@rich4eagle said:

not to pee on your august data work but Otto Graham only played ten years............And I know he won seven Championships............so how did he lose four

You are right. I double checked and he was 7-3, not 7-4. The Browns lost that 1957 championship game with Tommy O'Connell at QB.

meanwhile to detract from my great friend Ghoolie.........sorry, winning is the QB's job and Otto won more than anyone

I can use your logic against Unitas and Montana and just about anyone but Bradshaw

so it is what it is............Automatic Otto was a winner of the greatest degree.........followed by Montana

But don't forget Bart Starr...the only QB besides OG with 5 titles. 5-1

@the-gipper said:

This subject comes up once in a while: who would you put on your Mt. Rushmore of Quarterbacks.

And it is timely again because Tom Brady is going to be trying to make his 6th Super Bowl appearance...which would be a record for that event....though not for overall history.

Of course, in doing this, one thing that is always looked at is that person's overall records, plus their record in championship game appearances. Here is the list of the top prospects for that mountain and their title game records:

Otto Graham: 7 wins 4 losses

Bart Starr: 5 wins 1 loss

Sid Luckman: 4 wins 1 loss

Joe Montana: 4 wins 0 losses

Terry Bradshaw: 4 wins 0 losses

John Unitas: 3 wins and either 2 or 1 loss (depends on if you count the 1968 SBIII in which he replaced Earl Morrall

Tom Brady: 3 wins 2 losses

Bobby Layne: 3 wins 1 loss

Troy Aikman: 3 wins 0 losses

John Elway: 2 wins 3 losses

Roger Staubach: 2 wins 2 losses

Norm Van Brocklin: 2 wins 2 losses

Jack Kemp: 2 wins 2 losses

Len Dawson: 2 wins 1 loss

Bob Griese: 2 wins 1 loss

Ben Roethlisberger: 2 wins 1 loss

Arnie Herber: 2 wins 1 loss

Jim Plunkett 2 wins 0 losses

Eli Manning: 2 wins 0 losses

Tommy Thompson: 2 wins 0 losses

George Blanda: 2 wins 0 losses

Others to consider:

Sammy Baugh 1-4

Brett Favre 1-1

Kurt Warner 1-2

Joe Theisman 1-1

Frank Ryan 1-1

Peyton Manning 1-1

YA Tittle: 0-4

Jim Kelly: 0-4

Fran Tarkenton: 0-3

Dan Marino: 0-1

Who gets on the Rock?

not to pee on your august data work but Otto Graham only played ten years............And I know he won seven Championships............so how did he lose four

meanwhile to detract from my great friend Ghoolie.........sorry, winning is the QB's job and Otto won more than anyone

I can use your logic against Unitas and Montana and just about anyone but Bradshaw

so it is what it is............Automatic Otto was a winner of the greatest degree.........followed by Montana

If you deny a guy that is 5-1 or 4-1 you can certainly deny one that is 4-0.

Starr 5-1

Luckman 4-1

Montana 4-0

Bradshaw 4-0

What you have there are 4 of the guys that "presided" over some of the greatest dynasties in history.

If Brady goes to 4-2...is that better than 4-0?

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

Otto Graham, taking all day to throw, hitting wide open receivers.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmGSBRbVshpxFxerA1x_IgWbvZx4?p=otto+graham+passing+video&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701

Way ovr rated in my book.

Is "your book" Give a Mouse a Cookie?

@king-ghoolie-lives said:

Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Peyton Manning

People who are 4 - 0 in chapionship games can't be denied.

If otto Graham played today, his face would look worse after a practice. He would have a hard time starting for any modern NFL team and had physica; performance characteristics not different from Colt McCoy.

If you put Coly McCoy back in Ottos shoes, he would have done just as well, maybe better. Whe you look at the films of Otto, he took all day to thrown and his recievers were wide open. You wont find accuracy at all anywhere near the pinpoint passes these guys throw today.

If Otto was put up, people would throw eggs at him.

It is foolish to try to compare QBs across eras. Besides, I think you are dead wrong in any case. Otto's stature was about the same as Joe Montana's...and certainly his mental capacity was the equal.

We have QBs today that are not giants. I mean, would you rather have the shortish Drew Brees or the the big, tall, strong Jamarcus Russell?

And the last time I saw Brady throwing his receivers were wide open and he had all day to throw.

Also...the current QBs have the advantage of current training, nutrition, coaching etc. etc.

If OG were playing now, he too would have those similar advantages...and given his capabilities would probably have thrived.

@the-gipper said:

I don't know if you were around to watch them both play. I was. I will say this: The Colts were far more dependent on Unitas for their success than the Steelers were dependent on Bradshaw.

At least that is my perception.

I know I didn't see Unitas in his prime. I was at the 20-3 Colts win over the Browns in a 1971 playoff game, but was only 8 years old then. I'm not a witness to the 60s era (or earlier) at all, I just know he's among the greats at QB from reading & seeing old highlights.

I know Bradshaw was the beneficiary of the Steel Curtain, etc., by for my 2 cents, beating Oakland, Dallas, Minnesota, & even Houston's good Oiler teams in the playoffs is pretty darn good.

@bob806 said:

Damn guys...as much as I hate the Steelers, I'd replace Unitas with Bradshaw. Your other 3 I can certainly agree with.

The only reason I write Bradshaw over Unitas isn't because Unitas was a slouch, it's that when Bradshaw got to the end, he won them all. Additionally, when Bradshaw wasn't playing and they went with Hanratty & Gilliam, the Steelers didn't do squat. In fact, I think Gilliam was actually the starter in 1974, Bradshaw won his job back, and they went on to the Superbowl.

Man, that sucked to write it, lol.

I don't know if you were around to watch them both play. I was. I will say this: The Colts were far more dependent on Unitas for their success than the Steelers were dependent on Bradshaw.

At least that is my perception.

The only reason I write Bradshaw over Unitas isn't because Unitas was a slouch, it's that when Bradshaw got to the end, he won them all. Additionally, when Bradshaw wasn't playing and they went with Hanratty & Gilliam, the Steelers didn't do squat. In fact, I think Gilliam was actually the starter in 1974, Bradshaw won his job back, and they went on to the Superbowl.

Man, that sucked to write it, lol.

Zombo said:

I think Manning and Brady both belong on there if you are just choosing the four greatest QBs of all-time. But I prefer to take one from four different eras each, so I go:

Graham-Unitas-Montana-Brady

Zombo

Great minds think alike.

Graham

Unitas

Montana

Brady

But then how do you leave off Bart Starr/Bradshaw/Elway.

Perhaps in the case of the first two you can say: those TEAMS were so full of talent, that the QB was a mere cog in the engine, while the 4 I mention were the fuel that fired the engine.

I know of no other way to distinguish these guys.

Graham-Unitas-Montana-Brady

Zombo

This picture will be used for Otto.

Warren Moon

Vinny Testaverde

Drew Brees

Drew Bledsoe

Dan Fouts

Kerry Collins

Dave Kreig

Note that only Brees has won a title, the one he appeared in. Bledsoe and Collins QBed losing SB teams. Only those in italics are current Hall of Famers.