@the-cysko-kid said:

Like I said. Put a camera on it. There's already case workers. Make them earn their paychecks. Look in on their cases. It doesn't take a genius to see when a "single" mom lives with another adult with an income. It just takes someone caring to look.

Honestly, man. The most likely way this kind of thing would get found out isn't deputizing welfare case workers to investigate housing arrangements, but for someone like you to report them. But even then, it's probably that she's found the loophole in the system and is exploiting it. Now the question would be how you close that loophole without harming the single mothers you're trying to help in the first place.

I'm just saying: you're not the only person who has thought of these types of things.

I'll tell you a story when I have more time.

@vaportrail said:

Except, in the case of reality, less than 2% of the employees are stealing. What kind of oversight would you want such that it justifies the savings?

Like I said. Put a camera on it. There's already case workers. Make them earn their paychecks . Look in on their cases. It doesn't take a detective agency to see when a "single" mom lives with another adult with an income. It just takes someone caring to look.

@heckofajobbrownie said:

But walk me through it, Cysko. I don't think you disagree with the Food Stamp program in and of itself, right? You believe there should be a safety net program to make sure people have something to eat, yes?

I'm not trying to be a dick. (It comes naturally.) I'm just wondering what your concern is and what you want done about it.

I want it to be for the needy and not the greedy. Does that make sense to you? No one will deny there are needy people. But there's also liars scammers and those that simply won't try to help themselves.

@the-cysko-kid said:

So if 50% of the employees of an office steal stationary and the boss looks the other way, but it pisses you off and its bad for the companies' bottom line. Do you report a guy you've known for a long long time even though you know the boss looks the other way, do you report this one guy?

Like I've accused you of before you only see in black and white. What good does it do to report one it two or three people you know well? Maybe instead, you suggest the boss put a camera in the supply room and some of the problem takes care of itself.

Except, in the case of reality, less than 2% of the accused employees are actually stealing. What kind of oversight would you want such that it justifies the savings?

@vaportrail said:

I'm not pretending that it isn't happening. My argument is that it's not happening enough that it's making a significant impact. You disagree. You know people who, in your mind, are fucking the system, yet you do nothing. Curious.

So if 50% of the employees of an office steal stationary and the boss looks the other way, but it pisses you off and its bad for the companies' bottom line. Do you report a guy you've known for a long long time even though you know the boss looks the other way, do you report this one guy?

Like I've accused you of before you only see in black and white. What good does it do to report one it two or three people you know well? Maybe instead, you suggest the boss put a camera in the supply room and some of the problem takes care of itself.

I'm not trying to be a dick. (It comes naturally.) I'm just wondering what your concern is and what you want done about it.

@the-cysko-kid said:

It's true not everyone I know chose to join the military, learn a trade, get a decent job and do the right thing. I'm sure if you descended from the hills and went into some of the lesser areas of L.A. you'd see some people abusing the wonderful system.

It is true. I would. I guess the difference is that I understand that irresponsibility exists, and I'll support efforts to cut down on programs that might be ineffective and encourage it, but I wouldn't make it the entirety of my political philosophy, or imagine it's a really big issue. I'd say, "Being poor and ignorant sure sucks." And I'd move on with my day.

@heckofajobbrownie said:

You guys really seem to be surrounded by boatloads of dirtbags.

It's true not everyone I know chose to join the military, learn a trade, get a decent job and do the right thing. I'm sure if you descended from the hills and went into some of the lesser areas of L.A. you'd see some people abusing the wonderful system.

@vaportrail said:

I think I'll trust the doctors. Even if what you say is true, the drugs still have uses for the basic functioning of other patients.

Also, now that I think about it, where does he get this stuff from? I'm pretty sure the government doesn't give out adderall for free.

Oh yes SSI is a private foundation. He's totally paying for his healthcare. And on top of that since he's got no job, ssi pays his child support for his illegitimate child. Good use!

@the-cysko-kid said:

He's getting free adderall. I have anxiety. Everyone has anxiety. It's the human condition. Trust me this guy is faking it.

