@the-gipper said:

What I should probably do is list the results of the best scoring defenses of all time.

I will see if I can find that....but it is probable that many of them will be early years teams.

It is easier to provide a link to this than to try to recreate the list here, but these are the greatest scoring defenses....only since 1966.

Again, these only go up through 2008.

Also note that this site says that from 1966 to 1977 the NFL operated in a "Dead Ball era" where the rules favored the defense compared to today.

In fact of the top 14 defenses...only 1 has come after 1978..the 2000 Ravens...and the 1985 Bears...considered perhaps the greatest defense of all time is only #15 of the lowest scoring defenses from 1966-2008.

Maybe it adds fuel to Rich's fire: the rules have been changed to favor offense....thus team's that want to win should load up on offensive talent.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-greatest-defenses-the-super-bowl-era/5039/

@hoorta said:

Gip, don't let facts get in the way of a good delusion.

What I should probably do is list the results of the best scoring defenses of all time.

I will see if I can find that....but it is probable that many of them will be early years teams.

Zombo

@the-gipper said:

Here are the stats on the greatest scoring offenses of all time...through 2008...and how they performed in the playoffs:

GREATEST SCORING OFFENSES (all of NFL history) Team Games Points PPG Record Result

1. 1950 Rams 12 466 38.83 9-3 Lost NFL title game

2. 2007 Patriots 16 589 36.81 16-0 Lost SB XLII

3. 1961 Oilers (AFL)14 513 36.64 10-3-1 Won AFL title

4. 1941 Bears 11 396 36.00 10-1 Won NFL title

5. 1998 Vikings 16 556 34.75 15-1 Lost NFC title game

6. 1942 Bears 11 376 34.18 11-0 Lost NFL title game

7. 1983 Redskins 16 541 33.81 14-2 Lost SB XVIII

8. 2000 Rams 16 540 33.75 10-6 Lost NFC wildcard

9. 1967 Raiders (AFL) 14 468 33.43 13-1 Lost SB II

10.1948 Cardinals* 12 395 32.92 11-1 Lost NFL title game*

11.1999 Rams 16 526 32.88 13-3 Won SB XXXIV

12.1951 Rams 12 392 32.67 8-4 Won NFL title

13.2004 Colts 16 522 32.63 12-4 Lost div. playoff

14.1968 Raiders (AFL)14 453 32.36 12-2 Lost AFL title game

15.1984 Dolphins 16 513 32.06 14-2 Lost SB XIX

16.1963 Giants 14 448 32.00 11-3 Lost NFL title game

17.1966 Chiefs 14 448 32.00 11-2-1 Lost SB I

18.1982 Chargers 9 288 32.00 6-3 Lost div. playoff

19.1966 Cowboys 14 445 31.79 10-3-1 Lost NFL title game

20.1958 Colts 12 381 31.75 9-3 Won NFL title

21.1994 49ers 16 505 31.56 13-3 Won SB XXIX

22.2001 Rams 16 503 31.44 14-2 Lost SB XXXVI

23.1948 Eagles 12 376 31.33 9-2-1 Won NFL title

24.1998 Broncos 16 501 31.31 14-2 Won SB XXXIII

25.1948 Bears 12 375 31.25 10-2 Missed playoffs

26.1959 Colts 12 374 31.17 9-3 Won NFL title

27.1953 49ers 12 372 31.00 9-3 Missed playoffs

28.1968 Cowboys 14 431 30.79 12-2 Lost div. playoff

29.2006 Chargers 16 492 30.75 14-2 Lost div. playoff

30.1987 49ers 15 459 30.60 13-2 Lost div. playoff

Here is highest scoring team in Browns history:

42.1960 Browns 12 362 30.17 8-3-1 Missed playoffs

Gip, don't let facts get in the way of a good delusion.

@cdl15 said:

Was being sacastic! I don't wear panties tho!

i know you were being sarcastic. sometimes you have to reply to a like thinking 'character' to have the big bombastic anti-opinion group come after you. (i do that a lot).

i don't wear panties either, just thongs.

