reputable and stick by them, not just try to get temporary fast fixes.

Formerly Sane said:

That's like saying you tried to run a marathon but in reality you failed to get out of bed that day. Contrary to belief in Cleveland, it takes time to "build a team"

I agree.

Unfortunately, no one wants to give it time. It's "let's build a foundation" and then by week 8 it's "damn it all, let's fire them and start over".

The coaching is the problem.

You also won't build a successful team if all you do is get rid of rookies who are making mistakes, you have to give them time to learn through experience.

@brownsfan4evr said:

Weeden's 1,288 passing yards this season are the 2nd most ever by an NFL rookie through 5 games (Newton 1,610)

That's only because Luck has played 4 games. Luck is only 80 yards behind Weeden with one less game played

URGENT NEEDS

QB -Weeden was a mistake. He was too old and not worth a 1st round. McCoy won more games with less talent around him.

WR -The WR core needed a proven pro FA like Bouldan with Ravens. Maybe Gordon will pay off.

DE -Sheard is not the answer. Without a constant pass rush, everything else falls apart. A QB with his act together and 3 seconds will pick you apart. This is what's been happening since the Philly game. Hoping CBs can cover for 5 secs to allow pass rush to get there is a disaster.

FS -No team fears throwing deep on us. That says it all.

LESS URGENT

CB -Hayden's a lock. S Brown retires. Others are ok for 2nd string. Many teams have 2 star WRs. Need 2 prime CBs, but can live with one until we get a few other positions first.

RG, LG & FB -Maybe. Current starters unproven but looked good this week for the 1st time. Let's wait and see.

LB -Maybe. Gocong and Fujita gone. Rookies look good so far. Need at least one to blitz well. Must be able to cover TE and RB pass.

SS -Maybe. Ward's good at run stop and blitz but questionable at coverage. This is a passing league. He'll do for now.

Coaching - Offense and defense look predictable. Can't say who makes the lame calls. Might be HC, might be coordinators. Shurmur has to take at least some of the blame. Add up the points gained for KR & PR versus the turnovers and it's a lose. Run if it's open, cover the ball if not.

@badnewsbrowns said:

Come on you really can't compare the Browns to New England.

New England has a solid foundation in place, veterans and a winning tradition.

The Browns are a god damn mess, awful teams are given high picks for a reason. We have a huge lack of talent and the best talent is high in the draft.

yeah and how do you get that foundation? the winning tradition? i lived in boston in the years of steve grogan and tony eason. they were a decent team that made it to a super bowl which they never showed up for. the afc east was nothing then. maybe miami was decent as well. but the jets were certainly no good and the bills had shot their load years before.

but tradition? that didn't start until kraft bought the team in '94. he brought in the right people and they have won afc titles and super bowls under his wing. BUT they are so smart in drafting they actually used their 1st 2 round picks on their defense which they needed help badly and got a DE and one of the best LBs in the draft (hightower) 3 picks after we picked weeden. they also traded down twice and up twice. we coulda traded down out of the 5 spot and garnished another 2nd rounder and something for next year and still grabbed one of the LBs or corners and picked a RB at 22. (btw in 2011 the pats drafted ryan mallet in the 3rd round and would say he's better than any qb on our roster).

@badnewsbrowns said:

Think before you speak.

touche'.

@dab7291993 said:

He's 0-5 with 9 INT's and 5 TD's.

I don't care about yards.

Then you're stupid, because clearly he can improve on his mistakes, maintain the same yardage, and cut down on the INTs, which would make him a top QB. Colt passed for 300 yards almost never, maybe once or twice, all the great teams have high yardage passing QBs besides maybe the 49ers, but Alex Smith is still solid. Not only that but one of those INTs was a tipped ball from Greg Little.

Weeden isn't the problem, you're a damn fool if you think so. QBs dont grow on trees and Weeden is better than any QB out there in college right now, stick with him, and build the offense around Weeden and TR, we'll be fine.

Partly because of Richardson but mostly because we now have a legitimate QB, of course he is going to throw INTs, newflash he's a rookie.

@brownsfan4evr said:

Weeden's 1,288 passing yards this season are the 2nd most ever by an NFL rookie through 5 games (Newton 1,610)

He's 0-5 with 9 INT's and 5 TD's.

I don't care about yards.

Shurmur is the greatest at explaining something and trying to sound intelligent but sounding dumb as fuck.

Well when it's third and one you have two options you can either run or pass. durrrr

@slimdawg said:

I thought the same damn thing!! I bet TR would have gained a yard pretty easily the way he was running the ball. And if i remember it correctly, Weeden was picked off on that play, right??

How about the good old fashioned qb sneak on 3rd and 1? With shurmur at the helm nobody would have seen that coming.

@miktoxic said:

NE does it every year. seems like it worked our for them ok.

As does Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. Honestly, I was OK with the Richardson pick! The Weeden pick was a reach, as they needed to really address the WR position. I thought Weeden more than likely would have been there in a later round. I'm not ready to throw him under the bus yet, as there is some upside. However; I feel the blame for the continued ineptitude starts at the top! From the front office on down to the coaching staff and scouting department. Yeah, it's the players that are the ones responsible for executing the plays. However; the front office, and coaching staff along with the scouting departments are the ones who bring these players in! If they aren't talented enough, that is on the folks selecting them! Other teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and New England always seem to find that hidden gem, as well as solid back ups! Injuries happen, yes, but why is it we're the only ones who year after year struggle with them! Kind of says something about the ones who are evaluating the talent! Not to mention you have a head coach who is CLEARLY in over his head!

