oldcow1945 said:

Saying what his future will be is anyone's guess and can be dabated until he goes out proves someone right or wrong.

But to say that it just hype that has got him all these awards and generally known as one of the top, if not the top MLB in the game is ridiculous.

I like him as a Will Linebacker in a 4-3 cover two type of defense. His speed which will run below 4.5 at the combines, cover skills, ability to move laterally as well as any LB and good hands (9INT's in college) will make him a good LB in the right system.

I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

Dead on. You will see here that most who bash Laryngitis also just happen to be Buckeye haters, with the exception of Solon who is whatever he is.

Before the draft we should make a list of those who are so confident Laryngitis will bust and those who think he will make a damn good NFL backer or maybe better. We will only need about half a season to get a decent gauge on him unless he's backing up a Hall of Famer his rookie year. Wilhelm got stuck behind Donnie Edwards for a few years, but although he is a decent backer, he is not in Laryngitis' class.

Hey, I'm a computer guy and farmer, I don't get around much. Most of those guys I never even heard of.

I just consider the percentage of those who made it to the NFL and did much at all, just an expected ratio of

seniors.

and, given that obviously, juniors are all over the first couple of rounds of the draft, I don't see the senior

bowl as being very relevant.

Charlie Frye was considered about a high third rounder before the senior bowl... etc. and after being the games MVP,

he was drafted... in the third round. Just an example.

The real question is, did the senior bowl change any freakin thing about those players listed ?

How often does a senior bowl propel a player to upper rounds because of his play? scouts already know these kids

over the few years in college. A marginal player may boost his stock. But I don't consider that overall relevant.

@calfoxwc said:

but Ngata fizzled at the Senior Bowl, and still is doing fine with the dirty rotten stupid stinkin ratbirds....

But, apparently, the Senior Bowl doesn't have much relevance at all... I came across the 1999 Senior Bowl roster,

just for fun.

Donovan McNabb ! and.... not many players who ever made their mark in the NFL...

(HEY, there's Lennie Friedman of the Browns !)

Interesting Cal! Here's a few of those names that made some degree of NFL impact so there will be some finds in this game; BUT let's also remember Frye was the MVP of this 1 game for what that was worth:

QB-- Donovan McNabb, Syracuse

WR-- Torry Holt, N.C. State

WR-- Kevin Johnson, Syracuse

TE-- Jim Kleinsasser, North Dakota

OL-- Luke Petitgout, Notre Dame

OL-- Mike Rosenthal, Notre Dame

DL-- Joey Porter, Colorado State

DL-- Chad Kelsay, Nebraska

DL-- Mike Rucker, Nebraska

DL-- Aaron Smith, Northern Colorado

DL-- Jared DeVries, Iowa

DL-- John Thornton, West Virginia

DL-- Kelly Gregg, Oklahoma

DL-- Jason Wiltz, Nebraska

LB-- Eric Barton, Maryland

LB-- Gary Stills, West Virginia

LB-- Barry Gardner, Northwestern

DB-- Daylon McCutcheon, USC

DB-- Marcus Washington, Colorado

K-- Martin Gramatica, Kansas State

QB-- Shaun King, Tulane

RB-- Kevin Faulk, LSU

RB-- Terry Jackson, Florida

RB-- Shawn Bryson, Tennessee

WR-- Peerless Price, Tennessee

WR-- Troy Edwards, Louisiana Tech

TE-- Larry Brown, Georgia

TE-- Reggie Kelly, Mississippi State

OL-- Zach Piller, Florida

OL-- Rex Tucker, Texas A&M

DL-- Ebenezer Ekuban, North Carolina

DL-- Anthony McFarland, LSU

LB-- Dat Nguyen, Texas A&M

LB-- Al Wilson, Tennessee

LB-- Mike Peterson, Florida

DB-- Fernando Bryant, Alabama

- Tom F.

You said "not many good players" and I list at least one future hall of famer & several guys who've been to the pro bowl.

Sure, not every guy who played in the '99 Senior Bowl has made it to Hawaii. But how many players in each draft class do?

As usual, you quibble and miss the point.