I think I'll trust the doctors. Even if what you say is true, the drugs still have uses for the basic functioning of other patients.

Also, now that I think about it, where does he get this stuff from? I'm pretty sure the government doesn't give out adderall for free.

@vaportrail said:

Sertraline is like 7 dollars a month for an individual. If that's something that helps to keep them from offing themselves, I'm not against it. Mental illness is a bitch, and the stigma against it needs to go. Good use of government money. It's not like he's getting free percocet.

He's getting free adderall. I have anxiety. Everyone has anxiety. It's the human condition. Trust me this guy is faking it.

@vaportrail said:

Then why don't you report those people that you know?

Because I'm not a tattle tale vapor. And its harder to turn people in when you have personal relationships with them, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is ok. How about this? I have a childhood friend, perfectly able bodied, named Justin. He's a drunk and a pothead. He works zero hours and collects ssri for "anxiety"

Take your food stamp numbers and find out how many people are on disability for "anxiety" and factor them in.

@the-cysko-kid said:

It's not even and always about the money. It's about right and wrong. Stealing is wrong. It's pretty basic. Why you would see were in a debt crisis where our ship is sinking and you want to turn a blind eye to theft. Especially when your taxes are paying for it. I just don't get that.

Then why don't you report those people that you know?

I usually think you merely feign ignorance to pursue a bicker point.

WSS

Working white people and married women.

Heck would have you believe it's because they are misogynist racists.

I would say that they might resent being accused of causing all the world's ills.

And I suspect they understand that no matter how you punish the rich man you can't begin to pay for the stuff everybody wants.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Not sure if heck is going for the red man or the straw herring.

This isn't simply welfare we're talking about.

Everyone has been crying that Republicans need to reach out to four group that voted big for Obama.

Blacks who would like to see more social programs. Just like heck. Stuff.

Hispanics who would like to see a fast track for friends and relatives living here illegally so they can ride the US gravy train. Stuff.

Single women who want the government to pay for either their contraception or their children.

Stuff.

Young people who want the government to pick up the tab for not only their health care but their college tuition as well.

Stuff.

So Republicans lost by a good margin in those four group.

I'd imagine that the unemployment rate among those group is higher than the average.

So I'd suspect that they would all prefer even longer periods of unemployment pay.

Stuff.

Personally I can't imagine what the Republicans might do short of trying to outbid the Democrats.

I just think that will be impossible regardless of political affiliation.

WSS

I've got to get to work, but this just makes me shake my head.

You really shouldn't fool yourself into thinking that I don't understand this argument, or know what it is. That's the problem - that I know exactly what argument you're making.

You just saved the state of Ohio about $170,000. Not nothing, but not exactly budget balancing material. A few cops work a detail, a new teacher is hired, and there goes your savings.

Okay, now picture that we decide we hate food stamp fraud so super duper much that we're going to create a fraud task force to find these grifters and show them what's what. We hire five accountant investigators to work with Social Services to root out the undeserving in Ohio. I'm sure this would sound good coming out of a politician's mouth, right? You guys would love this proposal.

Okay, five more public employee salaries, ranging from about $70,000 to $90,000 plus benefits, trying to root out food stamp fraud costs the government $1700 per violator...

See my point? In terms of where the government spends its money, or even wastes its money, this isn't the problem. There isn't much money to be found here.

This isn't simply welfare we're talking about.

Everyone has been crying that Republicans need to reach out to four group that voted big for Obama.

Blacks who would like to see more social programs. Just like heck. Stuff.

Hispanics who would like to see a fast track for friends and relatives living here illegally so they can ride the US gravy train. Stuff.

Single women who want the government to pay for either their contraception or their children.

Stuff.

Young people who want the government to pick up the tab for not only their health care but their college tuition as well.

Stuff.

So Republicans lost by a good margin in those four group.

I'd imagine that the unemployment rate among those group is higher than the average.

So I'd suspect that they would all prefer even longer periods of unemployment pay.

Stuff.

Personally I can't imagine what the Republicans might do short of trying to outbid the Democrats.

I just think that will be impossible regardless of political affiliation.

WSS