New England has a solid foundation in place, veterans and a winning tradition.

The Browns are a god damn mess, awful teams are given high picks for a reason. We have a huge lack of talent and the best talent is high in the draft.

Think before you speak.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

We tried that.

How has that worked out?

NE does it every year. seems like it worked our for them ok.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

There is absolutely no reason this game needs to be paced on Weeden's arm.

Richardson was very effective on the ground. I don't know if Shurmur thought he was going to fool the defense, but more often than not he shot himself in the foot.

The offensive line played well. They opened holes and set the edge on arguably the best defensive line in the league, and still we relied on the pass. Richardson was gashing the Giants on every carry, and Shurmur still refuses to use him full time.

This loss falls squarely on Shurmur's shoulders. This was the worst exhibit of offensive playcalling I have ever seen.

Looking at it, no player had a really awful day. The defense was absolutely crushed, but that's to be expected when you come in with practice squad players in your secondary and you then lose two or three more key defensive starters.

This team actually played better than many Cleveland teams in the past. They have the talent. They just don't have a coach.

Hell yes. I mean....there isn't any game that the Browns should not win if they can score 27 points. If they averaged 27 points a game for the season we should expect to go lie 13-2 or 14-2. But when your defense gives up 41 points? Crap.

@hoorta said:

I'll disagree- it's coaching. There ARE talented young players on the Browns. What kind of IDIOT Head Coach takes out a running back who's averaging 5 YPC, and calls an obvious passing play on third and one. Man, you really fooled them there, Pat. If I was the owner, Childress would be HC after halftime.

I thought the same damn thing!! I bet TR would have gained a yard pretty easily the way he was running the ball. And if i remember it correctly, Weeden was picked off on that play, right??

@tour2ma said:

ho... I'm referring to even spending a #4 on him... let alone trading up... one whole spot...

If I "ruled the Browns", I would have traded down and built a team...

But that's me...

We tried that.

How has that worked out?

Richardson was very effective on the ground. I don't know if Shurmur thought he was going to fool the defense, but more often than not he shot himself in the foot.

The offensive line played well. They opened holes and set the edge on arguably the best defensive line in the league, and still we relied on the pass. Richardson was gashing the Giants on every carry, and Shurmur still refuses to use him full time.

This loss falls squarely on Shurmur's shoulders. This was the worst exhibit of offensive playcalling I have ever seen.

Looking at it, no player had a really awful day. The defense was absolutely crushed, but that's to be expected when you come in with practice squad players in your secondary and you then lose two or three more key defensive starters.

This team actually played better than many Cleveland teams in the past. They have the talent. They just don't have a coach.

If I "ruled the Browns", I would have traded down and built a team...

But that's me...

@hoorta said:

OK, I'll play along. 11 on the short side and counting. How many more losses does Shurmur have in the tank? 0-9 at the bye and he's done. I'll predict 0-7 and a loss at Indy will do the trick.

Hell, 5 minutes after the owners approve him, and his first official act is to fire Pat wouldn't shock me in the slightest.

Agree, IF the new owner both:

- knows/likes any of the other staff members enough to give them an audition; and

- does not have his first coach already waiting in the wings.

If the latter is true, then game 16's final gun may as well have a live round, be handed to Patsy with instructions to "Aim at head"...

@miktoxic said:

yeah there is talent on this team. maybe 1/3 of the roster. i saw glimpses of it already today.

guys to keep:

on defense we've got ward and haden who are our young guys in the backfield. skrine blows. patterson shouldn't even be in the nfl. sheard, rubin and taylor no doubt about. winn i saw do somethings today. our LBs besides DQ (who is always hurt) just plain aren't up to snuff.

Winn is a keeper... Hughes has shown a couple flashes... Agree on Sheard and Rubin... Taylor stil seems more suited to NG in 3-4 to me...

Not sold on Ward, he's a hitter, but coverage is a question as is injury proneness.

Thought Patterson played well til hurt...

LB's are weak... DQ was playing well, but now injury bugaboo comes back. Still like Fujita, but more now as a future position coach (and beyond?) than player. Johnson has potential.

offense: i thought the line actually played great....for the first 20 minutes. TR was the only guy that played (at skill position) like he has the talent to play anywhere in the league. norwood caught the ball, gordon caught the ball. little did not. where is cameron? great catch in the 1st qtr and then disappears from the play calling.

Agree on the line... it looked very solid... coordinated even.

Skill wise... no question TR is the real deal... just whether he was worth the picks spent on him vs other needs/ talent available.

As I posted in "Impressions" thread Little threw a great block on Pierre-Paul on a sweep to the left... can't see that he did much else, but encouraging that he is not above blocking. Gordon looked good today... smooth. Norword is a solid #3+ IMO. For missing 2 of our top 3 (IMO) this game, I thougt receiving corps looked good.

TE-wise... I think that's more on QB... I like Cameron, but he's not a "star" TE you design around, so check downs are what will end up coming his way and check down still is not the Wheeeeeeeden way.