But yours and Stan's guy, Joe Jermaine, is indicative of the senior bowl being just another game

where some make it, some don't.

Not much relevance.

@calfoxwc said:

but Ngata fizzled at the Senior Bowl, and still is doing fine with the dirty rotten stupid stinkin ratbirds....

Ngata declared as a junior because he wanted to pay for some ill family members' medical treatment. He didn't play in the Senior Bowl.

But, apparently, the Senior Bowl doesn't have much relevance at all... I came across the 1999 Senior Bowl roster,

just for fun.

Donovan McNabb ! and.... not many players who ever made their mark in the NFL...

(HEY, there's Lennie Friedman of the Browns !)

I love the talent on those rosters. Here's a shorter list of guys who've made an impact in the NFL:

• Torry Holt - Hall of Fame receiver
• Joey Porter - elite pass-rusher
• Aaron Smith - phenomenal 3-4 DE
• Kelly Gregg - very good NT for the Ravens
• Mike Rucker - 55.5 career sacks
• Eric Barton - 119 tackles last year
• Jamar Nesbit - starting OG for close to 10 years
• Mike Peterson - 1000 career tackles, 19.5 sacks
• Al Wilson - 712 career tackles, 21.5 sacks
• Kevin Johnson - was a decent receiver for us
• L.J. Shelton - semi-decent NFL RT
• Jim Kleinsasser - utility FB-TE's been in the league for a while
• Luke Petitgout - was the Giants' left tackle until his body gave out
• Ebenezer Ekuban - 36.5 career sacks

but Ngata fizzled at the Senior Bowl, and still is doing fine with the dirty rotten stupid stinkin ratbirds....

But, apparently, the Senior Bowl doesn't have much relevance at all... I came across the 1999 Senior Bowl roster,

just for fun.

Donovan McNabb ! and.... not many players who ever made their mark in the NFL...

(HEY, there's Lennie Friedman of the Browns !)