@cdl15 said:

We need 32 if it takes 31 to win a superbowl

great thinking true all the way but what's your point?

yes you need a great offense to out-score the other team but a great defense from letting them score more.

wouldn't you rather have a team that scores 24 points (below average of a NFL offensive juggernaut) but hold the other team to 2 field goals (defensive jusggernaut)? that way in the 4th qtr with a minute to go you're not squirming in your little jizz filled panties?

@the-gipper said:

Here are the stats on the greatest scoring offenses of all time...through 2008...and how they performed in the playoffs:

GREATEST SCORING OFFENSES (all of NFL history) Team Games Points PPG Record Result

1. 1950 Rams 12 466 38.83 9-3 Lost NFL title game

2. 2007 Patriots 16 589 36.81 16-0 Lost SB XLII

3. 1961 Oilers (AFL)14 513 36.64 10-3-1 Won AFL title

4. 1941 Bears 11 396 36.00 10-1 Won NFL title

5. 1998 Vikings 16 556 34.75 15-1 Lost NFC title game

6. 1942 Bears 11 376 34.18 11-0 Lost NFL title game

7. 1983 Redskins 16 541 33.81 14-2 Lost SB XVIII

8. 2000 Rams 16 540 33.75 10-6 Lost NFC wildcard

9. 1967 Raiders (AFL) 14 468 33.43 13-1 Lost SB II

10.1948 Cardinals* 12 395 32.92 11-1 Lost NFL title game*

11.1999 Rams 16 526 32.88 13-3 Won SB XXXIV

12.1951 Rams 12 392 32.67 8-4 Won NFL title

13.2004 Colts 16 522 32.63 12-4 Lost div. playoff

14.1968 Raiders (AFL)14 453 32.36 12-2 Lost AFL title game

15.1984 Dolphins 16 513 32.06 14-2 Lost SB XIX

16.1963 Giants 14 448 32.00 11-3 Lost NFL title game

17.1966 Chiefs 14 448 32.00 11-2-1 Lost SB I

18.1982 Chargers 9 288 32.00 6-3 Lost div. playoff

19.1966 Cowboys 14 445 31.79 10-3-1 Lost NFL title game

20.1958 Colts 12 381 31.75 9-3 Won NFL title

21.1994 49ers 16 505 31.56 13-3 Won SB XXIX

22.2001 Rams 16 503 31.44 14-2 Lost SB XXXVI

23.1948 Eagles 12 376 31.33 9-2-1 Won NFL title

24.1998 Broncos 16 501 31.31 14-2 Won SB XXXIII

25.1948 Bears 12 375 31.25 10-2 Missed playoffs

26.1959 Colts 12 374 31.17 9-3 Won NFL title

27.1953 49ers 12 372 31.00 9-3 Missed playoffs

28.1968 Cowboys 14 431 30.79 12-2 Lost div. playoff

29.2006 Chargers 16 492 30.75 14-2 Lost div. playoff

30.1987 49ers 15 459 30.60 13-2 Lost div. playoff

Here is highest scoring team in Browns history:

42.1960 Browns 12 362 30.17 8-3-1 Missed playoffs

GREATEST SCORING OFFENSES (all of NFL history) Team Games Points PPG Record Result

