@diehardbrownsfan said:

Five years ago.

You cut out like 5 lines in the middle there... but whatever

@legacy-fan said:

I know about the parenting variable. My point is comparing results with results. And socio-economic status has plenty to do with it. How many socio-economically fortunate families opt to move into a less S-E fortunate area and send their kid to that school? Answer: Zero.

Thats the point I keep making - you all want to qualify and remove and whatever from the equation. Don't do any of that and tell me where you send your kids.

To a suburban school. Mine are probably going to go to a public one. I know for a fact that Lake Catholic had much less funding and resources and courses to offer than Mentor High. It's a tradeoff between resources and personal attention for me, and I'm not going to pay 20k a year to send kids to a school like Iggy's.

@mld-woody said:

So integrated, regular, and honors/AP courses. Yeah I spent most of my 7th-12th grade with a lot of the same people.

I'm happy I chose not to do that when I was little.

Five years ago.

@westside-steve said:

Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It waste your time and annoys the pig.

Meaning that a teacher with the same qualifications will do worse when teaching stupid kids.

Parents who take the time and bear the expense for paying for their children to go to better schools likely already participate in measures that make those children smarter.

Probably parents who care enough but just can't possibly afford it will have better results as well.

I'm assuming, though you didn't list any, the measures you mean include participating in their children's education.

Grade streaming is the practice of keeping students together through a high school, or even elementary school cycle because of their perceived intelligence and or class.

Usually it is the most apparent and English classes.

Smart kids will be placed with other smart kids and so on down the grade ladder.

WSS

So integrated, regular, and honors/AP courses. Yeah I spent most of my 7th-12th grade with a lot of the same people.

There was an "advanced" group for elementary school that you could have your kid test in to and then they would go to Alan Elementary to take courses with other advanced kids. Over the course of 6 years or so in elementary school being only with other "advanced" kids and being told you were smarter than the normal kids just produced a decent amount of weird and awkward kids in middle school and high school. I'm happy I chose not to do that when I was little.

It waste your time and annoys the pig.

Meaning that a teacher with the same qualifications will do worse when teaching stupid kids.

Parents who take the time and bear the expense for paying for their children to go to better schools likely already participate in measures that make those children smarter.

Probably parents who care enough but just can't possibly afford it will have better results as well.

I'm assuming, though you didn't list any, the measures you mean include participating in their children's education.

Grade streaming is the practice of keeping students together through a high school, or even elementary school cycle because of their perceived intelligence and or class.

Usually it is the most apparent and English classes.

Smart kids will be placed with other smart kids and so on down the grade ladder.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Actually it is fairly simple.

The more poor people in the school, the worse the school will be.

All the teachers get basically the same training and salary but, as you know the old saying about teaching a pig to sing...

In general there are reasons that poor people are poor.

If a child's peer group is poor he will emultat the ways of that group.

1 reason I don't like the fairly common practice of grade streaming.

But take that out of the equation.

1 thing that will make a child more susceptible to being educated is parents who care.

If they care enough to make the sacrifice to send the kids to private school he's already at head of the game.

WSS

What is the saying about teaching a pig to sing?

What's grade streaming?

There are clearly other ways and more productive ways for parents to care about their kids education than just paying money for them to go to a public school.

@westside-steve said:

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2012/02/22/creators_oped/page/full/

Well, at least that had numbers until it trailed off into "God is good" and "Down with Obama and not real America"

Still, Ghoolie said the produce for sure more well rounded people with better morals and standards. Good luck proving that.

Like I said, I'm not surprised they did better on standardized tests for a lot of the reasons Vapor mentioned and because on the state of many urban public schools.

Also, is there a science portion? I wonder what score you get if your answer to all the questions is "God did it" lol.

OK I'm sorry I'm sorry.

The more poor people in the school, the worse the school will be.

All the teachers get basically the same training and salary but, as you know the old saying about teaching a pig to sing...

In general there are reasons that poor people are poor.

If a child's peer group is poor he will emultat the ways of that group.

1 reason I don't like the fairly common practice of grade streaming.

But take that out of the equation.

1 thing that will make a child more susceptible to being educated is parents who care.

If they care enough to make the sacrifice to send the kids to private school he's already at head of the game.

WSS

@mld-woody said:

Ghoolie said they produce better, more well rounded people. Its his job to prove that

http://m.townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2012/02/22/creators_oped/page/full/

@vaportrail said:

"That's your proof"

Really? All that says is that there is a big socio-economic difference between kids in inner cities and kids in the burbs. This doesn't mean that public schools are outright worse. Now, if you compared suburban public against suburban private, I'd bet you'd still see a difference in test scores, but again, you cannot make the assumption that it's because one school provides better education than the other. Again, an unaccounted variable is the parenting. If you're a parent who cares about your kids, the option for private schooling exists, that suggests that those in private schools have parents that are more invested in their kids' lives. On the other hand, if you are a parent who isn't invested in your kid, then the only options are public school or dropping out.