SENIOR BOWL 1999 ROSTER

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

North

QB-- Donovan McNabb, Syracuse

QB-- Joe Germaine, Ohio State

RB-- Mike Cloud, Boston College

RB-- Autry Denson, Notre Dame

RB-- Devin West, Missouri

RB-- Joel Makovicka, Nebraska

RB-- Rob Konrad, Syracuse

WR-- Darrin Chiaverini, Colorado

WR-- Torry Holt, N.C. State

WR-- Dee Miller, Ohio State

WR-- Craig Yeast, Kentucky

WR-- Darran Hall, Colorado State

WR-- Tai Streets, Michigan

WR-- Kevin Johnson, Syracuse

TE-- Jim Kleinsasser, North Dakota

TE-- Cuncho Brown, Penn State

OL-- Grey Ruegamer, Arizona State

OL-- Luke Petitgout, Notre Dame

OL-- Mike Rosenthal, Notre Dame

OL-- Jeremy Offutt, Oklahoma State

OL-- Floyd Wedderburn, Penn State

OL-- Lennie Friedman, Duke

OL-- Tony Coats, Washington

OL-- Doug Brzezinski, Boston College

OL-- L.J. Shelton, Eastern Michigan

OL-- Anthony Cesario, Colorado State

DL-- Joey Porter, Colorado State

DL-- Chad Kelsay, Nebraska

DL-- Lamar King, Saginaw Valley

DL-- Tom Burke, Wisconsin

DL-- Mike Rucker, Nebraska

DL-- Aaron Smith, Northern Colorado

DL-- Jared DeVries, Iowa

DL-- John Thornton, West Virginia

DL-- Kelly Gregg, Oklahoma

DL-- Jason Wiltz, Nebraska

LB-- Kory Minor, Notre Dame

LB-- Hannibal Navies, Colorado

LB-- Matt Hughes, Iowa

LB-- Eric Barton, Maryland

LB-- Gary Stills, West Virginia

LB-- Barry Gardner, Northwestern

DB-- Daylon McCutcheon, USC

DB-- Eric Edwards, Oregon

DB-- Damon Moore, Ohio State

DB-- Charles Fisher, West Virginia

DB-- Marquis Smith, California

DB-- Ty Talton, Northern Iowa

DB-- Marcus Washington, Colorado

K-- Martin Gramatica, Kansas State

P-- Scott Shields, Weber State

South

QB-- Shaun King, Tulane

QB-- Scott Covington, Miami

QB-- Cade McNown, UCLA

RB-- Kevin Faulk, LSU

RB-- Brian Shay, Emporia State

RB-- James Johnson, Mississippi State

RB-- Terry Jackson, Florida

RB-- Shawn Bryson, Tennessee

WR-- Karsten Bailey, Auburn

WR-- Quincy Jackson, Alabama

WR-- Na Brown, North Carolina

WR-- Jeremaine Copeland, Tennessee

WR-- Travis McGriff, Florida

WR-- Peerless Price, Tennessee

WR-- Troy Edwards, Louisiana Tech

TE-- Larry Brown, Georgia

TE-- Reggie Kelly, Mississippi State

OL-- Derrick Fletcher, Baylor

OL-- Jamar Nesbit, South Carolina

OL-- Zach Piller, Florida

OL-- Chris Terry, Georgia

OL-- Randy Thomas, Mississippi State

OL-- Todd McClure, LSU

OL-- Jason Gamble, Clemson

OL-- Rex Tucker, Texas A&M

OL-- Brandon Burlsworth, Arkansas

OL-- Cameron Spikes, Texas A&M

OL-- Jay Humphrey, Texas

DL-- Montae Reagor, Texas Tech

DL-- Antonio Dingle, Virginia

DL-- Tony Bryant, Florida State

DL-- Adrian Dingle, Clemson

DL-- Ebenezer Ekuban, North Carolina

DL-- Charles Dorsey, Auburn

DL-- Anthony McFarland, LSU

DL-- Russell Davis, North Carolina

DL-- Marcus Spriggs, Troy State

LB-- Dat Nguyen, Texas A&M

LB-- Keith Newman, North Carolina

LB-- Al Wilson, Tennessee

LB-- Mike Peterson, Florida

LB-- Lamont Green, Florida State

LB-- Rod Coleman, East Carolina

LB-- Johnny Rutledge, Florida

DB-- Kelvin Sigler, Alabama

DB-- Tony George, Florida

DB-- Antwan Edwards, Clemson

DB-- Jacoby Rhinehart, SMU

DB-- Chris Cummings, LSU

DB-- Fernando Bryant, Alabama

DB-- Dexter Jackson, Florida State

DB-- Steve Johnson, Tennessee

DB-- Rich Coady, Texas A&M

K-- Chris Sailer, UCLA

K-- Brad Palazzo, Tulane

P-- Daniel Pope, Alabama

Fair enough. But three guys in the past three years have made their way up or into the top 10 based on solid Senior Bowl week performances.

Those guys didn't make a mistake. And if Maualuga plays well enough that Jack Del Rio decides he has to take him at 8, I doubt Rey Rey will think he made a mistake either.

Either way...it doesn't always pay, nor does it pay to get into discussions with you after a few too many beverages and being ticked we are 1 of 5 teams not to go to the Bowl.

I do think it doesn't pay for many to play in these games, and back to my first point....these games are from a bygone era...I don't think they are all that important for top players. They are best for 3rd rounders and below.

@ballpeen said:

You are putting his basement in the 20's.

Never said it's his basement. But you have to deal with likely scenarios. Forecasting based on a patella tendon tear is pretty hard. I mean, how high would the likelihood of that happening have to be for him to give up on the chance to make an additional $15-18M?

And can you give me some names of guys who went to the Senior Bowl projected to be taken in the early teens who had their draft stocks slide? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. On the other hand, Sedrick Ellis ('08), Amobi Okoye ('07), and D'Brickashaw Ferguson ('06) all elevated themselves into or higher into the top 10 with great Senior Bowl week performances.

It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1.

Um, okay...but we were talking about the possibly of him rising 4 draft spots vs. the possibility of dropping 15.

So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then.

I'll let you do your own research. I'm content that the analysis I've put forward is how actual agents & players look at things. Otherwise, Maualuga wouldn't be participating.