1. 1950 Rams 12 466 38.83 9-3 Lost NFL title game

2. 2007 Patriots 16 589 36.81 16-0 Lost SB XLII

3. 1961 Oilers (AFL)14 513 36.64 10-3-1 Won AFL title

4. 1941 Bears 11 396 36.00 10-1 Won NFL title

5. 1998 Vikings 16 556 34.75 15-1 Lost NFC title game

6. 1942 Bears 11 376 34.18 11-0 Lost NFL title game

7. 1983 Redskins 16 541 33.81 14-2 Lost SB XVIII

8. 2000 Rams 16 540 33.75 10-6 Lost NFC wildcard

9. 1967 Raiders (AFL) 14 468 33.43 13-1 Lost SB II

10.1948 Cardinals* 12 395 32.92 11-1 Lost NFL title game*

11.1999 Rams 16 526 32.88 13-3 Won SB XXXIV

12.1951 Rams 12 392 32.67 8-4 Won NFL title

13.2004 Colts 16 522 32.63 12-4 Lost div. playoff

14.1968 Raiders (AFL)14 453 32.36 12-2 Lost AFL title game

15.1984 Dolphins 16 513 32.06 14-2 Lost SB XIX

16.1963 Giants 14 448 32.00 11-3 Lost NFL title game

17.1966 Chiefs 14 448 32.00 11-2-1 Lost SB I

18.1982 Chargers 9 288 32.00 6-3 Lost div. playoff

19.1966 Cowboys 14 445 31.79 10-3-1 Lost NFL title game

20.1958 Colts 12 381 31.75 9-3 Won NFL title

21.1994 49ers 16 505 31.56 13-3 Won SB XXIX

22.2001 Rams 16 503 31.44 14-2 Lost SB XXXVI

23.1948 Eagles 12 376 31.33 9-2-1 Won NFL title

24.1998 Broncos 16 501 31.31 14-2 Won SB XXXIII

25.1948 Bears 12 375 31.25 10-2 Missed playoffs

26.1959 Colts 12 374 31.17 9-3 Won NFL title

27.1953 49ers 12 372 31.00 9-3 Missed playoffs

28.1968 Cowboys 14 431 30.79 12-2 Lost div. playoff

29.2006 Chargers 16 492 30.75 14-2 Lost div. playoff

30.1987 49ers 15 459 30.60 13-2 Lost div. playoff

Here is highest scoring team in Browns history:

42.1960 Browns 12 362 30.17 8-3-1 Missed playoffs

@rich4eagle said:

No the Steelers loaded with talent and defunct of coaching used two first round picks in the last five years because the offense line sucked. But before that NO OL guy was a first rounder for a decade or so.......one other thing genius the stterlers been drafting 28 or lower for the last five years............while the Browns been drafting OL guys in the top five.........we passed on Peterson for Joe Thomas HOORAY FOR NOTHING

the Steelers if drafting as high as the Browns would have been drafting skill players or impact defense players with the first pick

dumb as dumb is the Browns fandom as represented by your astute non astute alibi for being stupid drafting OL guys which the Browns have done for years

My belief is that the fact is that the quality of the Steelers play over many years has little to do with how well they drafted....but how well they coached who they did draft.

Yes, a BR may be a plum of a pick, but primarily they have won because of their defensive coordinator.

I am of the opinion that there offensive personell have been adequate....but their defensive coaching....given whatever personell they have....is what has made that team for ever so long.

@the-gipper said:

Belichik is NOT a defensive coach.

OK.

Zombo

Yes, OK, sure. He is a HEAD coach. Every head coach in my view should be neither an offensive or defensive coach, but should have capabilities in both arenas.

Bill Belichick WAS a defensive coach....a defensive coordinator.

But yes, every defensive coach should know enough about offense to stop it....and every offensive coordinator should know enough about defense to defeat it...so when a guy becomes a HC he should have knowledge of both.

I can tell you that when BB first came here he was by NO means competent at running an offense. He was terrible in fact.

But I will say that he has learned, and certainly is now a "balanced" coach that puts his time in being the CEO of his team by having his thumb in all aspects of it, offens/defense/special teams.

Biil Belichick figured it out a long time ago.........but when you are charged with defense you do defense..........when he became head coach it all became about offense scoring and defense being solid........and if you do not understand that which Browndom seems to reject as always.......you become what we are losers focused on defense and offensive lineman and suck year after year

@the-gipper said:

If the Browns take OG Chance Warmack with their first round pick....please take all sharp objects away from Rich and move him to a padded cell for his own good

(Nevertheless....I don't understand this incongruity on your part Rich. One of your 6 or 8 favorite teams, the Steelers, used like 3 of their last 5 first round draft picks on offensive linemen, didn't they?)

No the Steelers loaded with talent and defunct of coaching used two first round picks in the last five years because the offense line sucked. But before that NO OL guy was a first rounder for a decade or so.......one other thing genius the stterlers been drafting 28 or lower for the last five years............while the Browns been drafting OL guys in the top five.........we passed on Peterson for Joe Thomas HOORAY FOR NOTHING

the Steelers if drafting as high as the Browns would have been drafting skill players or impact defense players with the first pick

dumb as dumb is the Browns fandom as represented by your astute non astute alibi for being stupid drafting OL guys which the Browns have done for years

@the-gipper said:

If the Browns take OG Chance Warmack with their first round pick....please take all sharp objects away from Rich and move him to a padded cell for his own good

(Nevertheless....I don't understand this incongruity on your part Rich. One of your 6 or 8 favorite teams, the Steelers, used like 3 of their last 5 first round draft picks on offensive linemen, didn't they?)