The answer to the question runs much deeper than A provides a better education than B.

I know about the parenting variable. My point is comparing results with results. And socio-economic status has plenty to do with it. How many socio-economically fortunate families opt to move into a less S-E fortunate area and send their kid to that school? Answer: Zero.

Thats the point I keep making - you all want to qualify and remove and whatever from the equation. Don't do any of that and tell me where you send your kids.

Really? All that says is that there is a big socio-economic difference between kids in inner cities and kids in the burbs. This doesn't mean that public schools are outright worse. Now, if you compared suburban public against suburban private, I'd bet you'd still see a difference in test scores, but again, you cannot make the assumption that it's because one school provides better education than the other. Again, an unaccounted variable is the parenting. If you're a parent who cares about your kids, the option for private schooling exists, that suggests that those in private schools have parents that are more invested in their kids' lives. On the other hand, if you are a parent who isn't invested in your kid, then the only options are public school or dropping out.

The answer to the question runs much deeper than A provides a better education than B.

@mld-woody said:

Prove to me homeschooling produces better kids, without getting caught up on run down inner city schools, that's all I ask

1st: It was private school vs public school

2nd: Every study produced starts with that exact qualifier, because of it's weight, and significance. Google it. And that's your proof.

And that's our problem: The majority of Public schools are broken and shit. And because of population density the majority are inner city which gives the explanation behind why public schools are broken and shit.

@westside-steve said:

Or easier still just copy and paste the statements that you think are incorrect, tell us why you think they are incorrect and give us your opinion and challenge the person to substantiate the claim.

Because most of the claims are subjective, especially the one about private schooling being better. You can point out higher test scores on average at private schools, but I'd argue that it's more a function of better parenting than better schooling. When Ghoolie says they produce "more well,rounded people," well, we're going to have to know what he means by that. When a blanket statement is that vague, you take it with a grain of salt. Furthermore, how do you define success? Going to college? The average graduation rate is somewhere around 50%.

@fairhooker11 said:

WHY DONT YOU PROVE THAT THEY DONT? thats all we ask, right?

Or easier still just copy and paste the statements that you think are incorrect, tell us why you think they are incorrect and give us your opinion and challenge the person to substantiate the claim.

YOU do some proving for a change, woodypeckerhead.

@mld-woody said:

Prove to me homeschooling produces better kids, without getting caught up on run down inner city schools, that's all I ask

WHY DONT YOU PROVE THAT THEY DONT? thats all we ask, right?

@calfoxwc said:

Do YOI even know what facts I am trying to you from Ghoolie and friend? woodenbrain

**************************************************************

"YOI" ????

"...am trying TO YOU from..." ??? Seriously?

I contribute plenty. All of us do. Except you.

Oh my god! Typos! That clearly disqualifies anything I might have to say. I'll make sure to do the same with your typos.

You contribute crazy in the form of threads on threads on nonsense from conservative blogs where each thread has like 2 replies and its Bunker proving he's a shit human being then you saying we are in serious trouble.

Its easy to just ignore what I say by saying I don't contribute anything. Really, you don't. Its the same rehashed "liberals cause everything bad I'm the world" message in every post.

Grow the fuck up

@legacy-fan said:

But only with your qualifiers - that favor your side of the argument. So fuck off.

Prove to me homeschooling produces better kids, without getting caught up on run down inner city schools, that's all I ask

@mld-woody said:

I've been asking one of you to prove your point. I haven't heard it yet...

But only with your qualifiers - that favor your side of the argument. So fuck off.

**************************************************************

"YOI" ????

"...am trying TO YOU from..." ??? Seriously?

I contribute plenty. All of us do. Except you.

@calfoxwc said:

Woodpecker - you prove our points about your total lack of honest contribution to this board all the time.

Seriously. why don't YOU Man Up, and have any kind of legit point, and YOU prove YOUR point.

Quiz Time

Do YOI even know what facts I am trying to you from Ghoolie and friend? Or are you just doing your usually non contributing post trying to insult me?

Seriously. why don't YOU Man Up, and have any kind of legit point, and YOU prove YOUR point.

@legacy-fan said:

Yes, which would put "suburbs" public schools fairly evenly matched with private schools. Making your side of the argument easier to make. Which is what you do. Because you're lazy.

I've been asking one of you to prove your point. I haven't heard it yet...