The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same.

Last I checked, Maualuga is playing. Laurinaitis is the one who declined an invitation.

My whole analysis, based on the premise that Rey could make it into the top 10, likely doesn't apply to Laurinaitis. But I'm still inclined to believe that he should have accepted the invitation.

I was more disappointed because my boy Chase Daniel sucked it up.

You are putting his basement in the 20's.

It is far easier for a guy like that to drop in to the 100's than it is to go up to #1.

You have to consider how far down a person could go....McGahee was a exception. Sever injuries usually drop top players pretty far.

So... we can split the difference...say he dropped to 50 or so...work the numbers then.

The risk doesn't pay.....and apparently he feels the same.

Let's actually look at the numbers. Using the '08 contracts, a move from 12 to 8 would amount to going from $2.46M/year to $4.76M - a 93.5% dollar increase. If he goes from 12 to 7 ($6.7M), his money increases 172%.

What happens if he falls? Well, the money towards the bottom of the 1st does follow a consistent negative slope. The last pick of the 1st Round, Kenny Phillips, actually received $2.3M/year, only $0.16M/year less than the 12th pick.

To counter for that, let's assume Maualuga slides to somewhere in the mid-20's of the 1st. If you average out the last 12 picks of the 1st Round (picks 20-31), you get $2.16M - only a 12% drop from the per year $ at pick #12.

So the possibility of jumping 4-5 picks clearly justifies risking a 10-15 pick drop.

Come on Al....I never said that. The closest was they might have a bad week or bad game. Look at Daniels yesterday....I didn't see the game, but by all accounts on here is he sure hurt any chance he had of gaining or holding some draft position.

Sure it is about money......but sometimes protecting your position makes you just as much as bettering your position....think about it and you will get the point.

These guys and their agents study things just as much as teams do...they have an idea who is going to draft what....Rey isn't going up to #1 in the draft....and probably isn't falling lower than 12....so then they look at how high they might go with a great showing...if it isn't high enough to justify the gamble of how far they might fall...it isn't worth it.

If the potential gain isn't worth the potential risk....and it's my money....I know which way I go every time.

Think of it as a stock...if the best you can gain is say 10%, and the risk is you might lose 80%....you can say what you want...I know how you are going to conduct your affairs....I don't think you are dumb if you need a little clue.

A.J. Hawk ran a 4.47 on OSU's fast track (though he ran a 4.59 at the Combine).

I'm guessing Malcolm Jenkins is going to run in the low-mid 4.3's at his pro day. Anything slower than that would actually be a disappointment.

Aloysius said:

And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.

I'm sorry. You are right. If he was running a sub 4.5 he'd truly be a freak.

@ballpeen said:

Or he could get hurt during the arduous pre-Combine training, as Wisconsin CB Jack Ikegwuonu did last year. But I don't think players are going to stop trying to shave that hundredth of a second off their 40 times.

Basically, the whole draft process is about being getting as much possible money as you can. If Rey's got a chance to double his (and his agent's) earnings, he's going to go for it.

After all, how many players are going to buy, "You shouldn't play because you might suck"?

If you can move up, you can move down.

First round locks should avoid these games.

Masters said:

Right. There is only one Ray Lewis.

I don't even think JL is a middle guy. I think he's a future Will LB because he is wonderful in open space and a great tackler.

His weakness is shedding blockers. Not good for a Mike or Sam.

oldcow1945 said:

I think too often people judge him purely on what they see on TV. They don't break down tape like college and NFL coaches do. They don't take into consideration the system in which he was used in college as NFL coaches will.

I watched the Michigan game over and over and isolated on him. It was one of the greatest games I have ever seen played by a linebacker. His explosion and pursuit was something special.

I think he's more of a 4.6 guy, though he may run sub-4.5 on OSU's crazy fast track.

And I somewhat agree with your analysis of his play. OLB in Tampa 2 could be a position where he'll flourish. But like Lance Briggs, people will say he's just a product of the system.

Still, there are worse things than drafting a semi-productive linebacker who won't make a lot of mental mistakes.