Not to worry I gave up on the dumbest management and dumbest fans in football a few years ago

I am hopeful that Jimmy Haslem gets it and so he is showing he does...........meanwhile as usual for 17 years I get to tell all I told you so............and then get persecuted with lies as to why I was wrong

some folks get it big time, I been fortunate to have vision and knowledge, meanwhile I deal with morons who say the damndest things to make sure winning remains elusive

@rich4eagle said:

you remain a football moron and the Browns likelly will start winning because it seems Haslem gets it, unfortunately you an asshole and stupid will never get it....... The browns pandered to idiots like you for twenty years, hopefully your dumbass days are over and then you can proclaim like the idiot you are that offense wins championships and hope all the other dumbasses like you forgot all your other dumbass statements

If the Browns take OG Chance Warmack with their first round pick....please take all sharp objects away from Rich and move him to a padded cell for his own good

(Nevertheless....I don't understand this incongruity on your part Rich. One of your 6 or 8 favorite teams, the Steelers, used like 3 of their last 5 first round draft picks on offensive linemen, didn't they?)

@rich4eagle said:

Bottom line buddy is Super Bowl champs score 31 points and that number is going up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so it is offense that wins championships or be a loser defending losers who think otherwise and OL guys are a dime a dozen

I hope Offensive Linemen are a dime a dozen....then maybe we can get some real good ones real cheap.

Whatever they cost...get good ones.

@rich4eagle said:

Yeah defensive coaches, that is funny like Belichick with the most prolific offense in football for a decade and Coughlin who needed Eli to make two miracle throws to win two championships and OH YEAH Tomlin who won shit except for Ben's Miracle one minute 95 yard drive

your post is hilarious and humorous and of course stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you cannot see the obvious,,,,,,,,,,,go with the Dawg Pound and OL guys and lose for twenty more years

Har har. Bellichick is an offensive genius because he happens to have Tom Brady on his team- a guy who we can now safely put into the "greatest of all-time" conversation.

Incidentally the Patriots won that game because their "dime a dozen" offensive line kept Brady pretty much untouched by Houston's stud defense, including defensive player of the year JJ Watt. Sure, you can find your big fat dumb o-line guys in the lowerer rounds- you find the GREAT ones there about as often as you find a GREAT RB like Arian Foster or a GREAT WR like Marquis Colston. And Rich, if you can't tell the difference between a Clady or Thomas from the stiffs, you don't know jack shit about o-line play, sorry. Speaking of- that's another reason the Pats won- their DEFENSE shut Foster down until the game was out of hand, and the Texans DEFENSE didn't have anyone that could cover Wes Welker worth a damn.

Speaking of Welker- he's not making those catches if Brady is lying on his back looking up at the sky. Adrian Peterson isn't rushing for 2,000 yards if he doesn't have stud #4 overall pick Matt Kalil opening up running lanes for him. Yes Rich Pro personnel guys get it- o-line is damn important that's why top o-line guys get drafted in the first round every freaking year. Sad to say, you'll never get it though. So just keep on repeating your mantra.

FYI Patriot's O-line.

Nate Solder- FIRST ROUND

Logan Mankins- FIRST ROUND

Sebastian Vollmer- SECOND ROUND

Yup that Bill Bellichick sure is a DUMBASS drafting all those guys so high to keep Brady healthy, Right? He should just pray he gets damn lucky (he did) finding a couple of UFAs to fill the other two spots.

Instead of drafting a qb and a WR first in 99 they drafted solid linemen and defense.

13 yrs now and all we needed was one WR or a qb or maybe a rb to run thru the gapping hole produced by Ross verba and womack.

how god damn obvious it was we needed more points. cause when ur defense ranks in the bottom five every year u should just try to get in a shootout every game.

I suppose Matt kalli had nothing to do with petersons record season either.

@miktoxic said:

what a total dick.

obviously you gotta score points douchefuckingbag. but if your defense doesn't stop the other team from scoring 32 points then YOU FUCKING LOSE.

get it now dimwit??

and another thing you old fucking squirrel, nobody is a dime a dozen in the NFL. so quit spewing that out your old-knarled-one-tooth-cum-breathed-mouth.

biggest asshole at a tailgate. you should be proud of yourself.

you remain a football moron and the Browns likelly will start winning because it seems Haslem gets it, unfortunately you an asshole and stupid will never get it....... The browns pandered to idiots like you for twenty years, hopefully your dumbass days are over and then you can proclaim like the idiot you are that offense wins championships and hope all the other dumbasses like you forgot all your other dumbass statements

@rich4eagle said:

Bottom line is Super Bowl champs score 31 points and that number is going up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so it is offense that wins championships

what a total dick.

obviously you gotta score points douchefuckingbag. but if your defense doesn't stop the other team from scoring 32 points then YOU FUCKING LOSE.

get it now dimwit??

and another thing you old fucking squirrel, nobody is a dime a dozen in the NFL. so quit spewing that out your old-knarled-one-tooth-cum-breathed-mouth.

biggest asshole at a tailgate. you should be proud of yourself.

@rich4eagle said:

For the first 35 years the Browns focused on what wins, OFFENSE. Then we invented this dumbaassed Dawg Pound crap and began a 22 year losing streak. Time after time we hired a defensive genius and focused on winning in the trenches and defense wins championships. We drafted fat ass dumb D line guys and useless LB's with one picks not to mention a bevy of OL guys who lead us nowhere

Meanwhile I repeated over and over Offense wins championships with numbers only to be pissed on by fools, and that OL guys are a dime a dozen

Funny how my wisdom is proving greater daily........

and now we have an owner who gets it despite stupid fans stupid coaches and dimwit philosophies

Offensive skill players who touch the ball are the key to winning vastly so for the QB

The Browns will rise again and soon

Meanwhile the detractors can piss on what it is but it is what it is..........again over and over

@rich4eagle said:

For the first 35 years the Browns focused on what wins, OFFENSE. Then we invented this dumbaassed Dawg Pound crap and began a 22 year losing streak. Time after time we hired a defensive genius and focused on winning in the trenches and defense wins championships. We drafted fat ass dumb D line guys and useless LB's with one picks not to mention a bevy of OL guys who lead us nowhere

Meanwhile I repeated over and over Offense wins championships with numbers only to be pissed on by fools, and that OL guys are a dime a dozen

Funny how my wisdom is proving greater daily........

and now we have an owner who gets it despite stupid fans stupid coaches and dimwit philosophies

Offensive skill players who touch the ball are the key to winning vastly so for the QB

The Browns will rise again and soon

Meanwhile the detractors can piss on what it is but it is what it is..........again over and over

archive this post it will be sage wisdom

@the-gipper said:

Honestly....I don't care if it is offense or defense that wins championships.

I only care if we win championships.

And I don't care if it is done via the '85 Bears/2000 Ravens/2005 Steelers method of monster defenses

...or if it is done 1999 Rams/2010 Packers style of track meet offense

...or if it done the usual way of both powerful offense and powerful defense....like the Browns/Packers/Steelers/49ers/Cowboys/Patriots dynasties were put together.

I guess I like the Al Davis method: Just Win, Baby

Bottom line buddy is Super Bowl champs score 31 points and that number is going up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so it is offense that wins championships or be a loser defending losers who think otherwise and OL guys are a dime a dozen

@hoorta said:

There's exceptions to the Rule Rich, like the '85 Bears and the '00 Ravens. Incidentally- the Ravens starting LT in the SB was a high first round pick, so please can the OL are dime a dozen argument. Sure- every GM and player personnel guy in the NFL should be fired for drafting these guys high. In more recent history, two of the Giant's Lombardi's are due to the fact their defense was good enough to keep Tom Brady in check.

Yup, want to be good for a long time- just find yourself another Brady or Montana.

Your are right Hoorta once every twenty five years defense wins championships,,,,,,,,,,we should focus on defense so maybe we can twice each 50 years